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    • what rights of access do you have on your agreement with the landlord?   i suspect you shouldn't have to pay a thing.
    • then there is your proof to them why would you pay for BB twice!!   for my notes: GENERAL NOTES ON CHARGEBACK & Continuous Payment Authority & BACS   .....  We have been telling people to put a letter into their bank instructing them  not to make any payments under any circumstances to these companies  . http://whatconsumer.co.uk/visa-debit-chargeback/- it works! usually this should be done using the number on your debit card  .  banks MUST follow written intructions from their customers ! . CANCELLING YOUR DEBIT CARD DOES NOT STOP CPA'S  .  This fsa guide has now been updated:  . http://www.fsa.gov.uk/static/pubs/consumer_info/know_your_rights_guide.pdf http://www.fca.org.uk/news/continuous-payment-authorities-your-right-to-cancel https://www.fca.org.uk/consumers/unauthorised-payments-account  .  Here's the text:  .  Cancelling a regular  card payment:  .  When you give your credit or debit card details to a company and authorise them to take regular payments from your account,   such as for a gym membership or magazine subscription,  it is known as a ‘recurring transaction’ or ‘continuous payment authority’.  . These are often confused with direct debits, but do not offer the same guarantee if the amount or date of the payment changes.  .  In most cases, regular payments can be cancelled by telling the company taking the payments.   .  However,   you have the right to cancel them directly with your bank or card issuer by telling it that you have stopped permission for the payments.   Your bank or card issuer must then stop them – it has no right to insist that you agree this first with the company taking the payments.  .  Be aware, though, that you will still be responsible for paying any money that you owe. and that CANCELLING YOUR CARD WILL NOT STOP THE CPA  .  ..  .  New june 2013  .  Regulator orders Banks and mutuals to review complaints about not cancelling recurring payments from November 2009.  .  Consumers who have set up a regular payment from their account will now be able to successfully cancel that arrangement   by contacting their card provider, the Financial Conduct Authority said.  .  The FCA has been examining how easy it is for customers to cancel Continuous Payment Authorities (CPAs)   due either to payday lendersicon or for other regular payments such as subscriptions or gymicon memberships.  .  CPAs, which are also commonly called recurring transactions or recurring payments,   are relatively easy to set up but can be hard to cancel, causing problems for consumers trying to manage their finances,the FCA said.  .  Now, following the FCA review of how the largest high street banks and mutuals process requests to cancel CPAs, they have agreed that they will ensure that when   a customer asks for a recurring payment to end, that will be sufficient to cancel the arrangement. They have also confirmed that should a payment go through by   mistake following cancellation by a customer the customer will be refunded immediately.  .  In addition to securing this commitment, the largest banks and mutuals have agreed to review every individual complaint they have received about the non-  cancellation of a CPA and to pay redress where payments have continued to be made despite the customer cancelling the arrangement. This applies to all complaints   since November 2009 when the Financial Services Authority, the FCA’s predecessor, began regulating banking conduct.  .  Clive Adamson, the FCA’s director of supervision, said: “It’s important that consumers are confident that banks are meeting their everyday banking needs. Today   customers can be confident that when they ask for a Continuous Payment Authority to be cancelled – it will be cancelled - and that it can be done easily.   . “We recognise that historically this is an area where some customers have struggled but the banks and mutuals have responded positively to our work on this issue.   From now on we expect them to be getting this right. In addition, they have committed to review past complaints.” .  .  Also mentioned your displeasure that as whomever took your money had obviously attempted this many times   probably activating your banks own anti fraud software - nobody had the decency to inform my you this was going on.? .  .In the FSA's own words:  .  ..  What should I do about a payment from my account that I didn’t authorise?  .  Your bank must refund an unauthorised transaction.   Money can only be taken from your account if you have authorised the transaction   or if your bank can prove you were at fault –  . see below.  Contact your bank immediately if you notice an unauthorised payment from your account. .  If you are sure you did not authorise the payment, you can claim a refund.  .  However, your bank does not have to refund you if you do not tell it about the payment until 13 months  or more after the date it left your account.  .  Your bank must refund an unauthorised transaction  .  ------------------  .  Your bank may only refuse a refund for an unauthorised transaction if:  .  ? it can prove you authorised the transaction  – though your bank cannot simply say that use of your password,   card and PIN proves you authorised a payment; or .  ? it can prove you are at fault because you acted fraudulently,   or because you deliberately,   or with gross negligence, failed to protect the details of your card, PIN or password in a way that allowed the transaction  .  -----------------------  .  How quickly must my bank refund me for an unauthorised transaction?  .  The bank must make the refund immediately unless it has evidence that one of the above reasons applies.   Your bank may ask you to answer some questions and fill out a form confirming what has happened,   but it cannot delay your refund while it waits for you to return the form.  If the bank has evidence that one of the above reasons for refusing a refund applies,   it may investigate before making a refund   but must look into it as quickly as possible.   If your bank rejects your claim for a refund it should explain why.  If the transaction was on a credit card, the refund may not happen immediately.   But the card issuer cannot charge interest or ask for repayment of the amount unless it can prove you are liable to pay        
    • Only asking because I want to get my facts right before I approach the bank! Yes, BT is coming out of the same account.
    • not if they want to make the OP the named claimant no!! let them take the other party to court themselves!! the op can be a witness then..   one bitten...read this thread..      
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    • Hi,  
      I was in Sainsbury’s today and did scan and shop.
      I arrived in after a busy day at work and immediately got distracted by the clothes.
       
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      • 16 replies
Guest HeftyHippo

slightly academic play on 'right to offset'

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Guest HeftyHippo

just been reading one of my credit card agreements, and it has the clause that the bank can

 

"use any credit balance on any other account you hold with us to reduce or repay any sums you fail to pay under this agreement..." they go on to say they will inform me asap if they do

 

now, they actually paid off this card by withdrawing from my current ac which was already over my OD limit, then closed the credit card and the current account and trasnferred both to a DCA (and they neither told me they had used my current ac to pay the CC, or told me they had closed either account!)

 

Now, this is a bit academic I suppose, but does the fact they withdrew on a debit balance rather tan credit actually affect things?

 

The CC was defaulted with a bad DN, and the overdraft CC was closed without any DN at all.

 

I feel they lost the balance of the CC other than the arrears because of the defectrive DN, and also maybe they lost the overdraft because they didn't issue a DN (but not sure), but wonder if the offset they applied changes things or gives me other arguments about them breaking the agreement maybe of the current account which probably has a similar term

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How can they draw down on a minus balance, seems like they paid your CC debt with their own money, so write and tell em to take running jump


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Guest HeftyHippo
How can they draw down on a minus balance, seems like they paid your CC debt with their own money, so write and tell em to take running jump

 

lmao

 

if i did that, it wouldn't make any difference as the repudiated the agreement anyway. If I could make a case that they somehow broke their rights to have the overdraft paid because of their withdrawal, but in making the offset they paid off the card arrears, then they wouldn't get the card arrears due under their repudiation and wouldnt get the overdraft back either.

 

Seems fuunny they complained so much when i was £50 over my overdraft limit, but then added on two grand from my CC and didnt say anything about it, or even tell me they had closed both accounts - I found out 3 months later when I CCAed them

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Don't you find it strange that they paid an a/c covered by CCA 1974 by one that wasn't then proceeded to pursue for monies owed?


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Guest HeftyHippo
Don't you find it strange that they paid an a/c covered by CCA 1974 by one that wasn't then proceeded to pursue for monies owed?

well no, I never find it strange that they break yet another law/rule/guideline/element of fair business practice. I quite expect it from all of them.

 

In this case though, overdrafts are covered by the CCA, and as I was already in negative balance, they can't say the offset was applied against the current account, the money came straight from the overdraft.

 

I do understand what you say though, but when they made the transfer, they closed both accounts and transferred the money to a DCA so I'm not sure if it was just a genuine attempt at housekeeping by incompetent staff or that they were deliberately being underhand. Theyre always underhand, its just a case of whether its deliberate or not

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This sounds awful, and I bet if you were well off and could afford to take Legal Advice, you would find out just how underhand they have been. Have you tried a formal complaint to the FOS?


Every journey begins with a single step :):)

 

Please note: I have no qualifications in this area - my advice is learned from the wonderful members of this Forum. Thanks to you all for your help.

 

If you have found my post helpful please leave a short message by clicking the star to the left of my profile - Thank You

 

The only person entitled to your Personal Finance details is a Judge not a DCA

 

Move all banking activity to another banking group if you have a dispute - your funds can be used to offset debts within the same group.

Be careful with Banking details (card/account numbers) as these can be used to take unauthorised payments.

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Now, this is a bit academic I suppose, but does the fact they withdrew on a debit balance rather tan credit actually affect things?

 

 

IMO since the T&C's permitted them to withdraw on a credit balance and they actually withdrew on a debit balance, they are quite clearly as I suspect you've already concluded in breach of their own T&C's.

 

As it has been transferred to a DCA then I guess technically you can assert your lawful right to setoff and reclaim the current account balance (as an equity) under any assignment made under LOP 1925 if such assignment exists.


As of 03/03/12 please do not under any circumstances wait for my further input or guidance on any current thread or defence of a court claim I might have been involved in on or through Cag.

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Guest HeftyHippo
This sounds awful, and I bet if you were well off and could afford to take Legal Advice, you would find out just how underhand they have been. Have you tried a formal complaint to the FOS?

 

no because I'm not sure what to complain about. In what way have I lost out? what rights have been infringed?

 

I just remmebred, they ddint ransferred to a DCA, it was to a 'debt account'. They still own it so I think its their process of writing it off and engaging DCAs to chase.

 

They could have trasnferred the CC balance to the debt account, and the same with the current ac. They didnt. They trasnferred the CC to the Current ac, then transferred that to the debt ac. Same result, but they broke their own TnCs.

 

As i said, they repudiated the CC so I wonder if there was some way they also lost the rights to the arrears on the CC and to the overdraft. That would make me smile

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In my opinion, I would complain loudly and long to the bank. You would have to go through their complaints procedures before going to the FSO anyway. They appear to have breached their own terms and conditions by taking you over your authorised overdraft (which they shouldn't charge you for, as it's their fault) and additionally taking the money from a negative balance (which their terms and conditions don't seem to allow for) There's 2 breaches there.


I am a lawyer, but I am an academic lawyer. I do not practice as a barrister or solicitor. You should consult a practising Solicitor BEFORE taking any Court or other action

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Guest HeftyHippo
In my opinion, I would complain loudly and long to the bank. You would have to go through their complaints procedures before going to the FSO anyway. They appear to have breached their own terms and conditions by taking you over your authorised overdraft (which they shouldn't charge you for, as it's their fault) and additionally taking the money from a negative balance (which their terms and conditions don't seem to allow for) There's 2 breaches there.

 

The most I would get via teh FSO is an apology from the bank. They transferred the CC balance to the overdraft (which I had already exceeded) and then closed both those accounts, moving the balance to a debt account (as part of their writing off process) for chasing by a DCA. It all happened the same day.

 

Yes they broke their TnC, but did they lose any rights in doing so, and did I suffer any prejudeice as a result?

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Well, you suffered a breach of contract; twice. they used a negative balance - which their terms don't allow them to do - They caused an unauthorised overdraft, which their terms don't allow. You incurred losses? (i.e. charges) If you did, you can recover those from the bankPS They can't put charges on an overdraft that was caused by their charges, if you get what I mean.All that would happen is, they would reinstate the credit card debt which would probably be at a higher rate of interest than the overdraft. They may think that they were doing you a favour. I would definitely complain to the bankThey didn't lose any rights really, they can still ask for the money to be repaid, but they will have to show a Judge that they acted fairly in what they did


I am a lawyer, but I am an academic lawyer. I do not practice as a barrister or solicitor. You should consult a practising Solicitor BEFORE taking any Court or other action

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Guest HeftyHippo

no charges were applied, they closed all both accounts teh same day they didthe transfers

 

I already had an overdraft and was already over the limit for it.

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OK then, they increased an unauthorised overdraft, which they really shouldn't doAs I said, complain to the bank.They still retain the right to collect the "debt"BUTIf they go to CCJ stage, they will have to show they acted fairlyI think they can show this, as they paid off a debt with a higher rate of interest, which left a debt with a lower rateThey could probably argue that this was in your best interestsAs to letting you know they were closing the account, they should have given you the notice stated in their T and C, otherwise you can claim any costs that you incur fior sorting another account (in theory)


I am a lawyer, but I am an academic lawyer. I do not practice as a barrister or solicitor. You should consult a practising Solicitor BEFORE taking any Court or other action

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