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Roxburghe.. Shoosmith.. Natwest..


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Guest fiveaside

Hi, just off the phone with Roxburghe.. what a bunch of ^&^£"$ ! My story is that I have approx 13k of unsecured debt - it's a personal loan that I took out about 5 years ago, and stopped paying approx 2 years ago because the bank couldn't locate the loan agreement etc etc. So we're now 2 years down the line, I've been to the FOS who were no use whatsoever.. I'd been going backwards and forwards also with Natwest using template letters from here, using section 78, CPR etc etc. I had a letter from the bank stating that they would be unable to pursue the matter in court, until they found the agreement.

 

Natwest then put Triton onto me, I saw them off by referring them to my correspondence with the bank. The bank then instructed Shoosmiths.. who again I in turn referred back to the bank.. eventually receiving a letter back from them to inform me that they had been instructed by the bank not to pursue the matter anymore due to the bank being unable to locate the original agreement. A few months elapse, and I am now being chased by Roxburghe, who are now telling me that they don't care what Shoosmiths have said, that their letter has no legal basis, and they would apply due the size of the debt for a warrant of execution to seize assets to recover the debt? I could go on about the conversation with them, repeating myself about what I have done over the last couple of years, both myself and the person at Roxburghe were becoming very irate with each other..

 

He said he would call me back in a week, and I would need to give an income and expenditure list to him so they can decide on a suitable level of repayment. What can or should I do?? please help me.

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DON'T Speak to them on the phone ever. NEVER discuss or disclose your income/expenditure to them. They cannot instruct bailiffs without a court instruction and only if you have failed to meet a court agreement. Muppets (that was going to be ruder by the way and began with a w..).

 

You need to write to them and tell them this is in dispute with the OC and to go away, there is a letter in the library that you can adapt, for when you are contacted about a debt already in dispute.

 

There is also a telephone harassment letter if they keep ringing.

 

I hate Roxeburgh - but not as much as NatWest and HFO.

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Guest fiveaside

Nice one, I'll send them a copy of the letter from Natwest, the letter from the solicitor, the letter's you recommend and I'll keep this thread updated!

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Well, you have answered your own questions, to some degree.

 

Sadly, you have stumbled on one of the least scrupulous and nastiest of DCAs.

 

It’s a shame you did not record that call. They have lied – they cannot do any of what they claim WITHOUT first getting judgment against you. It would be good if you could get them to repeat all that on tape, but we’d generally recommend you only deal in writing with these muppets. If they do call back and you want to talk to them, make sure you record it. Only a court can demand an I&E list from you.

 

So, in short, what they have said is bluster. Eventually you will need to write and inform them of the previous correspondence and the fact that there is, as yet, no enforceable agreement. (NB Triton is part of NatWest)

 

In the meantime, you should complain about Roxburghe’s improper conduct to the OFT and your local Trading Standards.

 

One thing to look at: Roxburghe usually chase on behalf of themselves, ie. debts they have bought. Has the account been sold by NatWest, or are they working on their behalf?

Edited by DonkeyB

“The industry is rotten to the core, whether it is in-house recovery and collection, or where agents are used, or where the debt has been sold.” Andrew Mackinley MP, House of Commons, 22 April 2009

 

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In the meantime, can you give us more info? Why did you request the CCA? Did you have issues with payments? It’s unusual that a five year-old loan account, especially with NatWest, has no paperwork, and I’ve never known NatWest use Roxburghe before. Trying to work out what the chain of events is, and how Roxburghe have become involved.

“The industry is rotten to the core, whether it is in-house recovery and collection, or where agents are used, or where the debt has been sold.” Andrew Mackinley MP, House of Commons, 22 April 2009

 

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Roxburghe is a popular company! And it’s lunchtime... lots of Caggers looking in on corporate nets, probably :wink:

“The industry is rotten to the core, whether it is in-house recovery and collection, or where agents are used, or where the debt has been sold.” Andrew Mackinley MP, House of Commons, 22 April 2009

 

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Guest fiveaside
In the meantime, can you give us more info? Why did you request the CCA? Did you have issues with payments? It’s unusual that a five year-old loan account, especially with NatWest, has no paperwork, and I’ve never known NatWest use Roxburghe before. Trying to work out what the chain of events is, and how Roxburghe have become involved.

 

In the first instance my claim centre around PPI.. As I began to research websites, especially this one I became more empowered and ask for a copy of the loan agreement so I could inspect it to ensure all was in order in terms of PPI etc.. then to my surprise they came back to say they couldn't locate it.. I then sent letters to trading standards, ICO, FOS, CAB etc etc..to make them aware of issue. I started this process at the tail end of 2008..the FOS getting involved delayed things to an extent which gave me time to keep pushing my case with other agencies, and organisations. Mid last year I receive a letter from Shoosmiths essentially saying they were attempting to recover or work out payments etc..we went to and fro, they wanted I & E forms, when finally after sending them a strongly worded letter about PPI and non disclosed commissions etc that someone provided me with from another website, they sent me a letter saying they have been advised not to pursue this matter by their client anymore. I then don't hear anything for many months this year, then get letters, and phone calls from Roxburghe.. called them straight away..schoolboy, gave lots of references and details of Shoosmiths and Natwest etc.. then get more phone calls and letters from Roxburghe saying they are disappointed I haven't been in touch. Queue my phone call today.. I cant help myself sometimes.. if there is something I want to say I say it...he then threatens me with this warrant as explained above..this is the first time anyone has ever mentioned seizure of assets - as this loan is unsecured etc.. the default is already applied approx 18 mths ago.. to a degree I am comfortable with the default, as its there.. it wont get removed no matter what I do.. I don't want to take anymore debt on etc anyway.. but Roxburghe threat has thrown me a bit. I knew I'd get some venerable assistance on here..

 

Oh and Roxburghe say they are acting on behalf of Natwest....

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Have you had any letters from Roxburghe?

“The industry is rotten to the core, whether it is in-house recovery and collection, or where agents are used, or where the debt has been sold.” Andrew Mackinley MP, House of Commons, 22 April 2009

 

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And there could well be an issue with the default, if the have applied it while there was a genuine dispute on the account, such as the legitimacy of the PPI being charged.

 

However, that said, sometimes it can be a mistake to withhold payment for non-compliance with a s78 request – I’m not actually aware of any statute that says you can actually stop paying, though it’s frequently relayed and repeated on CAG.

“The industry is rotten to the core, whether it is in-house recovery and collection, or where agents are used, or where the debt has been sold.” Andrew Mackinley MP, House of Commons, 22 April 2009

 

If a Cagger helps you, click their star. Better still, make a donation however small, so that CAG can continue to help others.

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It may be worth contacting NatWest to see if they have appointed Roxburghe, and asking them why... record the call.

“The industry is rotten to the core, whether it is in-house recovery and collection, or where agents are used, or where the debt has been sold.” Andrew Mackinley MP, House of Commons, 22 April 2009

 

If a Cagger helps you, click their star. Better still, make a donation however small, so that CAG can continue to help others.

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Guest fiveaside

2 letters from Roxburghe, both fairly aggressive. I hear what you are saying about S78.. at the time, it was a popular subject of debate.. I understood from my interpretation that it applied to my case. Still 2 years down the line, I am not hearing anything differently.. surely if S78 wasn't applicable, the bank could then just chuck that back in my face??

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Guest fiveaside
And there could well be an issue with the default, if the have applied it while there was a genuine dispute on the account, such as the legitimacy of the PPI being charged.

 

 

Natwest left an "in dispute " notice on my credit records with all the CRA's for approx 4 months, and then just applied the default..

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Can you scan and post the Roxburghe letters, with your personal and account details removed? Want to see if they’re the usual template rubbish.

“The industry is rotten to the core, whether it is in-house recovery and collection, or where agents are used, or where the debt has been sold.” Andrew Mackinley MP, House of Commons, 22 April 2009

 

If a Cagger helps you, click their star. Better still, make a donation however small, so that CAG can continue to help others.

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Guest fiveaside
Can you scan and post the Roxburghe letters, with your personal and account details removed? Want to see if they’re the usual template rubbish.

 

Hi, I can do that this weekend..thanks for your assistance thus far.

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Donkey - I got chased by Roguesburghe for a debt they were collecting for someone else, was never sold to them.

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Licence Number:0555914

Licence Status:Current

 

Current Applicant / Licensee:

 

Business NameCompany Registration NumberHFO Services Limited05120067

 

Categories:

 

Consumer credit Consumer hire Credit brokerage Credit reference agency Debt adjusting/counselling Debt collecting

 

Right To Canvass Off Trade Premises:No

 

 

Trading Name(s) (Historic):

 

HFO Services Limited HFO Group Roxburghe HFO Capital HFO Capital

 

Issued Date: 26-Sep-2004

Expiry Date: 25-Sep-2009

 

 

Legal Formation:

 

Body Corporate (incorporated inside UK)

 

Current Individuals that run the organisation:

 

NamePositionAlasdair John Turnbull

 

Historic Individuals that run the organisation:

 

NamePositionBadri NathanOFFICERBardi NathanOFFICERKevin Stuart HarperOFFICER

 

Current Organisations that run the organisation:

 

NameCompany Registration NumberPositionTurnbull Rutherford Limited5717402

 

Nature of Business:

 

debt collectionlink3.gif Other

 

Current Address(es):

 

Address TypeAddressCorrespondence Roxburghe House, Lavender Park Road, West Byfleet, Surrey, KT14 6NAPrincipal Place Of Business6B Building No.6, DLF Cyber City, DLF Phase- 3, Gurgaon, 122002, IndiaRegistered OfficeKings Parade, Lower Coombe Street, CROYDON, CR0 1AA, United Kingdom

 

Historic Address(es):

 

Address TypeAddressPrincipal Place Of Business1, Copsem Lane, Esher, Surrey, KT10 9EUPrincipal Place Of BusinessGrafton House 28-32, Grafton Road, New Malden, Surrey, KT3 0AAPrincipal Place Of BusinessGrafton House, 28-32 Grafton Road, New Malden, Surrey, KT3 0AAPrincipal Place Of BusinessRoxburghe House, Lavender Park Road, West Byfleet, Surrey, KT14 6NARegistered Office., Carlton Gardens, London, SW17 5AARegistered Office1, Copsem Lane, Esher, Surrey, KT10 9EURegistered Office4, Carlton Gardens, ., London, ., SW17 5AARegistered Office4, Carlton Gardens, London, SW17 5AARegistered Office4, Carlton Square, London, SW17 5AA

Edited by 42man

PLEASE NOTE - I am not a legal expert, what is stated is my own opinion and from what I have learnt from this forum and my own experiences.

 

DEBT COLLECTION LETTER/SAR/AGREEMENT TEMPLATES ARE HERE - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/content.php?65-legislation

 

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Indeed 42man. And yes, coledog, I’m aware that Rox collect occasionally for others (especially parking tickets, but that’s another world!), but it’s the NatWest link that’s odd. I can’t imagine NatWest would touch Roxburghe with a bargepole! That’s why I wondered if NatWest had offloaded the problem, and someone had forgotten to tell the OP. All very curious.

“The industry is rotten to the core, whether it is in-house recovery and collection, or where agents are used, or where the debt has been sold.” Andrew Mackinley MP, House of Commons, 22 April 2009

 

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Donkey - my NatWest 'problem' got passed to various DCA lowlifes (who I ignored) by the Telford mob after they failed to send me a credit agreement in 2005 (but not Roxies). I would not put anything past them and they are very bad at supplying information, a SAR may be required here.

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Hi coledog

 

Yes, NatWest have quite a history if using lowlife DCAs, but I was hoping they wouldn’t go this low (hell, they have some of my overdraft!). I wonder if they are aware of the number of complaints that have been sent to the OFT and Trading Standards about Roxburghe’s collection methods, some of which (such as those mentioned here) contravene OFT guidelines and their own trade association’s code of conduct?

“The industry is rotten to the core, whether it is in-house recovery and collection, or where agents are used, or where the debt has been sold.” Andrew Mackinley MP, House of Commons, 22 April 2009

 

If a Cagger helps you, click their star. Better still, make a donation however small, so that CAG can continue to help others.

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HFO Services and Roxburghe are registered as separate companies with Companies House and ICO

 

HFO Services company No 05120067

Roxburghe company No 03137269

 

Both companies have the same registered address

 

KINGS PARADE

LOWER COOMBE STREET

CROYDON

SURREY

CR0 1AA

US President Barack Obama referred to Ugland House as the biggest building in the world or the biggest tax SCA* in the world.

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The registered address is their (group) accountant, Bryden Johnson.

“The industry is rotten to the core, whether it is in-house recovery and collection, or where agents are used, or where the debt has been sold.” Andrew Mackinley MP, House of Commons, 22 April 2009

 

If a Cagger helps you, click their star. Better still, make a donation however small, so that CAG can continue to help others.

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Guest fiveaside

Hi all.. I didn't have time to scan the documents at the weekend, so I have summised the below..

Received 5/9/10...

"Your failure to respond in a satisfactory manner to all previous attempts at resolving this matter has led to RBS to escalate your account. Debt resolution is now with Roxburghe, a weel respected and renowned recover specialist. Please not that in absence of payment or any valid dispute we will pursue this matter, with or without your co-operation."

I then call them, speak to a half decent chap whom I give details of the solicitors that Natwest had sent onto me, their references, contacts at Natwests and their references.. He said he would revert back to their client.

Numerous phonecalls in between from what looks like a mobile number - why would you answer a number you don't recognise, or would you? Is that part of their ploy?!

Received 18/9/10

"We have written to you previously and are disappointed you have not contacted, despite our requests for you to do so..blah blah"

Seveal phone calls to me ensue.. Not even introducing themselves but still asking for my personal details..

Eventually through frustration I call them up and explain I have already given details, this debt is in dispute etc.. I get very irate.. Their manager threatens me with warrant of execution or whatever it is, tells me to call back in one week with my I&E details etc.. Which then leads me to CAG for your greatly appreciated help.

Someone pointed me towards some templates, I'll work on writing those letters to these scumbags including the letter I have from both the bank and solicitors saying that can't pursue this matter in court whilst the agreement is not found

Oh, and this weekend I receive a letter from them that has crossed over between my conversation with them, and coming to CAG.

Dated 30/9/10

We have written to you previously and you have failed to resolve this matter with us. As a result, we have, completely within current legislation, invesitgated your account to determine your personal situation and potential reasons for non payment.

From the results of our analysis we have established you are in a positiomn make arrangement with us to clear your liability, and have simply chosen not to.

You have 72 HOURS from receipt of this notificatiom to make payment. Failure to deal with this matter within the given time may result in action being taken without further reference to you. This may involve the commencement of legal proceedings where court fees and solicitors costs can be added, this substantially increasing the amount owed.

Please not that in absence of payment or any valid dispute we will pursue this matter, with or without your co-operation."

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Guest fiveaside

this is the letter I have written, and about to send to them :

 

Roxburghe Debt Collectors

PO Box 342

Surrey

KT14 6YX

ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE

 

Date: 11/10/10

 

Dear Sir or Madam,

 

Account number: ****

 

I am in receipt of your letters dated 1/9, 17/9, 30/9. I have also received several harassing phone calls from yourselves, a matter I have raised to OFCOM, Trading Standards, and the OFT.

 

This account is in dispute with **Natwest Bank/RBS** and has been since 23rd December 2008.

Not only is this a breach of the Consumer Protection From Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 in line with the Office Of Fair Trading's debt collection guidelines, but also in breach of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and Data Protection Act 1998

 

My dispute has NOT been answered.

 

As ****Natwest Bank/RBS** ** are now in default of my Consumer Credit Act agreement request and have also breached *s10 Data Protection Act request , I consider this account to be in SERIOUS DISPUTE.

 

As you are aware while my Consumer Credit Act request remains in default enforcement action is NOT permitted, under s127 this constitutes a complete defence at law.

 

Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS.

 

Now I would respectfully suggest that this account is returned to the ****Natwest Bank/RBS** for resolution of these defaults and breaches, as **Roxburghe** cannot lawfully pursue any enforcement activities.

 

If Roxburghe chooses to ignore my dispute and attempt enforcement, I will initiate legal action and file reports with the appropriate authorities, including, but not limited to, Trading Standards, Office of Fair Trading, Information Commissioners Office, Financial Ombudsman Service and possible court action.

I enclose a letter from Natwest, dated 23rd December 2008 stating that they would be unable to take steps to enforce the loan by court action. I have several other letters from them stating this fact as well.

I also enclose a letter from the banks solicitors, who have previously attempted to enforce recovery, with whom I have sent a similar letter and harassment notice.

After taking advice, I am of the opinion that any continued pursuit is in violation of the Consumer Protection From Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 in line with the Office Of Fair Trading’s Collection Guidelines

I hope that this will not be necessary and an acceptable solution can be accomplished.

 

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

 

Yours faithfully

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Hi Again

 

This looks pretty good to me - check spelling - 'to' whom I have sent' not 'with' and change 'an acceptable solution' to 'an acceptable solution with the creditor' as you want them to send it back to NatWest

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