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Issued an unfair caution!


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Hi

 

I would normally take my motorbike to school on days of fair winds due to the massive bus pass fee (which may i add has still not arrived months after my form was sent!), annoyingly my motorbike broke down the other morning so my step dad gave me a lift in on his motorbike. I have a horse to look after in a near by town (i would usually take the train or the motorbike to get there after school, weather providing). Then from my horse's field i get a lift back from my mum who works near by, on this occasion i had no money on me and due to my lack of motorbike i had to take the train without ticket, the ticket is usually around £2.10, i have had an on the spot fine of £20 before, this time i was caught and told i would only be cautioned due to my valid excuse of not having any other way home, (I do not have a seasonal ticket to send in by the way). However i received a letter today telling me i would be taken to court for not buying a ticket. What will happen, and how much will it cost?

 

Thanks

 

Sean

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I know some people might think it harsh Sean, but the rail companies do not have any obligation to carry anyone who has not paid and cannot pay on demand. The same is true of all transport undertakings

 

The position is that any person who has neither a valid ticket nor means to pay, has no right to board any train.

 

Because you say you have received a letter advising that you face a Summons to Court I am guessing that you are over 18 and the best thing you can do it to write back with a full apology, offer to pay the fare and the reasonable costs that have been incurred by the rail company and ask if they will allow this matter to be settled without the need for Court action.

 

Good luck.

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Receiving a Caution & being cautioned are 2 very different things.

It appears that you did not receive a Caution for the offence but were actually cautioned & interviewed.

It appears a clear case of fare evasion that you will struggle to get out of, read the miriad of threads on here & compose a letter to the prosecutors.

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I agree, I don't think it was an unfair caution, more to the point might have been a let down in communication when being spoken to by the Staff. I'm assuming it was staff you spoke to, Sean, and not a Police Officer? Either way, it would appear somebody would like to prosecute for an alleged offence, so you can only really contact the prosecuting party as has been said.

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No one has answered 'how much will it cost'.

 

Probably becuase we do not know. The prosecuting company will be aware of your previous penalty fare, and have in front of them the Inspector's statement. However it ends up, they will want 'the fare'. If it goes to Court, they will want a contribution to prosecution costs, typically £110.00. In Court, there would also be a fine. This depends on the nature of the offence, whether there are aggravating or mitigating features to the incident. Typically, fines vary between £100.00 and £350.00, but they do vary. A standard £15.00 victim surcharge is always added.

 

How much a railway might settle for will also vary. Write to them and ask if they are prepared to settle. If they are, they will tyell you what they want. Don't forget, the ball is in their court, they do not have to settle.

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Old Codja comments on your age. I think he is alluding to the idea that railways don't prosecute 'minors'.

 

For various reasons, I spend a certain amount of time in Youth Courts. Our local railway prosecutes Youths too.

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Well to a certain extent Wriggler7, (I too have prosecuted Youths, but very rarely for a first case of fare evasion.)

 

It was more the fact that the OP had receieved warning of impending prosecution at the first letter stage.

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Old Codja comments on your age. I think he is alluding to the idea that railways don't prosecute 'minors'.

 

For various reasons, I spend a certain amount of time in Youth Courts. Our local railway prosecutes Youths too.

From experience, TOCs tend only to prosecute at Youth Courts if the offender in question is somewhat persistant, as I believe Old CodjA has said.
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agree entirely, your individual situation was not and never would be construed as a valid reason for not having a ticket or the means to buy one.

I have to also point out a fare of £2.10 sounds like a short-ish journey really: was it impossible to walk it?

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Hi

 

I would normally take my motorbike to school... (i would usually take the train or the motorbike to get there after school, weather providing).

 

Forgot to point out before Sean that in terms of mitigation (let alone your completely invalid excuse of having no other way home- if there'd been a Taxi rank there, would you have demanded he take you for nothing?!) that although you say you 'normally take [your] motorbike to school' you then say 'i would usually take the train'.

 

This tells us (notwithstanding your previous Penalty Fare for dare we assume, a similar thing?) that you travel by trains and therefore know and understand the contract you enter into on entering a station...

 

...a minor point because not travelling by trains and therefore 'not knowing' is equally no 'valid' excuse; many passengers favour claiming 'I don't get trains' to which the obvious answer is 'Do you drive?' to which the usual answer is 'Yes'; the conclusion drawn tends to be 'What would happen if you were caught without MOT/ Licence/ on a double yellow??!!'

 

Just examples above of what NOT to say Sean... if it aint already.

 

Bon chance! :wink:

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  • 5 weeks later...

"Forgot to point out before Sean that in terms of mitigation (let alone your completely invalid excuse of having no other way home- if there'd been a Taxi rank there, would you have demanded he take you for nothing?!) that although you say you 'normally take [your] motorbike to school' you then say 'i would usually take the train'."

 

Note the words weather providing! Then use your brain, if I've taken the bike, to school, i'm going to be taking it, from school. If i have,'t taken the bike, to school, then I don't have a bike to take from school so I'm going to take the train, hence why the words, weather providing, prevent this from being a self contradictory statement. With the added fact that the part that says: I would normally take my motorbike to school. Does not say anything about how I get home from school.

 

Just for the matter, no, no you may not assume that the previous penalty fare was for a similar thing.

 

As it happens, after since having my summons i have spoken to a solicitor who has told me that case in going to almost certainly be thrown out due the fact the ticket officer was foreign, can't speak English, and thinks a 16 yeah old bloke who has said he just came from school, is a 24 year old bloke who just came from school, I.E. he got my date of birth so awfully wrong it significantly changes my financial state.

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"almost certainly be thrown out due the fact the ticket officer was foreign, can't speak English"

 

Does this "solicitor" also work for the BNP? What grounds are they for having a case thrown out? May have a valid point on the DOB!

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"Forgot to point out before Sean that in terms of mitigation (let alone your completely invalid excuse of having no other way home- if there'd been a Taxi rank there, would you have demanded he take you for nothing?!) that although you say you 'normally take [your] motorbike to school' you then say 'i would usually take the train'."

 

Note the words weather providing! Then use your brain, if I've taken the bike, to school, i'm going to be taking it, from school. If i have,'t taken the bike, to school, then I don't have a bike to take from school so I'm going to take the train, hence why the words, weather providing, prevent this from being a self contradictory statement. With the added fact that the part that says: I would normally take my motorbike to school. Does not say anything about how I get home from school.

 

Just for the matter, no, no you may not assume that the previous penalty fare was for a similar thing.

 

As it happens, after since having my summons i have spoken to a solicitor who has told me that case in going to almost certainly be thrown out due the fact the ticket officer was foreign, can't speak English, and thinks a 16 yeah old bloke who has said he just came from school, is a 24 year old bloke who just came from school, I.E. he got my date of birth so awfully wrong it significantly changes my financial state.

 

What train co employs front line staff that can't speak English?

 

My other observations on this are that you own a motorbike and a horse which suggests that you are hardly 'on the bread line'. I don't buy the fact that you had a 'valid excuse' for not having any means to get home other than the train because the simple fact of the matter is that you would make sure that you were adequately prepared for 'bad weather' scenarios by carrying sufficent funds on you in case you have to take the train. I take it you have a mobile phone so as your mother 'works close by', could'nt you of contacted her to obtain some help?

 

Sorry but from your account, I cannot see any 'valid excuses' here to persue solicitor or not. My advice (which has already been given) is to write a nice applogetic letter to the prosecutors. As for the DOB issue; Unless you showed proof of your DOB and the inspector took the details incorrectly from that, you would need to prove that you didn't provide the incorrect info. All the 'non-English' inspector would have to say is that is the DOB you provided... thats assuming the JP will understand him!

 

Please Note

 

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

 

I would always urge to seek professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

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"almost certainly be thrown out due the fact the ticket officer was foreign, can't speak English"

 

Does this "solicitor" also work for the BNP? What grounds are they for having a case thrown out? May have a valid point on the DOB!

 

 

i did find this mildly amusing,

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I'm begging to get the vibe that everyone on here is a total...

 

I came on here to find out the extent of my fine.

 

Not be ridiculed as to how valid my "excuse is" so unless anyone has anything useful to say, please, find someone else to preach your crap to.

 

The thread is mainly labeled as it is to attract attention.

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I'm begging to get the vibe that everyone on here is a total...

 

I came on here to find out the extent of my fine.

 

Not be ridiculed as to how valid my "excuse is" so unless anyone has anything useful to say, please, find someone else to preach your crap to.

 

The thread is mainly labeled as it is to attract attention.

 

After that I think you will be waiting a long time for further advice. My suggestion was in all honesty, your best option based on what you have stated. If you think you have been 'ridiculed' on your situ, wait till you get in front of a magistrate!

 

Please Note

 

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

 

I would always urge to seek professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

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i did find this mildly amusing,

 

You may find it amusing but I do not think you or your Solicitor would if he/she was foolish enough to raise that as a defence.

 

You ask how much it would cost and that is the reason you came here. If you done it properly it would have cost you £2.10. Now it will undoubtedly cost you or your parents a lot more.

 

Also you state you usually use your "Motorbike" I presume as you are 16 you mean a Moped, if not you may find yourself in further trouble in the future!

 

As SRPO stated if you ask questions on an open forum then don't expect the answer to suit your situation. Anything stated in this thread is accurate. It may not be what you want to hear but sometimes and as you are young it can be forgiven it is better to hold your hands up and just say fair cop!!

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yet again, another useless answer, and no i do not mean a moped, i mean a motor bike there is a difference and i am well aware of it, i am in ownership of a motorbike, it just happens to have a small engine (technically it's a slightly larger engine however it is restricted and fully road legal, and completely legal for me to ride, just to clear that one up)

 

when i asked about fee's i meant the fine i am likely to be given, not the train fair i don't appreciate being patronized, i;m well aware of how much the train costs.

 

i'm not banking on technicalities causing the case to fall through that would be lovely however

 

if you do happen to know how much the fine is going to be (roughly) i'd appreciate it, if not, please spare yourself the time writing back.

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"You may find it amusing but I do not think you or your Solicitor would if he/she was foolish enough to raise that as a defence."

 

apologies, my comments about amusement was in regard to the comment made about the BNP.

 

before any other stabs are made at me for this i have no particular views on the BNP and if i did i wouldn't fling them around forums in which i would possible cause and unwanted argument.

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Sean,

 

Your query about possible fine amounts was answered in post #5 of this thread.

 

S.

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I'm begging to get the vibe that everyone on here is a total...

 

I came on here to find out the extent of my fine.

 

Not be ridiculed as to how valid my "excuse is" so unless anyone has anything useful to say, please, find someone else to preach your crap to.

 

The thread is mainly labeled as it is to attract attention.

 

Hi guys. I strayed onto this thread today and have to say it's been highly entertaining. I'm not sure which planet the OP inhabits. And as for a ticket inspector who doesn't speak English, I do wonder about someone who can't write it intelligibly.....

 

My best, HB

Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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