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    • One other point to note, the more I read, the more I study, the more proficient I feel I am becoming in this area. Make no mistake DBCL if you are reading this, when I win in court, if I have the grounds to make any claims against you, such as breach of GDPR, I shall be doing so.
    • Yep, I read that and thought about trying to find out what the consideration and grace period is at Riverside but not sure I can. I know they say "You must tell us the specific consideration/grace period at a site if our compliance team or our agents ask what it is"  but I doubt they would disclose it to the public, maybe I should have asked in my CPR 31.14 letter? Yes, I think I can get rid of 5 minutes. I am also going to include a point about BPA CoP: 13.2 The reference to a consideration period in 13.1 shall not apply where a parking event takes place. I think that is Deception .... They giveth with one hand and taketh away with the other!
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    • the Town and Country [advertisments ] Regulations 2007 are not easy to understand. Most Council planing officials don't so it's good that you found one who knows. Although he may not have been right if the rogues have not been "controlling" in the car park for that long. The time only starts when the ANPR signs go up, not how long the area has been used as a car park.   Sadly I have checked Highview out and they have been there since at least 2014 . I have looked at the BPA Code of Practice version 8 which covers 2023 and that states Re Consideration and Grace Periods 13.3 Where a parking location is one where a limited period of parking is permitted, or where drivers contract to park for a defined period and pay for that service in advance (Pay & Display), this would be considered as a parking event and a Grace Period of at least 10 minutes must be added to the end of a parking event before you issue a PCN. It then goes on to explain a bit more further down 13.5 You must tell us the specific consideration/grace period at a site if our compliance team or our agents ask what it is. 13.6 Neither a consideration period or a grace period are periods of free parking and there is no requirement for you to offer an additional allowance on top of a consideration or grace period. _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________So you have  now only overstayed 5 minutes maximum since BPA quote a minimum of 10 minutes. And it may be that the Riverside does have a longer period perhaps because of the size of the car park? So it becomes even more incumbent on you to remember where the extra 5 minutes could be.  Were you travelling as a family with children or a disabled person where getting them in and out of the car would take longer. Was there difficulty finding a space, or having to queue to get out of the car park . Or anything else that could account for another 5 minutes  without having to claim the difference between the ANPR times and the actual times.
    • Regarding a driver, that HAS paid for parking but input an incorrect Vehicle Registration Number.   This is an easy mistake to make, especially if a driver has access to more than one vehicle. First of all, upon receiving an NTK/PCN it is important to check that the Notice fully complies with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 before deciding how to respond of course. The general advice is NOT to appeal to the Private Parking Company as, for example, you may identify yourself as driver and in certain circumstances that could harm your defence at a later stage. However, after following a recent thread on this subject, I have come to the conclusion that, in the case of inputting an incorrect Vehicle Registration Number, which is covered by “de minimis” it may actually HARM your defence at a later stage if you have not appealed to the PPC at the first appeal stage and explained that you DID pay for parking and CAN provide proof of parking, it was just that an incorrect VRN was input in error. Now, we all know that the BPA Code of Practice are guidelines from one bunch of charlatans for another bunch of charlatans to follow, but my thoughts are that there could be problems in court if a judge decides that a motorist has not followed these guidelines and has not made an appeal at the first appeal stage, therefore attempting to resolve the situation before it reaches court. From BPA Code of Practice: Section 17:  Keying Errors B) Major Keying Errors Examples of a major keying error could include: • Motorist entered their spouse’s car registration • Motorist entered something completely unrelated to their registration • Motorist made multiple keying errors (beyond one character being entered incorrectly) • Motorist has only entered a small part of their VRM, for example the first three digits In these instances we would expect that such errors are dealt with appropriately at the first appeal stage, especially if it can be proven that the motorist has paid for the parking event or that the motorist attempted to enter their VRM or were a legitimate user of the car park (eg a hospital patient or a patron of a restaurant). It is appreciated that in issuing a PCN in these instances, the operator will have incurred charges including but not limited to the DVLA fee and other processing costs therefore we believe that it is reasonable to seek to recover some of these costs by making a modest charge to the motorist of no more than £20 for a 14-day period from when the keying error was identified before reverting to the charge amount at the point of appeal. Now, we know that the "modest charge" is unenforceable in law, however, it would be up to the individual if they wanted to pay and make the problem go away or in fact if they wanted to contest the issue in court. If the motorist DOES appeal to the PPC explaining the error and the PPC rejects the appeal and the appeal fails, the motorist can use that in his favour at court.   Defence: "I entered the wrong VRN by mistake Judge, I explained this and I also submitted proof of payment for the relevant parking period in my appeal but the PPC wouldn't accept that"   If the motorist DOES NOT appeal to the PPC in the first instance the judge may well use that as a reason to dismiss the case in the claimant's favour because they may decide that they had the opportunity to resolve the matter at a much earlier stage in the proceedings. It is my humble opinion that a motorist, having paid and having proof of payment but entering the wrong VRN, should make an appeal at the first appeal stage in order to prevent problems at a later stage. In this instance, I think there is nothing to be gained by concealing the identity of the driver, especially if at a later stage, perhaps in court, it is said: “I (the driver) entered the wrong VRN.” Whether you agree or not, it is up to the individual to decide …. but worth thinking about. Any feedback, especially if you can prove to the contrary, gratefully received.
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Claiming Part of Deposit


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I would now sue the agent for the money through small claims court.

 

The tenant has no right to make what is effectively a vexatious claim after this period of time.

7 years in retail customer service

 

Expertise in letting and rental law for 6 years

 

By trade - I'm an IT engineer working in the housing sector.

 

Please note that any posts made by myself are for information only and should not and must not be taken as correct or factual. If in doubt, consult with a solicitor or other person of equal legal standing.

 

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O sounds good. I have a strong suspicion, although I may be wrong, that the agent will just send the deposit back to the tenant. I can't believe that we were their client and we were the ones who weere paying them. I suppose all the agent wants is to be rid of it, as they are not making any money out of it.

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If they just send it back to the tenant in some respects all the better - this will strengthen your case.

7 years in retail customer service

 

Expertise in letting and rental law for 6 years

 

By trade - I'm an IT engineer working in the housing sector.

 

Please note that any posts made by myself are for information only and should not and must not be taken as correct or factual. If in doubt, consult with a solicitor or other person of equal legal standing.

 

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You are welcome. Please do let us know how it pans out - I think the agents actions are ridiculous here, and I very very strongly suspect that there is an ulterior motive (i.e. they are holding onto the deposit as long as possible).

7 years in retail customer service

 

Expertise in letting and rental law for 6 years

 

By trade - I'm an IT engineer working in the housing sector.

 

Please note that any posts made by myself are for information only and should not and must not be taken as correct or factual. If in doubt, consult with a solicitor or other person of equal legal standing.

 

Please click the star if I have helped!!

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The agent did email today to say she is holding onto the deposit until told to give it up by the courts. So I was wrong about her giving it to the tenant. It amazes me as it is not theirs to keep. I do suspect that she is actually not terribly competent. Will keep you updated, the letter went out to them today asking for the deposit by 15 November.

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  • 4 months later...

MrShed, after we sent the letter you suggested regarding going to court it seems to have woken the agents up a bit. We are now talking to a more senior person and he has contacted the ex tenant. We have just received the following from the husband. He fails to understand that they were in breach of contract by not cleaning the house on leaving and also by installing all the Sky boxes etc without permission. Goodness knows what he is talking about regarding the curtains. The last sentence is threatening!! I don't know where we go from here. This is what we got from the agent, I don't know what the agent said to the ex tenannt at the moment.

 

 

As I have mentioned to you previously, we are speaking of a quote and not a document evidencing real expenses incurred by the landlord. Furthermore, none in relation to this quote points to dilapidations we would have caused.

 

The only objective documents in this regard are the move in and move out reports

The move in report clearly establishes that none of the walls had been freshly painted or fitted with new wall paper and makes also clearly mention of existing marks, nails or pins.

 

I also understand that the landlord complains about removal of smal boxes and cables which were installed so that we could benefit from proper TV, internet and telephone access which is today a normal standard in a house. This was professionally installed and we are speaking of a box in the lounge, and a few connecting cables for the loft room and bed1/ensuite. The removal of such cables does not justify at all a complete repainting of a room.

 

Based on these two elements, I have reviewed the quote and have come to the following conclusions.

 

There is no justification that we should bear costs for repaintung for the hall stairs landing, dining room, kitchen/adjacent breakfast room,and bath. Some the walls were already significantly marked when we moved in (hall, stairs landing in particular) and need in any case to be replaced/repainted.

For the other rooms there has not been dilapidations noted requiring a repainting and this is then simply a redocoration decided by the landlord for which we do not see why we should have a financial liability for it.

 

For the remaing rooms there can be some discussions of a contribution to be made by us based on the move out report and for removing the cables but this can not justify more than contributing to a share of the costs for the repainting.

 

Regarding the curtain cleaning costs, the landlord claims is that they had not been professionally cleaned when moving out. We are not disputing this but the landlord has obviously omitted that the move in report showed the curtains not being professionally cleaned when we moved in while this was a requirement of the lease. Having looked at a sample of cases decided by the dispute service, I have come accross a similar case where the dispute service decided a contribution by the tenants of 25% of such costs.

 

Our view on the whole matter is that we should not recognize anything to the landlord considering that they should refund us some part of the perceived rent for the unacceptable importance of defects encountered during the lease period and the lack of diligent handling of the issues by the landlord (a file in this regard had been submiited during the proceedings with the dispute service). To this we would also add payment of interests for non refund of the undisputed part of the deposit (the landlord has never been able to submit claims that would have amounted to the full deposit).

 

This being said and for the sole sake of bringing the matter promptly to an end without this further dragging on by starting a procedure in court, we are willing to offer:

 

-to waive our claims for refund of part of the rent and for late payment interests

 

-to contribute 50% of the painting costs for the front lounge, bedrooms upstairs and loft room which amounted to a total of £760 as per the quote that is to say £380.

 

-to contribute for the curtain cleaning costs 25% of £140 which would correspond to 35£ but which we are willing to round up to £40.

 

Total contribution to be deducted from the deposit would amount to £420 meaning that the amount of deposit to be refunded to us would amount to £1810.

 

This offer is made without prejudice to our rights to claim for refund of rent and late payment interest in case of non acceptance which would result in us bringing the matter to court.

It is also not any form of recognition of liability from us towards the landlord.

 

If the landlord accepts the proposal we expect to receive a deposit release form first signed by the landlord because we do not want to experience what happened when the matter was brought to the dispute service service when the landlord just before a conclusion was reached decided to withheld its signature)

 

Dear Fraser, I hope you will be able to convince the landlord to accept this offer and your efforts in this regard are appreciated

 

If the landlord wished to persist in having unreasonable and unjustified expectations, the matter will end up in court. Having spoken to legal professionals, we have certainly a case for claiming a refund of the rent and the fact that the landlord has prevented the dispute service to decide on this matter a year ago is likely not to play at all in favor of the landlord. They are likely to end up with less than what we are offering.

 

It is unnecessary to come back with a request for higher contribution since in such case we would not considering having anything to lose in going to court. Quite to the contrary the landlord is likely to end up with something less favourable than our offer. >>

 

 

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Can you clarify what they are talking about re: refund of rent?

 

Also, was the agent performing a full management service or a find a tenant service only? I suspect the former.

7 years in retail customer service

 

Expertise in letting and rental law for 6 years

 

By trade - I'm an IT engineer working in the housing sector.

 

Please note that any posts made by myself are for information only and should not and must not be taken as correct or factual. If in doubt, consult with a solicitor or other person of equal legal standing.

 

Please click the star if I have helped!!

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In addition, I notice they talk about you "preventing the use of a dispute scheme" - on what basis are they saying this, and have they given any explanation as to why they have only decided to try and pursue this some 2 years later?

7 years in retail customer service

 

Expertise in letting and rental law for 6 years

 

By trade - I'm an IT engineer working in the housing sector.

 

Please note that any posts made by myself are for information only and should not and must not be taken as correct or factual. If in doubt, consult with a solicitor or other person of equal legal standing.

 

Please click the star if I have helped!!

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Sorry to multi-post....

 

The issue has changed somewhat here as well from initial posting.

 

We are now back to a "standard" dilapidation dispute.

 

As such, you now need to quantify the damages that were caused by the outbound tenant. Was the "quoted" work carried out?

7 years in retail customer service

 

Expertise in letting and rental law for 6 years

 

By trade - I'm an IT engineer working in the housing sector.

 

Please note that any posts made by myself are for information only and should not and must not be taken as correct or factual. If in doubt, consult with a solicitor or other person of equal legal standing.

 

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1. We haven't a clue what they are talking about on the rent. When we asked the agent he didn't know either but is checking.

2. Also it seems that the quote for the redecorating for £1,400 was nothing to do with us it was for someone else. We never asked for total decoration.

3. The agent was supposed to be performing a full management service, taking a percentage of the rent.

4. Preventing the use of the dispute scheme is totally wrong as well. It is as I explained originally. I should say the person who wrote it (the ex tenant's husband) is French so it may be a misunderstanding.

5. We are not sure what the agent said to the ex tenant which does not help. They are supposed to be giving us the details.

6. The Sky box etc are still installed so we have not carried out that work, the house has not been rented out since though. As the house is wallpapered it will make a mess uninstalling the cabling etc. The re-decoration was only for making good.

7. Also the bit about the curtains is not in the lease either.

 

It did seem they were talking about a totally different house!! Thanks so much for your interest. I think I am more muddled now than when we started. I should say the agent has been very supportive, although he has added to the muddle I feel.

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I think that they have added to the muddle as well.

 

If you havent made good you cant claim from the deposit - the deposit is only there it cover ACTUAL financial losses incurred.

7 years in retail customer service

 

Expertise in letting and rental law for 6 years

 

By trade - I'm an IT engineer working in the housing sector.

 

Please note that any posts made by myself are for information only and should not and must not be taken as correct or factual. If in doubt, consult with a solicitor or other person of equal legal standing.

 

Please click the star if I have helped!!

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We have made good on other damage and cleaning, but had left the cabling until we could sort out the deposit. Perhaps we should just say yes to their offer, as this could carry on for ever, as it does seem that the agents are either telling the ex tenants rubbish who the ex tenants are misunderstanding things or both!! I suppose at least the ex tenant is admitting liability by making an offer.

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I think at this stage (without obviously being in possession of the check in/out paperwork, and without seeing the property myself) you may well be wise to simply accept the offer and move on.

 

Alternatively, you could invite them to sue - some of the things they are saying are ludicrous, such as rent being due (from re-reading on the basis of dilapidations, which would just be a no go at this stage for them) and blocking their attempts to retrieve/dispute the deposit, which is again plain silly.

 

It depends upon whether the agent will release the deposit though.

7 years in retail customer service

 

Expertise in letting and rental law for 6 years

 

By trade - I'm an IT engineer working in the housing sector.

 

Please note that any posts made by myself are for information only and should not and must not be taken as correct or factual. If in doubt, consult with a solicitor or other person of equal legal standing.

 

Please click the star if I have helped!!

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As the ex tenant lives in France (she is an American lawyer and the husband is French) it should be interesting to see them sueing us. Particularly as they have done nothing for two years until the agent contacted them. On the other hand I may be old and grey by the time we ever sort it out otherwise, so it may be worth just getting on with our lives and taking the money offered.

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Thats it - I think at this stage it comes down to your personal choice.

 

Any judge is likely to frown upon the timescales that have resulted due to the tenant. However, it doesnt form a point of law so although frowned upon it SHOULDNT affect the judgement. You are likely, after the time delay and on the basis of some of the emails bandied about, to find it very difficult to prove damages and reductions - and the onus would be on you to prove.

 

As such, and as I am a fan of an easy life(!), I personally would be inclined to draw a line under the whole sorry saga and take the offered money.

7 years in retail customer service

 

Expertise in letting and rental law for 6 years

 

By trade - I'm an IT engineer working in the housing sector.

 

Please note that any posts made by myself are for information only and should not and must not be taken as correct or factual. If in doubt, consult with a solicitor or other person of equal legal standing.

 

Please click the star if I have helped!!

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