Help-Won case for set-aside judgment,but have to pay costs!

[pabrmu]

Hi all,

Appeared this morning to have a default judgment set aside (judgment given in April this year).

The DJ reluctantly set the judgment aside giving me till 13 October to put defence bundle together.

The opposing solicitor asks for costs of £450 and it is awarded to her.

What a great legal system we have where you can win and lose within seconds.

Any comments on this would help.

[sillygirl1]

You can ask for a detailed description of THEIR costs as part of your claim, and counter claim against them... or ask for a CONSENT order stating "Each side CONSENTS to bear their own costs, should the set aside be granted then the Claimant cannot claim costs from the defendant".

[broken arrow]

Hi all,

Appeared this morning to have a default judgment set aside (judgment given in April this year).

The DJ reluctantly set the judgment aside giving me till 13 October to put defence bundle together.

The opposing solicitor asks for costs of £450 and it is awarded to her.

What a great legal system we have where you can win and lose within seconds.

Any comments on this would help.

 

The costs really should have been reserved.

[pabrmu]

Hi,

Thanks sillygirl and broken arrow.The other side had already put in a detailed description of their costs,which the DJ found reasonable.

As it is, I have to put in my defence by 13/10/10 (which shouldn,t be a problem)and pay their costs of £450 by same time(which will be a problem!)

Will I be able to claim back these costs if I win my case?

Any suggestions?

[broken arrow]

Yes when you win you can apply for your costs, including the £75 it cost for the set aside application.

 

Still he should have reserved the costs.

[pabrmu]

Hi broken arrow,

Thanks again. Sorry to be pedantic, but I like to be sure. Can I actually claim back this £450, plus all my other costs if I am successful?

[AndyOrch]

There are various types of cost orders that the Court can make, both at interim hearings and at the end of the case, some of which are detailed in section 8.5 of Practice Direction 43-48.

Costs/Costs in Any Event

 

If this order is made in favour of a party, they are entitled to recover costs in relation to that hearing or application.

Costs in the Case/Costs in the Application

 

These type of orders are usually made at interim hearings and mean that the party entitled to costs at the end of the trial will be entitled to the costs of this part of the proceedings. Thus a party in whose favour such an order is made will only recover costs for this hearing if they are awarded costs at the end of the trial.

Costs Reserved

 

A decision about costs is not made immediately but is instead postponed until a later date. If no later order is actually made, the costs will be the costs in the case.

Claimant's/Defendant's Costs In The Case/Application

 

If a party in receipt of such an order is awarded costs at the end of the case, they may recover costs for this part of the proceedings. If they are not awarded costs following trial, both parties must pay their own costs in relation to this application.

Costs Thrown Away

 

If a judgment or order is set aside, the party who was awarded costs is entitled to those costs that have been incurred as a result. These will include preparing for and attending any hearing at which the judgment was set aside and will also cover the cost of any steps taken to enforce the judgment that was subsequently set aside.

Costs of and Caused By

 

This usually occurs when one party is seeking to amend their statement of case. The party in receipt of this order can recover the costs of preparing for, attending and amending their own statement of case.

Costs Here and Below

 

The order is usually made on appeal and means that the winning party can recover their costs for both the appeal and the hearings at first instance.

No Order As To Costs

 

In this instance, each party involved in the litigation must pay for their own costs.

 

 

 

 

Regards

 

Andy

[Notasniceasjoe]

Very interesting Andy

 

So if, after an SJ hearing, which has been dismissed, the order in the Notice of Allocation to Small Claims Track (Hearing) reads Costs in the Case does that mean that the costs relating to the case when it was unallocated are loaded onto the outcome of the case? I'd presume that the post-allocation costs would be capped at the, what is it, £260 for professional fees etc?

[AndyOrch]

Summary judgment hearing is seperate to the case costs, If the case proceeds its as the Notice of Allocation ie Costs in the Case.

 

 

 

Regards

 

Andy

[pabrmu]

Hi Andy,

Is it possible for you To PM me.

I do not know how this works, but an urgent matter has cropped up which cannot be discussed on an open board.

[AndyOrch]

Hi Pabrmu

 

Unfortunately my PM facility has been withdrawn, however if you pm a site team member i understand they can pm me.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[pabrmu]

Hi Andy, I have pm'd a site member.

Hopefully, they will get in touch with you.

Unfortunately, my adverserial sol has quoted some of my posts to me!

[pabrmu]

Hi Andy,

If the other side is awarded costs as solicitors, and it turns out that they are not solicitors, anyone know the procedures?

[sillygirl1]

A letter to the court manager and judge concerned will be the first step, if they are not solicitors they should not be claiming legal fees in court, and the judge should also be reported to the court manager for an abuse of process.

 

Not too sure what happens next but you should be able to get these costs overturned and if the company are not solicitors you also need to complain to the OFT, Trading Standards and the Information Commissioners office about how they get hold of their data and how they misrepresent themselves.

[pabrmu]

Hi All,

Help would be appreciated.

Cabot were awarded a default judgment in April of this year as I was using a CMC company who totally f----- up!

The CMC eventually passed it to a no win-no fee company who paid for the set aside hearing, which should have been heard in August.

The no win-no fee mob applied on the basis of an illegible CCA.

As it turned out, Morgans turned up on the day with a more legible copy, although only the top half! They had also managed to blank out the words "Morgan Stanley Dean Witter Gold Application". Surprisingly, they also didnt manage to include the bottom half where only I signed and no space for the Creditor to sign!!

Unbelievably, my "barrister" accepted this as a valid agreement.

The no win-no fee mob returned everything to me and advised me to try to come to a settlement with the Creditor.

I had pointed out to them that there was never a default notice issued, but they answered that by saying that as they were only claiming the arrears and not terminating the agreement and demanding the full amount, they did not have to serve a DN.

This was rubbish as they had terminated (by their own admission) and were demanding the full amount.

Needless to say, I have sent a strongly worded letter to the company and await their reply.

Now we get to the point.

I dont really know what happened at the hearing in August, but I have now been given a General Form Of Judgment or Order to say:

'"upon hearing the Solicitor for the Claimant and the Solicitor for the Defendant IT IS ORDERED THAT

1.Matter be adjourned to XX November 2010 with a time estimate of 1 hour

 

2.Costs in the application.

 

I have also received the witness statement from the claimant and a schedule of his costs.

 

I phoned the solicitor and he is under the impression that the set aside hearing will be heard on that date.

Does this mean that I will be given the opportunity to properly argue my case for the set aside?

If so, I need to redraft my own witness statement as opposed to my solicitors one which I have not seen.

Will the judge allow me to do this.

Sorry for the length of this.Any help would be appreciated.

[pabrmu]

Bump.

[pabrmu]

Please help!!

[pabrmu]

Bump

[andrew1]

Hi and welcome to the world of Cabot.

 

First off I would suggest you phone the court office and spell out any concerns you have. The court staff are usually first class in helping you through what the court expects, have the files there and can let you know exactly where you are at.

 

Then it's back to the drawing board I'm afraid and you need to start with a full breakdown of your account. Have you Subject Accessed the card holder and got all your documents? If not do so asap, you can then counterclaim against charges if there are any to claim. You need to have copies of default Notices you have and the dates they were sent, the Notice Of assignment from the card holder to cabot and the hallo and goodbye letters. Build yourself a file of these things if you havene't already done so with the objective of having a 100% picture of what has gone on which lead to this claim coming about.

 

Come back and tell us more about this account once you have spoken to the court and then we can talk you through this as best we can.

 

Sounds like you're going to get your chance...

[pabrmu]

Hi Andrew,

Thanks for looking.

1. I have already spoke to the court, but they said that they were not really sure what happened at the hearing in August! They did suggest that I now apply to have the case moved to my local court, which I have done.

2. I have also spoke to Morgans, who I must say seemed very helpful! They also said that the case should be sent to my local court, and as far as they are concerned, the case was adjourned in August till the November date. Again, they couldn't be sure why as both sets of solicitors were there in August.

3. Even though I am not on the best of terms with "my" solicitors, having sent them 2 letters of complaint for what I consider to be sloppy work, I have written another letter to them to try and find out exactly what happened at the original hearing.

4. Cabot have sent what they consider to be the Agreement, but this was the basis of my defence inasmuch as it was ilegible. At the court, they turned up with a better copy, although it was only the top half and it had been redacted. It had also omitted my signature, with their original copy had, but the copy was without the creditors signature, which makes it unexecuted. I have argued with them on numerous occasions, in correspondence, that I do not consider this to be an enforceable agreement.

5. I have written to Cabot informally, to ask for a Default notice. I could not ask for it pursuant to CPR 31.14 as it has not been mentiond in their POC or their Witness Statement.

6. I will do a SAR forthwith.

7. The original OC MSDW/Goldfish, but should I send the SAR to Cabot?

8. I have correct NOA fron OC and Cabot.

9.Even though no DN or Termination Notice has been issued, in a letter from Morgans dated 29 January 2010, it states: "Your account is currently in default. Despite previous correspondence and requests from us, you have failed to settle this account. Accordingly, the outstanding balance is now payable immediately"

10. In Morgans witness statement, they have sent their "raw data" sheets. There does not seem a mention of DN.

11. The debt is approx £6000 and currently their costs are in excess of £1000.

12. All I want is the chance to fight this myself as the no win-no fee mob seem hopeless and uninterested.

Thanks again for looking.

[pabrmu]

Hi all,

Are you around andrew1?

[andrew1]

not too far away....

[pabrmu]

Hi,

I have today received a reply from my complaint letter to "my Sols" regarding what I consider to be a mis-handling of the case:

 

http://i343.photobucket.com/albums/o473/pabrmu/Adjust1.jpg

http://i343.photobucket.com/albums/o473/pabrmu/Adjust2.jpg

Talk about nice cosy solicitors club!

I think I could quite easy argue their first point re Carey VS HSBC by saying that a reconstruction may be suitable for S77/78 purposes, but not for enforcement purposes.

I would like comments on their second point re the DN. I understood that it had to be in a precsibed form and mention dates.

My solicitors seemed to ignore my points regarding Cabot only supplying half a CCA, no creditor signature and the form being redacted!

[pabrmu]

Hi all,

Just received another letter from "my " solicitors.

I have now found out what happened at the hearing in August.

Apparently,Morgans managed to find a more legible copy (although in my opinion this half agreement is seriously flawed) and the case was adjourned for my sols to review the document. I am now dealing with this myself.

Can someone tell me if I should now reissue a N244, or compose my own witness statement to rebut theirs?

Thanks for reading.

[pabrmu]

Hi all,

after a few letters to Morgans, this is their latest offering of gobbledegook.

They seem to have learned a new term of "trite law"

Anyone like to comment?

http://i343.photobucket.com/albums/o473/pabrmu/Morgansletter1.jpg