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I am one of the many that has just had their account sold to Cabot by Citi.

The only response I had to my CCA request from Citi was the letter a few people got that said they don't have to send me a CCA as they are not chasing the account etc etc. Not heard anything from them in over a year, then the letters from Cabot. So I sent the bemused letter to Cabot in response to them writing to me saying that they had my account now. I also enclosed a telephone complaint letter at the same time as they are calling all the time.

 

They responded to my letter of complaint, saying they were looking into it, the calls stopped for a short while but have now started again. They have not responded to my letter saying that the account is in dispute, instead they have sent me a letter saying that I have not contacted them at all and that they will have to " move my account to the next stage". So they are pretending they didn't get my letter - even though it was signed for and they have responded to the letter that was enclosed with it...

 

Any ideas if I should write to them again and tell them that I know they got my letter and ask when are they going to respond to it? Or should I do something else?

 

Any help greatly appreciated as always!

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Standard DCA practice in my experience, ignore any disputes raised, and continue as normal by trying to instill a sense of fear (i.e. the text "move your account to the next stage"), uncertainty and harass an account holder.

 

These companies are bottom feeders, normally they'll purchase an account for 10-15% of the balance and then try and claim the full amount, if they meet resistence they'll tempt you by offering you 30-40% off the full balance. Anything to make money.

 

It might be an idea to read or printout this, it's pretty invaluable when dealing with such companies, the OFT Debt Collection Guidance:

 

http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/business_leaflets/consumer_credit/oft664.pdf

 

First of all phonecalls, if you have no wish to talk to them do not answer there security questions, simply answer "No" when they ask you to confirm them. You don't have to comply with them in anyway if you don't want, it's your choice, you are the one with the power. (I would get into what money really is, which is empowering, but thats maybe for another time)

 

Should they ignore your letters in which you have expressed that you do not wish to be contacted by phone, and there calls are frequent (i.e. could amount to harassment) they'll normally stop if you say that you'll report them to the Office Of Fair Trading, and follow through with the threat if they persist.

 

Enquiries and Reporting Centre

Office of Fair Trading

Fleetbank House

2-6 Salisbury Square

London EC4Y 8JX.

 

If that doesn't do the trick, Trading Standards has the ability to prosecute them under the Administration Of Justice Act 1970. Get in touch with your local trading standards department and request their assistance.

 

Type your postcode into the following site for your local TS department:

http://www.tradingstandards.gov.uk/advice/index.cfm

 

With regard to your letter stating that the "account is in dispute" if they have signed for it, they have received it. I would be tempted to sit tight and see what threat they make next - there are a lot of people in the same boat with Cabot so I would make contact with others in the same boat and you can help one another should the need arise.

 

Alternatively you could contact Cabot stating that you refer them to your letter of xx/xx/2010 (insert date) in which you stated that the account was in dispute, and is confirmed as being received and signed for on xx/xx/2010 (insert date). I would like to reaffirm that I would like all future contact in writing only as I have no intention of discussing these matters over the phone, should you decide to ignore such request there is cause for complaint with the Office Of Fair Trading or Trading Standards. Additionally I withdraw the implied right of access for any visit to my property, meaning that any such visit would consitute unlawful trespass.

 

"The only response I had to my CCA request from Citi was the letter a few people got that said they don't have to send me a CCA as they are not chasing the account etc etc"

 

Interesting, myself and a number of others (the_shadow) received this letter as well. It's funny as such a statement in respone to a s78(1) CCA request is legally binding (I forget the section though can look). No doubt they continued to add interest and charges after you put the account into dispute, and received the said letter. Cause enough for complaint/dispute, but standard Citi procedure in my experience.

 

If you have household insurance, normally you can get legal insurance in with the policy. These normally provide upto £1 million of cover to have legal representation to provide a defence which could be handy if needed.

 

I don't think Cabot will go to court in these cases though, as if they instigated a claim you can file a CPR 31.16 to view the original executed agreement. My belief is that Citi have a lot of problems with their executed agreements (i.e. signed contracts) hence why they have doggedly resisted giving out copies to customers. Certainly in my personal instance Trading Standards secured the release of mine, and surprise, surprise missing prescribed terms - that rendered it unenforceable.

 

If a claim was forthcoming, you could take a copy of any executed agreement as they would be reliant on it to seek an enforcement order if the alleged debt is not acknowledged. We can then study it.

 

Should it not be legally compliant (missing prescribed terms) then any defence could include this as a defence, a court is precluded from making any enforecement order if the executed agreement was signed prior to April 2007 by virtue of the Consumer Credit Act. If in the unlikely event it is compliant then it would be time to reach an arrangement with the creditor before it reaches county court.

 

In this process we have never been seeking to "avoid debt" as it was termed to me on one occasion. We are seeking to see whether the executed agreement is properly executed, in the instance it is not the agreement/contract is next to useless, allowing the account holder a lot of scope to reach a mutually agreeable resolution to the account.

 

Always keep in mind that Cabot paid 10-15% of the balance to purchase it. Banks also have the capacity to create money from nothing through their balance sheets, and with use of fractional reserve lending.

 

Hope this info is of help.

 

And most importantly don't worry, don't let them instill fear, it's time that people took their power back.


Advice offered by ENRON is without prejudice and is for your judgement as to whether to take it. You should seek the assistance or hire of a solicitor or other paid professional if in doubt.

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Thank you so much for your post Enron. It's really helpful to me and i'm sure many others. I think i'm going to sit and wait for their next move on this one. I will post any developments, I am sure that there will be much further discussion about this topic! Thanks again.

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Hi,

I am another one on the Citi/Cabot roundabout. I never did CCA Citi, I sent them a SAR and when they didn't send back my agreement, I complained. The excuses were

1; The agreement does not come under personal data??

2: They had no obligation to supply me a CCA as the account is closed??

 

I did CCA Cabot in October 2008 and I am still waiting so you could well be in the same boat as me.


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The way that Citi used to do it, was provide the details you entered on your application form, just plain text and not a copy of the form itself.

 

You have to ask yourself, why go to the trouble of typing that information out when providing a copy of the form would be much quicker. As with Citi in much of their dealings, don't expect them to ever be straight forward with you.

 

If Citi was still the creditor at the time you submitted your SAR request, they were still obliged to send you a copy/or at least the details. Me thinks they were trying to wriggle off the hook with that one.


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No Enron, they weren't the creditor at the time. I was just trying to get details of default/termination info which they never supplied either. Surprised? No, me neither


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I have it on good authority that Citi don't issue termination notices, likewise they can be hit and miss with their default notices.

 

I'm thinking of making a Mini-Cabot Fan Club thread and stickying it here, so that those in the same boat can help one another.


Advice offered by ENRON is without prejudice and is for your judgement as to whether to take it. You should seek the assistance or hire of a solicitor or other paid professional if in doubt.

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Advice offered by ENRON is without prejudice and is for your judgement as to whether to take it. You should seek the assistance or hire of a solicitor or other paid professional if in doubt.

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I have it on good authority that Citi don't issue termination notices, likewise they can be hit and miss with their default notices.

 

.

When I get back, I will post the two letters up on the new fan club page (one from Citi-t'other from Cabot) saying citi don't send out NoA's and one from Cabot saying they issue the NoA's


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I have it on good authority that Citi don't issue termination notices, likewise they can be hit and miss with their default notices.

 

I'm thinking of making a Mini-Cabot Fan Club thread and stickying it here, so that those in the same boat can help one another.

 

Oh yes, default on CRF but no default received :-D

 

S.


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I was always of the belief that sending out a Default Notice was a necessary legality to be able to mark an account as "Defaulted". Essentially to allow the account holder enough time (should they choose) to pay arrears to bring the account back into the black.

 

I.e. No default notice, no lawfully registerred default against the account.

 

But as many of us Citi customers know from experience, this company does not deal in a fair and honest manner if it is not to their benefit. An example from my dealings with them, being told in writing that the Terms & Conditions were the executed agreement by the then Data Controller.... which obviously is not the case.

 

With regard to assignment, whilst I have found no direct mention of it as yet, I believe the onis would be for the original creditor to inform the account holder. Followed by the new creditor to make themselves known.

 

1st Credit in my case provided me with a lovely photoshopped piece of paper with all the Citi details, shame that the registered company address hadn't been used for 8 months, it had the 1st Credit barcode included, used the Sunderland address which was Citi's loan business and not credit cards, arrived in a 1st Credit envelope. (Of course they never admitted to their artistic efforts).

 

Ultimately DCAs purchase accounts for between 10%-15%.


Advice offered by ENRON is without prejudice and is for your judgement as to whether to take it. You should seek the assistance or hire of a solicitor or other paid professional if in doubt.

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In the case of assignment s136 of the property act just states that:

 

Law of Property Act section 136.

Legal assignments of things in action.

— (1) Any absolute assignment by writing under the hand of the assignor (not purporting to be by way of charge only) of any debt or other legal thing in action, of which express notice in writing has been given to the debtor, trustee or other person from whom the assignor would have been entitled to claim such debt or thing in action, is effectual in law (subject to equities having priority over the right of the assignee) to pass and transfer from the date of such notice

 

I have down in my reference file that the relevant cases are:-

Van Lynn Developments Ltd v Pelias Construction Co Ltd [1969] 1 QB 607

Denney, Gasquet and Metcalfe v Conklin [1913] 3 KB 177

W F Harrison & Co Ltd v Burke and another - [1956] 2 All ER 169

and a new one mentioned today which probably takes precedent as its supreme court Roberts (FC) (Appellant) v Gill & Co Solicitors and others (Respondents) -[2010] UKSC 22

I'll have to read up on the last one myself tonight. Wowzers its heavy going... HERE

 

S.

Edited by the_shadow

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Deal with your debts:

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IMPORTANT: Please take my advice in the spirit it is given and on the basis that I am expressing my opinion, These opinions are not endorsed by CAG in anyway and are offered informally without prejudice or warranty of any kind. These opinions are solely based upon the knowledge I've gained from this fantastic site and life in general. I have NO legal training.

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I also read on another website that if the creditor cannot prove a Notice of Assignment was received by the debtor then the assignment isn't absolute-only equitable


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CABOT

 

Hi Everyone I am new on this forum signed up today :-). I am in the intial stages of trying to get defaults removed from my credit file, and have sent out the first intial letters as suggested on other threads. I have been reading through the mass of information on this sight and find the information overwhelming. I have received a reply from CABOT financial and thought this thread may be a good opportunity for me to get some much needed advice. They purchased the debt from Barclaycard (formerly Monument) and have stated they will be sending me a copy of the credit agreement after they have received it from Barclaycard. However, they have stated they do not hold a copy of the default notice as it was issued by Monument, and that Monument registered the default on my credit file on 28th Dec 2005 and upon assigment of my account, there entry was removed and replaced with an identical entry in CABOT'S name. Also that under the CCA there is no requirement for CABOT to provide me a copy of the default notice!!!!!

Obviously they can't as it was not issued by them, after reading some information surely to change a default into another companies name is unlawful? Or am I wrong? Can anyone give me any advice as how to respond as I want to ensure I get it right. Thanks Michelle:???:(sorry for the length of post)

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Send them a letter saying CITI are in DEFAULT of your CCA request by XXXX months/YEARS, dont contact me again until this request is fulfilled, Consumer credit act etc etc

 

I did this last month with them and they have gone away, There just some bottom of the food chain debt agency thats bulk purchased a load of CITI debt last month

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Hi Macmiddle, thank you for your reply. Cabot have purchase the debt from Barclaycard (formally monument) but this was the only post I could find which seemed applicable. The problem is I contacted them, as I am trying to get the default removed from my credit file. My partner and I want to purchase a house but with this and other defaults I can't get a mortgage. They have stated they do not hold a copy of the default notice as it was issued by Monument, and that Monument registered the default on my credit file on 28th Dec 2005 and upon assigment of my account, there entry was removed and replaced with an identical entry in CABOT'S name. If they didn't issue the default surely they can't just put it in there name as they purchased the debt from Monument?. Also they stated that there is no requirement under the CCA for Cabot to provide me with a copy of the default? Any advice what I should do now would be appreciated. Thanks :-)

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Hi there, just to update on this.

I had a letter from Cabot eventually, in the short, saying that a copy of my CCA had been sent to me by Citi when I originally requested it ( not so of course). Did anyone else get that response to their CCA request etc?

So since then I have not taken much notice of the continued requests for payment and calls etc. Had a letter today from Cabot threatening legal action etc. " Last opportunity to contact us" etc etc. I am 95% sure that they don't have a contract for me or it would have been sent to me by now I think. Anyway, would it be a good idea for me to SAR them now do you guys think? I am pretty sure that this would not get to court but want to make sure I do this all the right way. I'm hoping that they will get fed up if this goes on for say another year and take a low full and final off me maybe...

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Hi there, just to update on this.

I had a letter from Cabot eventually, in the short, saying that a copy of my CCA had been sent to me by Citi when I originally requested it ( not so of course). Did anyone else get that response to their CCA request etc?

So since then I have not taken much notice of the continued requests for payment and calls etc. Had a letter today from Cabot threatening legal action etc. " Last opportunity to contact us" etc etc. I am 95% sure that they don't have a contract for me or it would have been sent to me by now I think. Anyway, would it be a good idea for me to SAR them now do you guys think? I am pretty sure that this would not get to court but want to make sure I do this all the right way. I'm hoping that they will get fed up if this goes on for say another year and take a low full and final off me maybe...

 

Just state plainly that you deny the CCA response from CITI was sufficient for a s78 request as per the ruling in Carey vs HSBC and therefore the s78 remains outstanding and the account is in dispute.

 

S.


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Thanks for that, going to send them a copy of the previous account in dispute letter I sent them and add in a version your comments at the top etc.

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Hi,

 

So I sent off a letter saying that the account was still in dispute etc and they have sent back a letter that says that they have already addressed " my concerns regarding your request for information under the CCA 1974" and that they are now taking "further collections proceedings".

 

From this latest letter I can assume that these people are either very unorganised or just trying to be as confusing as possible. They say in this letter " thanks for your letter dated xxx" Then say that they have had no response from me in regards to their correspondence...

 

They also say that they have enclosed a copy of their response to my CCA request - but they didn't. I did get this originally but it was nothing but waffle saying that Citi had already given me a copy of my CCA etc..

 

So any thoughts on what - if anything I should do next? They clearly have no CCA for me and are avoiding the issue... Many thanks

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Hi,

 

So I sent off a letter saying that the account was still in dispute etc and they have sent back a letter that says that they have already addressed " my concerns regarding your request for information under the CCA 1974" and that they are now taking "further collections proceedings".

 

From this latest letter I can assume that these people are either very unorganised or just trying to be as confusing as possible. They say in this letter " thanks for your letter dated xxx" Then say that they have had no response from me in regards to their correspondence...

 

They also say that they have enclosed a copy of their response to my CCA request - but they didn't. I did get this originally but it was nothing but waffle saying that Citi had already given me a copy of my CCA etc..

 

So any thoughts on what - if anything I should do next? They clearly have no CCA for me and are avoiding the issue... Many thanks

 

Ok, as mentioned in my previous reply did it meet the requirements of carey vs HSBC, namely did the document they send back contain the the core details plus prescribed terms PLUS your address at the time it was taken out??? Also if there were amendments/variations to the original agreement then Carey states the original or a copy of the original must be sent alongside the varied cca.

 

If it did then yes they MAY continue...

 

S.


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The CAG is a free help site,should you be offered help that requires payment,please report it to site team.

 

Deal with your debts:

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***** SERIOUSLY IN DEBT, DONT KNOW WHAT TO DO, TRY NationalDebtLine's MoneySteps *****

 

 

IMPORTANT: Please take my advice in the spirit it is given and on the basis that I am expressing my opinion, These opinions are not endorsed by CAG in anyway and are offered informally without prejudice or warranty of any kind. These opinions are solely based upon the knowledge I've gained from this fantastic site and life in general. I have NO legal training.

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Just had a look through your thread, and it appears that they have now purchased the account from Citi.

 

As such, they are duty bound as the now creditor to provide you with a copy of the documents you have requested. Asserting that Citi have provided you with these is not sufficient - they have to comply with your legal request.

 

It sounds as if you have received a template letter, their reference to "further collection proceedings" is most likely a threat. It may be worth noting in any future correspondence that you "withdraw the implied right of access for Cabot or any agent on it's behalf to set foot on your property, any such contravention would be an unlawful tort of trespass". (that should settle doorstep visits, Cabot can be sued for trespass if they ignore it).

 

It's unlikely that they would proceed with action, however if they were to there are lots of area of attack most noteably a pre-action request to view the original executed agreement.

 

Out of interest when did you apply for your Citi account?


Advice offered by ENRON is without prejudice and is for your judgement as to whether to take it. You should seek the assistance or hire of a solicitor or other paid professional if in doubt.

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Subbing


CAPITAL ONE (O/H!): Won £1864.63 including contractual :D

GE MONEY: WON £266.00

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