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    • it is NOT A FINE.....this is an extremely important point to understand no-one bar a magistrate in a magistrates criminal court can ever fine anyone for anything. Private Parking Tickets (speculative invoices) are NOT a criminal matter, merely a speculative contractual Civil matter hence they can only try a speculative monetary claim via the civil county court system (which is no more a legal powers matter than what any member of Joe Public can do). Until/unless they do raise a county court claim a CCJ and win, there are not ANY enforcement powers they can undertake other than using a DCA, whom are legally powerless and are not BAILIFFS. Penalty Charge Notices issued by local authorities etc were decriminalised years ago - meaning they no longer can progress a claim to the magistrates court to enforce, but go directly to legal enforcement via a real BAILIFF themselves. 10'000 of people waste £m's paying private parking companies because they think they are FINES...and the media do not help either. the more people read the above the less income this shark industry get. where your post said fine it now says charge .............. please fill out the Q&A ASAP. dx  
    • Well done on reading the other threads. If ECP haven't got the guts to do court then there is no reason to pay them. From other threads there is a 35-minute free stay after which you need to pay, with the signs hidden where no-one will read them.  Which probably explains why ECP threaten this & threaten that, but in the end daren't do court. As for your employer - well you can out yourself as the driver to ECP so the hamster bedding will arrive at yours.  Get your employer to do that using the e-mail address under Appeals and Transfer Of Liability.  
    • good you are getting there. Lloyds/TSb...i certainly would not be risking possible off-setting going on if a choice were there, but in all honestly thats obv too late now..., however..you might not never be in that situation so dont worry too much. regardless to being defaulted or not, if any debt that is not paid/used in 6yrs it becomes statute barred. you need to understand a couple of things like 'default' and 'default notice' a default is simply a recorded D in the calendar section/history of a debt, it does not really mean anything. might slightly hit your rating. the important thing here is a default notice , these are issued by the original creditor (OC) under the consumer credit act, it gives you 14 days to settle whatever they are asking, if you don't then they have the option to register a defaulted date on your credit file. that can make getting other credit more difficult. and hits your rating. once that happens, not matter what you do after that, paying it or not or not paid off or not, the whole account vanishes from your credit file on the DN's 6th b'day. though that might not necessarily mean the debt is not still owed - thats down to the SB date above. an OC very rarely does court and only the OWNER of a debt can instigate any court action (Attempted a CCJ) DCA's debt collection agencies - DCA's are NOT BAILIFFS they have ZERO legal powers on ANY debt - no matter what it's TYPE. an OC make pass a debt to a dca as their client to try and spoof people into paying through legal ignorance of the above statement. an OC may SELL on an old debt to a DCA/debt buyer (approx 10p=£1) and then claim their losses through tax write off and their business insurance, wiping their hands of the debt. the DCA then becomes the debt OWNER. since the late 70's dca's pull all kinds of 'stunts' through threat-o-grams to spoof a debtor into paying them the full value of the debt, when they bought if for a discounted sum (typically 10p=£1). you never pay a dca a penny! if read carefully, NONE of their letters nor those of any other 'trading names' they spoof themselves under making it seem it's going up some kind of legitimate legal 'chain' say WILL anything....just carefully worded letters with all kinds of threats of what could/might/poss happen with other such words as instruct forward pass... well my dog does not sit when instructed too...so... DCA's SOMETIMES will issue a court claim, but in all honesty its simply a speculative claim hoping mugs wet themselves and cough up...oh im going to court... BIG DEAL DCA - show me the enforceable paperwork signed by me...9/10 they dont have it and if your defence is conducted properly, most run away from you . however before they do all that they now have to send a letter of claim, cause the courts got fed up with them issuing +750'000PA speculative claims and jamming up the legal system. so bottom line is two conclusions.... if you cant pay a debt, get a DN issued ASAP (stop paying it!) make sure it gets registered on your file then it stops hurting your file/future credit in 6yrs regardless to what happens (bar of course a later DCA CCJ - fat chance mind!)  once you've a registered DN , then look into restarting payments if the debt is still owed by the OC, if SOLD to a DCA, don't pay - see if they issue a letter of claim (then comeback here!).        
    • Any update here?  I ask as we have someone new being hassled for parking at this site.
    • Any update here?  I ask as we have someone new being hassled for parking at this site.
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pcn over 3 months late


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Any advice would help,

 

Received a pcn 3 months after the offence asking for £180 as i had not payed it now i had never received the said pcn, spoke to the council and they said they had a problem with there printer and it had not been sent out and if i payed £60 that would be it, i appealed as i thought they had to send it out within 28 days and have now had a letter saying they are rejecting my appeal, anyone know the law on this should i take it to the next stage , dont want to get stung with any court costs.

 

With thanks Skanky

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Do you have ther admission re the printer in writing - either as a letter or contemporaneous notes that you have made?

********************************************

Nothing in this post constitutes "advice" which I may not, in any event, be qualified to provide.

The only interpretation permitted on this post (or any others I may have made) is that this is what I would personally consider doing in the circumstances discussed. Each and every reader of this post or any other I may have made must take responsibility for forming their own view and making their own decision.

I receive an unwieldy number of private messages. I am happy to respond to messages posted on open forum but am unable to respond to private messages, seeking advice, when the substance of that message should properly be on the open forum.

Many thanks for your assistance and understanding on this.

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And did they say anything about either a "Notice to Owner" or an "Enforcement Notice" not having been issued? Or did you get these.

The reason I ask is that it sounds like what you have is either a "Charge Certificate" or an "Order for Recovery". Can you scan wash and post what you have.

I would also suggest you make a note of the conversations (when and with whom and what said) and sign and date them if you have not already done so.

********************************************

Nothing in this post constitutes "advice" which I may not, in any event, be qualified to provide.

The only interpretation permitted on this post (or any others I may have made) is that this is what I would personally consider doing in the circumstances discussed. Each and every reader of this post or any other I may have made must take responsibility for forming their own view and making their own decision.

I receive an unwieldy number of private messages. I am happy to respond to messages posted on open forum but am unable to respond to private messages, seeking advice, when the substance of that message should properly be on the open forum.

Many thanks for your assistance and understanding on this.

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If Bernie is right, and I think he probably is, do try and get i writing exactly what they have not sent you (or, conversely, a full list of what they have sent). If you have been issued a Charge Certificate when to their knowledge you were never sent a Notice to Owner, I reckon you can have the charge quashed on the basis of impropriety. Don't tell them what you're up to though, just ask innocently for the info - maybe by email so you get an email reply.

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Thanks Bernie and jamberson,

 

I have`nt explained it to well, the date of the offence which was going 20 meters down a one way street when i came out of a car park was 29/04/2010 the first i new of this was when i got a charge certificate on 09/08/2010 stating amount due £180 i got straight onto the phone and this is when they stated that there had been a printer error and that i could pay just £60 i refused and said i would appeal which they said i could, i appealed that , i had not been sent photographic evidence, and it had not been done within 28 days, on the 01/10/2010 i received a notice of rejection of formal representation and that i can pay £60 or appeal again but if i lose i will have to pay £120. As you can tell by the dates of offence and when they let my appeal go through they were admiting i had not received a pcn.

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As you can tell by the dates of offence and when they let my appeal go through they were admiting i had not received a pcn.

 

They are not admitting anything, they are responding to your claim you never received a PCN and offered you the opportunity to go back to the PCN stage. The alternative would have been to send you an order for recovery and get you to fill in a statutary declaration that you had no PCN and THEN take it back to the PCN stage. All they have done is avoid wasting yours and their time and accepted your word. If you can prove no PCN was sent then you should appeal on those grounds but not receiving and not being sent are not the same. Whilst I don't doubt what you are saying I find it strange they would knowingly not bother sending a PCN out Councils have hundreds of printers and if it was broken they would just print it a day or two later. If there was a printer problem in April I doubt very much there would be a note on your case file that stated 'no PCN sent as printer was broken'.

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Hi GREEN AND MEAN,

 

The lady from the council said that there had been an printer malfunction from what i could tell there had been at least a weeks worth of pcn`s that did`nt go out, im going to phone them on monday and see if they will state it in writing for me if they do, do you think i have a good case for appeal........

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Hi GREEN AND MEAN,

 

The lady from the council said that there had been an printer malfunction from what i could tell there had been at least a weeks worth of pcn`s that did`nt go out, im going to phone them on monday and see if they will state it in writing for me if they do, do you think i have a good case for appeal........

 

If the PCN was never sent then you are in the clear if the adjudicator agrees with you. But as I said above it seems a bit odd that for an entire week no one noticed no PCNs were coming out of the printer after they pressed print especially as they would then have had to post them. If they knew the printer was not working they could have just postponned until the next week. I would suggest posting up all letters you have received and contacting the Council for clarification on why they re-issued the PCN.

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Where I live, this is the system: The NTOs are bulk-generated automatically on the computer system. They are printed and folded and placed in envelopes automatically by machine.

 

By then, the status on the account will show NTO issued on x date. If, after this, it is spotted that the NTOs are faulty, there's no way back except to manually print duplicates, which I suspect would fall foul of the regs (not 100% sure of that).

 

So I think it is feasible that a printer fault could mean the NTO was not sent and that a CC went out automatically. The computer record won't reveal this, as it will show the NTO issued as normal - that's why something is needed in writing.

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Where I live, this is the system: The NTOs are bulk-generated automatically on the computer system. They are printed and folded and placed in envelopes automatically by machine.

 

By then, the status on the account will show NTO issued on x date. If, after this, it is spotted that the NTOs are faulty, there's no way back except to manually print duplicates, which I suspect would fall foul of the regs (not 100% sure of that).

 

So I think it is feasible that a printer fault could mean the NTO was not sent and that a CC went out automatically. The computer record won't reveal this, as it will show the NTO issued as normal - that's why something is needed in writing.

 

Generally the document PCN/NTO is generated by progressing the case it is then printed, if the printer fails it will show as pending just the same as on a PC when you try to print a document. It can be reprinted the only problem would be that the date on it would be the day it has to be posted so it would need to be done the same day. Unless they are in the dark ages most Councils are networked so if the printer fails the document can be printed on another printer on the network.

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Thanks everyone,

green and mean i dont really know what the system is in my borough barking and dagenham but i got 2 of these missed pcn`s 5 days apart, i know it sounds to you as if im trying to get out of paying but they really did not get sent out im self employed so used of getting plenty of fines one way or another, and if i cant get a letter confirming the printer error will just pay up.

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Spoke to a lady at the council today explained that i needed a letter stating the printer malfunction, had to wait while she spoke to her manager then told me to re-appeal to the council, now when i said surely i have to appeal to the next stage she said no re-appeal to the council. Like i said before i know for a fact that at least 1 weeks worth of pcn`s did`nt go out and i bet there`s alot of people that they`ve automaticly said no to on appeal and just the fact that im willing to take it to the next stage there hopfully going to squash them,,,,will let you know how it go`s

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The DPA is not going to be of any help getting the council to admit in writing that PCNs did not get sent out because of a printer malfunction.

 

IMHO OP should write to LA setting out the details and confirming that they have contemporaneous notes of the conversations which will be produced as evidence to the adjudicator should the LA not exercise their discretion and cancel all enforcement of and the PCNs themselves.

********************************************

Nothing in this post constitutes "advice" which I may not, in any event, be qualified to provide.

The only interpretation permitted on this post (or any others I may have made) is that this is what I would personally consider doing in the circumstances discussed. Each and every reader of this post or any other I may have made must take responsibility for forming their own view and making their own decision.

I receive an unwieldy number of private messages. I am happy to respond to messages posted on open forum but am unable to respond to private messages, seeking advice, when the substance of that message should properly be on the open forum.

Many thanks for your assistance and understanding on this.

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