Cabot/Morgans **COURT PAPERS ISSUED**

[mysticpols06]

Original Links:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?166869-CABOT-Aarghhhh!!&p=1797323&viewfull=1#post1797323

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?172388-CAP-ONE-NO-AGREEMENT-NOW-SOLD-TO-CABOT-I-THINK-WHILST-IN-DIS-Hmmmmm!&p=1859669&viewfull=1#post1859669

 

 

Afternoon everyone - Have received papers from Morgans on behalf of Cabot obviously. Am calling on my usually fab supportive cag crew for some serious advice please please please!

 

Firstly - the last i had heard is as posted above, in reply to my response to their first template regarding proceedings. I responded in the time scale requested and no further warning of intending to proceed was sent.

 

Secondly, they have combined the amount for this acc with the amount of the cap one acc they have of mine (see other thread) - so how do i stand with getting the cases seperated or in your opinions is it better to have them combined?

 

Thirdly - Bearing in mind my two threads re Cabot that many of you have been following and aiding the past two years - Do you think it is possible to win this - and not only win but possibly counter claim for the costs incurred, defamation to my character by reporting the misleading data etc when they knew that i was legally witholding the payments instead of simply refusing to pay and all the distress caused? Or should i back down and offer a £1 a wk knowing full well that they will continue to hound me for more - Failing that would it be wiser to possibly try one of these no win-no fee solicitors to represent me because i know that the paperwork side of things isn't a problem for me especially with all of your help and support but actually standing in front of a judge and fighting it will booger me up as i would be a nervous wreck and get all my words etc wrong.

Ok, initial panic & ramble over.

 

Anyway - First things first. The POC are as follows:

 

"The claimant is the Assignee of a debt(s) from Barclaycard (littlewoods) - ref ....... and Capital One - ref ........,

Notice of assignment having been given to the Defendant in writing. Despite demand for payment, £xxxx.xx remains due. The claimant claims £xxxx.xx and interest under s.69 County Courts Act 1984 and costs."

 

(Is it worth noting that the total amount already includes court fee and solicitors fee?) And from what i can tell i have the basic 14 days to respond. So, where do i begin?

 

Thanks as always, Mpols xxx

[silverfox1961]

Time for some more reading Mpols:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?159445

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?241827-Legal-Action-how-to-start-off.-IMPORTANT-IF-YOURE-BEING-SUED&highlight

 

I also happened on this. Although the statement is about a mortgage, I'm wondering if it could apply to you as well:

 

http://news.roslingking.com/?p=391

[The GodMother]

SilverFox. Am l rite in thinking they cant just put 2 seperate accounts into one claim.

[silverfox1961]

I'm not sure but I think you may be right GM.

There are different T'c&C's for each account

[The GodMother]

There would have to be because one is from Littlewoods and another from someone else as far as l can tell. I know there are laws on spliting claims so they cant just chase there charges then go for the balance at a later date. Like b carter does

[Jasper1965]

CPR

 

Right to use one claim form to start two or more claims

 

7.3

 

A claimant may use a single claim form to start all claims which can be conveniently disposed of in the same proceedings.

These two accounts cannot possibly be dealt with "conveniently" in the same proceedings as they involve two different a/c's, OC's, T&C's, and legal status etc.etc. and each a/c is open to defence by yourself on it's own merits which may or may not reflect the legal status of the other account.

 

 

Total shambles and a good letter to the Court indicating that you are defending this claim but the nature of the claim means that you must effectually write two very different defences for the same claim should really be enough for the Court to use their case management powers to get this chucked out early doors as a breach of CPR 7.3.

[andrew1]

Much as I'd love to, I don't have enough time to allocate to this, but my initial advice is to seperate these into the two accounts and then ask Morgans to supply you with the deeds of Assignement for each. Check out the sales assignment document when you manage to get them and where they are heavily redacted ( Lines blanked out) come back here and we'll guide you through them. It is essential now you get together all the documents you can. Agreements, T & C's Default Notices and then you need to begin checking dates - and I mean check. Every date is important, dates served, content correct, Check when Cabot bought the debt, if they sent the hallo and goodbye letters in the same envelope, how many defaults are on your credit files, what they consist of -everything because the devil is in the detail and Cabot feck up time and time again on their documents and dates. I've heard it somewhere they allegedly create documents so check all the legal documents (Default notices etc) that they have not been Blue Petered. I'm not saying they do, but just check as part of the process and once you've got all that in place you'll be ready when they send any court documents and these documents which are heavily redacted which might have Human Rights implications. Ignore their threatograms, but take seriously any action they take as they'll probably take you to the wire before even blatant errors on their side are admitted.

 

If you need a solicitor or feel you can't handle this alone make sure you use one who understands cabot and the CCA - if you need one just shout and I'll tell you who I used.

 

I will not recommend solicitors, just point you to who I used - every case is different so make your own choices as I wouldn't want anyone coming back to me after saying it didn't work for them. It worked for me, but I'm crazy! .

 

Just remind Morgans that you have a big help from CAG and a little help from the Cabot Fan Club - put them on notice who they are feckin with !

[mysticpols06]

Morning all - Ok, So have been reading up again whenever have had 5 mins over weekend (tisn't often ) & from what i can gather -

Firstly they shouldn't have combined both acc in one claim, secondly i didn't receive a lba unless they are going to state that the template i got telling me to respond withi one month or else they would begin proceedings without further notice, acts as such, (I DID respond in time as can be seen in prev posts) thirdly their poc only mention the notice of assignment being given to me in writing, no mention of agreement/dispute etc, fourthly, the claim was not accompanied by any docs, mentioned So according to the link Fox gave me, it quotes "

 

no docs with the claim

 

ASK for them in writing (CPR 31.14)

 

then the claimant has 7 days to facilitate the request (CPR 31.15)

 

Also when asking for docs, ask also for an extension of time (CPR 15.5) as the Claimant and yourself can agree up to an extra 28 days for filing a defence

 

this should put you in a stronger position

 

If the Claimant refuses then i always make an application for an order to disclose and in breach the claim is struck out and 99.9% of the time you will get it"

 

I think i need to find/draft a letter to Morgans explaining the above & asking for all docs under cpr plus requesting more time for defence - then do another letter for the court explaining the combined accounts etc. Am i on right track please? My head just doesn't seem able to retain the info like it should regardless of how much i read

 

Andrew Thanku for your advice - I have been trying to find one of the no win-no fee companies for my area (Doncaster), but they all seem to be aimed at the 'had an accident that's not your fault' genre so would be grateful if you have any names/numbers that i might be able to use at all please? At the moment i haven't acknowledged the claim which was received sat as not too sure what i should be writing or saying yet. Also i need to send off for my updated credit files and then cross ref them i think. Am probably sounding like an abso numpty but am just trying to get things in the right order/make sense.

 

Many thanks everyone for your prompt responses. Am off to read some more. Mpols xx

[Rhia]

Mpols I double agree with everything Andrew has told you. Re solicitors let's see how far we can get but I do know Andrew had a good one. 8-)

 

It's a lot of work for you but you may well have some of it. Just form two files and also follow Jaspar's advice re CPR.

[mysticpols06]

Hi Rhia, Thanks hun,

Question (s) - Would it be feasible to send a combined CPR 31.12 and CPR 16.4 (2) Request to try and get them to supply me with ALL the documents that should have been included in their POC for them to properly plead their case? Or am i barking up the wrong tree? I thought it might work because they have only mentioned the NOA in their POC and obviously my argument is that the accs have been in dis almost two years due to lack of fulfilled CCA, so i haven't ignored their demands but have legally witheld payment until correct docs appear? Also, Do i send the letter to Morgans and Cabot or just the former & Finally, do i need to write two copies with the seperate ref numbers on or just the one beings as they have combined the two acc? Actually might just be able to send the one copy thinking about it as i could add the statement that Jasper posted above possibly? And presumably i can add the request for agreeing to extend the deadline as well.

 

Hope this is making sense? Thanks, Mpols x

[mysticpols06]

bumping just for if someone has time to answer please :oops:Thanking you xx ps..Miss d' t'other smilies

[spamheed]

You need to treat each request as a separate issue.

 

by all means make separate requests under 31.14 and Part 18, they will only send what they want to send, make sure you keep all prrofs of posting and proofs of delivery

 

when it comes time to complete the Allocation Questionnaire, you need to ask the courts to order disclosure of all of the documents they have failed to provide you with and also to replead the case in line with CPR 16

 

The POC seem to be constant, mine was virtually identical, I filed a defence on the basis of the POC and also documents they have provided to date, then had the courts order disclosure in my AQ, it's not foolproof but at least it puts them to strict proof of what they are saying and also holds them to a set deadline

[mysticpols06]

Morning all - Thanks for advice so far. Have sent a cpr.18 for further info, as the poc so vague with a request for extension of deadline (cpr15.5) - they should have it monday so we will go from there. Have been advised that is the sum is relatively small & under 5k that it will prob go small claims so doubt i will get help with costs which means i am likely to have to face them on me own which tbh is the only bit i dont relish the thought of. Nerves tend to get the better of me in any confrontational situation & any semblance of brain matter simply disintergrates oh well - cest la vie! Will update as/when can - need to start formulating defence, although at the moment unless further info arrives it might be a bit tricky. Take care all. Thanks as always, Mpols x

[creditcardmug]

Put in a good defence to the POC, then when you get the Aq, make sure you demand they produce the original documents at the hearing, then you should win, good luck

[mysticpols06]

Morning everyone - received a letter - short and sweet - literally 2 lines long telling me they are in the process of responding to my part 18 request and will forward their response shortly. No mention of the part 15.5 which was to agree to more time. Will start looking at defence/getting a draft compiled this weekend - at least with the basics then can amend it to suit depending on which docs i get from them. Hope everyone is well. Mpols x

[Satterthwaite]

Mpols following your thread with interest Cabot have lumped 3 totally different claims into one POC,

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?275913-Cabot-3-claims-in-1-claim-form.&p=3158864&highlight=#post3158864

[Rhia]

If this is what they have done you need to separate each one as they will each have different t&cs to start with as well as application forms, agreements. Cabot is beyond contempt.

[mysticpols06]

Good afternoon folks - Hope everyone is well? Ok, seriously need to get a defence sorted now - didn't get a chance last week as had all the littlies off school poorly & literally didn't get time to pee let alone anything else (too much info? oops soz ) Haven't heard or received anything else from morgans other than in a couple posts up basically acknowledging my part 18 letter. Not sure really where to start but don't really want to file an embarrassed defence unless have to. I need to address the fact that they have combined the two amounts & try to seperate those plus their poc are very vague & not received any docs yet. I dunno if this makes sense to anyone but i would kinda like to push the fact that i am disputing the paperwork not the debt as such if that will work? I have been asking for the last two yrs for the correct docs to fulfill cca plus for the acc to be returned to the oc. Any pointers right now would be very gratefully received. Am off to try & read some more. Many thanks as always, Mpols x

[mysticpols06]

Ok, so now my eyes are practically bleeding, my head is thumping & i feel like crying am so dizzy from going in circles reading thread after thread - Pleeeeeease pretty please can someone who has the knowledge point me in the right direction for a basic defence that might relate to my case that i can ammend/add to appropriately? I'm sorry - i don't expect anyone else to 'do it all for me' but i'm just not sure where to even begin & really don't have much time left. A quick summary is as follows but not sure if am just confusing minor bits with major bits etc - aaarghhh! (Soooo not a gd day soreeeeee)

 

Claimant has combined two separate accounts - (breach of CPR.7.3)

 

Capital one - CCA requested Nov 08 Not fulfilled - Acc then sold to Cabot Nov 08

Cab were sent acc in dis letter & asked to return acc to cap one for remedy of breaches made.

Have repeated this request in answer to payment demands in same manner until claim form received.

No LBA received other than a last chance to pay & threatening legal action if no response in a month - response was sent in a month so why start proceedings immediately.

Cap one also in breach of SAR.

Claim received (combined both acc & poc vague)

No other docs received to support claim

Morgans now in breach of part 18 (further info request) & ignored part 15.5 (extension of deadline request)

 

Littlewoods - Cabot apparently bought acc Oct 07

Continued with reduced payment plan until they apparently terminated acc in Oct 08 *found cag*

CCA request

Replied eventually with pre-contractual application form with seperate t&c that did not apply at time of issue. Also received ‘representations’ of noa, etc etc.

Passed to Fire

Passed to Robinson Way

Passed to Morgans

No lba received as above.

Claim arrived- (Combined both acc & poc vague)

No other docs received to support claim.

Morgans now in breach of part 18 (further info request) & ignored part 15.5 (extension of deadline request)

 

Apologies if this is bit confusing to follow - am ust trying to break down into two seperate lists so as to know what to refer to in defence etc. Mpols x

Edited October 26, 2010 by mysticpols06
had dates wrong doh -

[mysticpols06]

Bumping for advice please - i appreciate it is late now and am signing off to hopefully get some sleep Will check in again in morn. Thanks as always & sweet dreams, Mpols x

[GeoffreyAlby]

Oct 98?

 

 

After 6 years it is statuted barred!

[mysticpols06]

Hi Geoffrey - Thanks for your interest - My mistake - i just read my last couple posts back & i had somehow lost a whole decade haha - I think i did mention previously that i was utterly cream crackered - should had read Oct '08 etc - Am going to edit that post now rather than cause more confusion although statute barred would have been so much easier to contend with Thanks again, Mpols x

[mysticpols06]

ok can someone please check this and let me know if it is ok to send as a basic defence -

 

1. I, xxxxxxxxxx, am the defendant in this action and make the following statement as a defence to the claim made by xxxxxx

 

2. Except where otherwise mentioned in this defence, I neither admit nor deny any allegation made in the Claimant’s Particulars of Claim and put the Claimant to strict proof thereof.

 

3. The Defendant notes that the Claimant has combined two separate account sums in their particulars of claim in an attempt to conveniently wholly dispose of them in the same proceedings under CPR 7.3, however each sum involves separate accounts with their own original lender, account references, terms, conditions and legal status and can not possibly be “conveniently” disposed of in a single claim, therefore CPR 7.3 can not apply in this instance.

 

4. a)The Particulars of Claim are vague and insufficient and do not disclose an adequate statement of facts relating to or proceeding the alleged cause of action. No particulars are offered in relation to the nature of the contracts referred to, the method the Claimant calculated any outstanding sums due, or any default notices issued or any other matters necessary to substantiate the Claimant's claim.

b) A copy of the purported 'assignment' that the Claimant cites in the Particulars of Claim, and which appears to form the basis upon which these proceedings have been brought, has not been served attached to the claim form or provided for clarification.

5. The Claimant did not send a letter before action as required under the Pre-Action Protocols.

 

6. The Claimant has so far failed to disclose and clarify appropriate information to support the Particulars of Claim, requested pursuant to CPR 18, which leaves the Defendant at a disadvantage and unable to plead effectively or at all. Even if the Defendant were able to plead they should be allowed to plead effectively to each account on its’ own merit. The Defendant is embarrassed in pleading to the Claim as it stands.

 

7. The Claimant has not provided any documents to support the particulars of claim.

 

8. The Defendant did request in writing an extension of deadline for filing a defence pursuant to CPR 15.5, however the Claimant has not, thus far acknowledged or agreed to the request which in turn has also put the Defendant at a disadvantage for filing a defence.

 

9. The Defendant denies that they are indebted to the Claimant for the sum of £xxxx, including costs and puts the Claimant to strict proof of this sum.

 

10. As the Claimant has not provided proof of the debt or the sums claimed the Defendant denies the Claimants claim for interest pursuant to s.69 of the county court Act 1984.

 

AND the Defendant;

 

11. Seeks an order that the Claimant’s action is struck out under CPR 3.4.2 (a), or otherwise dismissed because the claimant has breached CPR 7.3, has failed to support their Particulars of Claim with the relevant documentation and on the grounds that any claim cannot succeed and that the Claimant do pay the Defendant’s costs incurred in defending this action.

Edited October 26, 2010 by mysticpols06
edited wording in point 5,6 & 10

[Rhia]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?252689-Credit-Card-defence-****WON****

[mysticpols06]

Thankyou Rhia - That is the thread i contrated on most the last couple days. I will add some points from that Piglands defence to what i have drafted above. Can you (or anyone) please yay or nay what i have so far? Am really trying to get this sorted today if poss as i wont be around the next few days while the kiddies are off school. Mpols x