Jump to content
  • Tweets

  • Posts

    • what rights of access do you have on your agreement with the landlord?   i suspect you shouldn't have to pay a thing.
    • then there is your proof to them why would you pay for BB twice!!   for my notes: GENERAL NOTES ON CHARGEBACK & Continuous Payment Authority & BACS   .....  We have been telling people to put a letter into their bank instructing them  not to make any payments under any circumstances to these companies  . http://whatconsumer.co.uk/visa-debit-chargeback/- it works! usually this should be done using the number on your debit card  .  banks MUST follow written intructions from their customers ! . CANCELLING YOUR DEBIT CARD DOES NOT STOP CPA'S  .  This fsa guide has now been updated:  . http://www.fsa.gov.uk/static/pubs/consumer_info/know_your_rights_guide.pdf http://www.fca.org.uk/news/continuous-payment-authorities-your-right-to-cancel https://www.fca.org.uk/consumers/unauthorised-payments-account  .  Here's the text:  .  Cancelling a regular  card payment:  .  When you give your credit or debit card details to a company and authorise them to take regular payments from your account,   such as for a gym membership or magazine subscription,  it is known as a ‘recurring transaction’ or ‘continuous payment authority’.  . These are often confused with direct debits, but do not offer the same guarantee if the amount or date of the payment changes.  .  In most cases, regular payments can be cancelled by telling the company taking the payments.   .  However,   you have the right to cancel them directly with your bank or card issuer by telling it that you have stopped permission for the payments.   Your bank or card issuer must then stop them – it has no right to insist that you agree this first with the company taking the payments.  .  Be aware, though, that you will still be responsible for paying any money that you owe. and that CANCELLING YOUR CARD WILL NOT STOP THE CPA  .  ..  .  New june 2013  .  Regulator orders Banks and mutuals to review complaints about not cancelling recurring payments from November 2009.  .  Consumers who have set up a regular payment from their account will now be able to successfully cancel that arrangement   by contacting their card provider, the Financial Conduct Authority said.  .  The FCA has been examining how easy it is for customers to cancel Continuous Payment Authorities (CPAs)   due either to payday lendersicon or for other regular payments such as subscriptions or gymicon memberships.  .  CPAs, which are also commonly called recurring transactions or recurring payments,   are relatively easy to set up but can be hard to cancel, causing problems for consumers trying to manage their finances,the FCA said.  .  Now, following the FCA review of how the largest high street banks and mutuals process requests to cancel CPAs, they have agreed that they will ensure that when   a customer asks for a recurring payment to end, that will be sufficient to cancel the arrangement. They have also confirmed that should a payment go through by   mistake following cancellation by a customer the customer will be refunded immediately.  .  In addition to securing this commitment, the largest banks and mutuals have agreed to review every individual complaint they have received about the non-  cancellation of a CPA and to pay redress where payments have continued to be made despite the customer cancelling the arrangement. This applies to all complaints   since November 2009 when the Financial Services Authority, the FCA’s predecessor, began regulating banking conduct.  .  Clive Adamson, the FCA’s director of supervision, said: “It’s important that consumers are confident that banks are meeting their everyday banking needs. Today   customers can be confident that when they ask for a Continuous Payment Authority to be cancelled – it will be cancelled - and that it can be done easily.   . “We recognise that historically this is an area where some customers have struggled but the banks and mutuals have responded positively to our work on this issue.   From now on we expect them to be getting this right. In addition, they have committed to review past complaints.” .  .  Also mentioned your displeasure that as whomever took your money had obviously attempted this many times   probably activating your banks own anti fraud software - nobody had the decency to inform my you this was going on.? .  .In the FSA's own words:  .  ..  What should I do about a payment from my account that I didn’t authorise?  .  Your bank must refund an unauthorised transaction.   Money can only be taken from your account if you have authorised the transaction   or if your bank can prove you were at fault –  . see below.  Contact your bank immediately if you notice an unauthorised payment from your account. .  If you are sure you did not authorise the payment, you can claim a refund.  .  However, your bank does not have to refund you if you do not tell it about the payment until 13 months  or more after the date it left your account.  .  Your bank must refund an unauthorised transaction  .  ------------------  .  Your bank may only refuse a refund for an unauthorised transaction if:  .  ? it can prove you authorised the transaction  – though your bank cannot simply say that use of your password,   card and PIN proves you authorised a payment; or .  ? it can prove you are at fault because you acted fraudulently,   or because you deliberately,   or with gross negligence, failed to protect the details of your card, PIN or password in a way that allowed the transaction  .  -----------------------  .  How quickly must my bank refund me for an unauthorised transaction?  .  The bank must make the refund immediately unless it has evidence that one of the above reasons applies.   Your bank may ask you to answer some questions and fill out a form confirming what has happened,   but it cannot delay your refund while it waits for you to return the form.  If the bank has evidence that one of the above reasons for refusing a refund applies,   it may investigate before making a refund   but must look into it as quickly as possible.   If your bank rejects your claim for a refund it should explain why.  If the transaction was on a credit card, the refund may not happen immediately.   But the card issuer cannot charge interest or ask for repayment of the amount unless it can prove you are liable to pay        
    • Nearly £1.5bn of government cash is yet to be dished out to struggling businesses. View the full article
    • Only asking because I want to get my facts right before I approach the bank! Yes, BT is coming out of the same account.
  • Our picks

    • Curry’s cancelled my order but took the money anyway. Read more at https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/423055-curry%E2%80%99s-cancelled-my-order-but-took-the-money-anyway/
      • 11 replies
    • Father passed away - Ardent Credit Services (Vodafone) now claiming he owes money. Read more at https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/423040-father-passed-away-ardent-credit-services-vodafone-now-claiming-he-owes-money/
      • 9 replies
    • Currys Refuse Refund F/Freezer 5day old. Read more at https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/422656-currys-refuse-refund-ffreezer-5day-old/
      • 6 replies
    • Hi,  
      I was in Sainsbury’s today and did scan and shop.
      I arrived in after a busy day at work and immediately got distracted by the clothes.
       
      I put a few things in my trolley and then did a shop.
      I paid and was about to get into my car when the security guard stopped me and asked me to come back in.
       
      I did and they took me upstairs.
      I was mortified and said I forgot to scan the clothes and a conditioner, 5 items.
      I know its unacceptable but I was distracted and Initially hadn’t really planned to use scan and shop.
       
      No excuse.
      I offered to pay for the goods but the manager said it was too late.
      He looked at the CCTV and because I didn’t try to scan the items he was phoning the police.
       
      The cost of the items was about £40.
      I was crying at this point and told them I was a nurse, just coming from work and I could get struck off.
       
      They rang the police anyway and they came and issued me with a community resolution notice, which goes off my record in a year.
      I feel terrible. I have to declare this to my employer and NMC.
       
      They kept me in a room on my own with 4 staff and have banned me from all stores.
      The police said if I didn’t do the community order I would go to court and they would refer me to the PPS.
       
      I’m so stressed,
      can u appeal this or should I just accept it?
       
      Thanks for reading 
      • 16 replies
Vincenzoo

Was late producing ticket - now they want to take me to court - help!

style="text-align:center;"> Please note that this topic has not had any new posts for the last 3598 days.

If you are trying to post a different story then you should start your own new thread. Posting on this thread is likely to mean that you won't get the help and advice that you need.

If you are trying to post information which is relevant to the story in this thread then please flag it up to the site team and they will allow you to post.

Thank you

Recommended Posts

I left my season ticket behind one day and was stopped and issued with a penalty fare ticket. I was told if I produce my ticket I wouldn't have to pay the fine. He didn't mention I had 21 days to do so and I sent it in late.

 

Revenue Protection then refused my appeal and fined me £60. I wrote saying it was unfair and now they've sent me a summons to court!

 

Given that I had paid the fare so am not avoiding paying for my travel it seems grossly unfair. Less like revenue protection and more like extortion.

 

Any ideas? Should I go to court? Or is that madness?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It was wrong of the Revenue Protection Staff to say you wouldn't have to pay the PF if you produced your season ticket in the first place, as unfortunately you had already commited a byelaw offence (18.1) for failing to be able to produce a ticket for your journey on demand. Although it may seem unfair to you, these time limits of appeal are in place in order to remain consistant in all cases of appeal. How long did you think you had to produce your ticket? Surely the normal thing to do would be produce it as soon as you located it? At least that way IRCAS or IPSS (think that's what the latter is...) could reject your appeal but still only make you liable for the Penalty Fare!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
It was wrong of the Revenue Protection Staff to say you wouldn't have to pay the PF if you produced your season ticket in the first place, as unfortunately you had already commited a byelaw offence (18.1) for failing to be able to produce a ticket for your journey on demand. Although it may seem unfair to you, these time limits of appeal are in place in order to remain consistant in all cases of appeal. How long did you think you had to produce your ticket? Surely the normal thing to do would be produce it as soon as you located it? At least that way IRCAS or IPSS (think that's what the latter is...) could reject your appeal but still only make you liable for the Penalty Fare!

 

Thanks for the response. To be honest I forgot about it, which is why I sent proof of my ticket in late. It is still proof of purchase, whether it's within their entirely arbitrary time limit or not. It strikes me that Revenue Protection should be about protecting revenue not generating income from fares that have already been paid. I'm guilty of forgetfulness but I feel I am being mugged here.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Thanks for the response. To be honest I forgot about it, which is why I sent proof of my ticket in late. It is still proof of purchase, whether it's within their entirely arbitrary time limit or not. It strikes me that Revenue Protection should be about protecting revenue not generating income from fares that have already been paid. I'm guilty of forgetfulness but I feel I am being mugged here.
What would you have done had the RPI/A just charged you the full single fare for your rail journey and not chosen to PF you? Probably wouldn't have liked it much, as no doubt in your opinion you should have been given the benefit of the doubt. The point I'm trying to make here is that what ever amount you were charged, to you it would have looked like you were being mugged. Unfortunately people do try and play the system like this, and the RPA/I was just playing it safe with the Penalty Fare. Had he/she had any doubt as to whether you intended to defraud the company, then they would have gone straight down the unfortunate road that you seem to have gone down now.

 

21 days is 21 days, and it's the same with most appeals processes I'm afraid.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To be honest, I would have accepted a single fare but wasn't given that option. It would have been £3.10. I still had to buy a ticket for the rest of my journey so the railway is already up on the deal. I appreciate it's my own stupid fault, but it is absurd to have to pay so much for, well, nothing. It seems like opportunistic money making from honest passengers to me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
To be honest, I would have accepted a single fare but wasn't given that option. It would have been £3.10. I still had to buy a ticket for the rest of my journey so the railway is already up on the deal. I appreciate it's my own stupid fault, but it is absurd to have to pay so much for, well, nothing. It seems like opportunistic money making from honest passengers to me.

Unfortunately I can't really offer any advice that you'll like the sound of, and I'm pretty sure it'll be the same with the other members. Presumably it's the TOC that sent you the summons to court? What did the summons say? Whatever happens now, it's likely to cost you I'm afraid. What train company is this, out of interest?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The summons came directly from the Magistrates Court. It states I was unable to produce a season ticket and did not respond to their letters, though it does include a copy of my letter, which was sent after the 21 day limit. I guess it would have been Southeastern Trains as it was at Waterloo East. Am expecting a child within days yet am expected to fork out £128.10 for a £3.10 fare I had already paid. My fault and they are within their legal rights but that doesn't mean it's morally right. I wonder what revenue they are protecting when there is no revenue missing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They are probably just trying to recoup their costs from administering a system of checking tickets that should have been shown on the day but due to your actions wasnt.

Personally I dont think it will proceed at court IF you have later produced a valid ticket for the journey concerned.

(Lots of people produce a ticket either not theirs or purchased after being stopped in the mis-guided belief that will be ok).

Even if it did, a bench is likely to give you an absolute discharge with either no or very small costs awarded.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

p.s. Stigy its byelaw 18(2).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The summons came directly from the Magistrates Court. It states I was unable to produce a season ticket and did not respond to their letters, though it does include a copy of my letter, which was sent after the 21 day limit. I guess it would have been Southeastern Trains as it was at Waterloo East. Am expecting a child within days yet am expected to fork out £128.10 for a £3.10 fare I had already paid. My fault and they are within their legal rights but that doesn't mean it's morally right. I wonder what revenue they are protecting when there is no revenue missing.
What I was trying to say was actually who was the TOC and did they speak to you via the mail at all? So just how long has this been going on for? If you've been summonsed to court it must have been dragging out for some time? There's one of two things you can do now, you can either try and settle the matter out of court, or go to court and plead either guilty or not guilty. Where did the £128.10 come from? Is that how much you'll have to pay to keep the matter out of court?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
It was wrong of the Revenue Protection Staff to say you wouldn't have to pay the PF if you produced your season ticket in the first place, as unfortunately you had already commited a byelaw offence (18.1) for failing to be able to produce a ticket for your journey on demand. Although it may seem unfair to you, these time limits of appeal are in place in order to remain consistant in all cases of appeal. How long did you think you had to produce your ticket? Surely the normal thing to do would be produce it as soon as you located it? At least that way IRCAS or IPSS (think that's what the latter is...) could reject your appeal but still only make you liable for the Penalty Fare!

Some TOC's do have a policy where you will be issued a nil paid PF if you are a season ticket holder and have 21 days to provide a photocopy of your season, only 2 such occasions are allowed in any 12 month period though.


Views expressed in this forum by me are my own personal opinion and you take it on face value! I make any comments to the best of my knowledge but you take my advice at your own risk.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Some TOC's do have a policy where you will be issued a nil paid PF if you are a season ticket holder and have 21 days to provide a photocopy of your season, only 2 such occasions are allowed in any 12 month period though.

Well, you learn something new every day I guess!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Indeed they do; and from the OP's point of view, what makes it worse is that some TOC's will refund any subsitute tickets bought during the validity of the Season.

 

So would have cost him NOTHING in the long run.

 

To Vincenzoo:

 

What reason box was ticked on the PF? 'Fail to carry Season Ticket'?

 

What period was it valid for- your Season I mean?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry, but what does TOC stand for?

 

To Grotesque: Yes, the Notice said 'Failure to carry season ticket (not weekly).

 

Though it was in fact, a weekly.

 

Will write a statement in mitigation to the clerk of the Court, including a bank statement proving that the ticket was mine, and see where it takes me.

 

Thanks for all your comments, everyone.

 

To Stigy: The £128.10 comes from the outstanding fare 'avoided' and the sum of £125 which is claimed as a contribution towards the prosecution costs.

 

It's bonkers if it goes to court.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sorry, but what does TOC stand for?

 

To Grotesque: Yes, the Notice said 'Failure to carry season ticket (not weekly).

 

Though it was in fact, a weekly.

 

Will write a statement in mitigation to the clerk of the Court, including a bank statement proving that the ticket was mine, and see where it takes me.

 

Thanks for all your comments, everyone.

 

To Stigy: The £128.10 comes from the outstanding fare 'avoided' and the sum of £125 which is claimed as a contribution towards the prosecution costs.

 

It's bonkers if it goes to court.

TOC = Train Operating Company

 

Shouldn't the outstanding fare be the single for the journey you had made? I know that the PF was initially £20, then subsequently incurred the £60 on top of that, but the amount they are taking you to court for shouldn't be that of a weekly ticket, surely? Or am I completely missing the point? The season ticket box being ticked was probably the most appropriate.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For further reading, look at the case of Eastern Counties Railways v Woodard. An annual season ticket holder is required to show a ticket the same as any other passenger.

 

Passengers must carry their ticket, and must show it on demand. The Inspector will have heard about cases where 'boyfriend' uses 'girlfriend's ticket' to get out of the station, 'girlfriend' says 'I have left my ticket at home'. It happens. Maybe not in this case, but that is why railways will take a 'hard line' with failure to show train tickets.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 Caggers

    No registered users viewing this page.


  • Have we helped you ...?


×
×
  • Create New...