DCA out of the blue

[AndyRo]

Hello...firstly I must say a huge thankyou for putting time aside to run a great forum such as this. It's been a blessing to find you, it really has.

 

I will try to keep my tale as short as possible as I know theres nothing worse than waffle...I will get to the DCA asap, I promise.

 

I am here on behalf of my parents, Mick 64 and Sue 63. Lovely people.

 

In 1989 they bought a timeshare with a company called LSI, signed all contracts etc and took the payment agreement out over 14yrs iirc. In 1995 they transferred their account over to a company called GVC as they had taken control of LSI. Thats was the last time any contracts or signatures were seen, but the company has changed hands twice since then and is now in the hands of a company called Diamond Resorts International who re-wrote the rule book so to speak. After completing their 14yr repayment term the annual management charges would still be payable of course. In may 2008 after Mick and Sue had both retired they wrote to DRI to inform them they could no longer afford to be members and would like to excercise their right to rescind membership with 7days notice as per their GVC contract, no correspondance had been received to discuss or even suggest the rules had changed. They refused to accept the letter by replying 12 months later, stating they do not accept resignations and they are bound by their contract until 2054, the management charges have risen by more than 700% since day one btw. This was replied to by us in a similar fashion and again by them with a carbon copy of the first letter...this last letter was sent to us in August 2009. Not heard anything again until today we got an email from a DCA asking for an immediate payment of £3414, to avoid court proceedings etc.

 

As you can imagine this was quite a shock, the debt is most certainly in dispute, not only because we, by right, have not been members for the last 2 yrs and as such these payments are void, but also because we have had no correspondence from DRI to inform us of any amount they think we owe, or that the imaginary debt was being passed onto a DCA.

 

I would very much appreciate an opinion of what I do next in regards to the DCA, what step should I take. I want to ignore them...I was under the impression they are not permitted to take me to court or to even suggest they could/would.

 

As you can imagine I have issues with the timeshare company to deal with, the DCA is just an annoyance I could do without. I certainly won't be paying them anything, feel quite annoyed by the tactics of both parties tbh.

 

Many thanks in advance

[silverfox1961]

Hi and welcome to CAG

Timeshare is one of the things we very rarely see here so I will try to help on the DCA front (you are allowed to name them)

 

In the first instance, I would send a prove it letter. This is here:

 

http://www.consumerforums.com/resources/templates-library/86-debt-collectors.html Letter 18

 

Don't sign the letter and send it by recorded delivery.

 

DCA's very rarely have the paperwork to back up their claim. They have to get them from the original creditor, which takes time

 

It may be that (should the time arise) you will need to send a SAR to Diamond Resorts for all the data they hold. (There may be a case for unfair relationship in the contract but that is for another time)

[AndyRo]

Thanks silverfox, although I can't seem to access the letter template in your link. It keeps asking me to register and when I login it returns me to main index page.

The DCA is Daniels Silverman.

I have a copy of the email on photobucket.

[Mr lex]

Hi Andy and a big welcome to the Consumer Action Group ! ,

 

Silverfox is right, you need to send an Account in Dispute letter. Our templates are being rewriten at the moment and all the links may not work !!

 

So here we go ;-

 

A letter used when a debt collection agency contacts you about an unknown debt. Red script is editable

 

 

Name/Address:

 

Date:

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

You have contacted me/us regarding the account with the above reference number, which you claim is owed by myself/ourselves.

 

I/we would point out that I/we have no knowledge of any such debt being owed to (insert company name).

 

I am/we are familiar with the CPUTR 2008 and the Office of Fair Trading's Guidance on debt collection, which states that it unfair to send demands for payment to an individual when it is uncertain that they are the debtor in question.

 

I/we would also point out that the OFT say under the Guidance that it is unfair to pursue third parties for payment when they are not liable. AND in not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonably queried or disputed debt you are using deceptive/and or unfair methods.

 

Furthermore ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment amounts to physical/psychological harassment.

 

I/we would ask that no further contact be made concerning the above account unless you can provide evidence as to my/our liability for the debt in question.

 

I/we await your written confirmation that this matter is now closed. Otherwise I will have no option but to make a complaint to Trading Standards and also inform the Office Of Fair Trading of your actions.

 

I/we look forward to your reply.

 

Yours faithfully

 

Please only print your name never sign it !!!!!

 

Hope this helps

 

Lex

[AndyRo]

Many thanks to you. I will do so immediately.

 

A little bit of history which may interest you. Since the end of 2008 on a couple of Penland and Sommerland blogs, there hae been 1500 or so DRI members from all over the world, who have been getting the same treatment from the company and talk through their experiences and share advice etc, there are even ex DRI staff on there helping. To this day nobody on there has received any contact from a DCA, the usual line is something like this "I wouldn't worry, there is no way a debt revovery agency would be rash enough to take on such a case..it will never happen." Well it happened...to us...yesterday. This Liverpool firm seem to be confident of taking on the world it seems.

[cerberusalert]

A bit of info regarding Silvermans http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?207371

[AndyRo]

Thankyou, I have read that already, it was one of the first search results when I put their company name into google. It's how I found your site. They have rang teh house today and left an answerphone message. We posted out the letter this morning, hopefully it will have the required effect.

[harrassed senior]

Sould their calls become a nuisance there is a telephone harrassment template here:

Re: Harassment by telephone

 

ACCOUNT NUMBER: XXXX

Dear Sirs

I am writing in relation to the quantity and frequency of telephone calls that I have received from your company, which I deem to be personally harassing.

I have verbally requested that these stop, but I am still receiving calls. (Delete if necessary)

I now require all further correspondence from your company to be made in writing only.

I am of the view that your continued harassment of me by telephone puts you in breach of Section 40 of the Administration of Justice Act 1970, and the Protection from Harassment Act 1997.

If you continue to harass me by telephone, you will also be in breach of the Communications Act (2003) s.127 and I will report you to OFCOM, Trading Standards and The Office of Fair Trading, meaning that you will be liable to a substantial fine.

Be advised that any further telephone calls from your company will be recorded. (**Even if you don‘t yet have recording equipment!!**)

Yours faithfully,

[NAME HERE]

 

Section 40 of the Administration of Justice Act

“S40 Punishment for unlawful harassment of debtors.

A person commits an offence if, with the object of coercing another person to pay money claimed from the other as a debt due under a contract he- harasses the other with demands for payment which, in respect of their frequency, or the manner or occasion of making any such demand, or of any threat or publicity by which any demand is accompanied, are calculated to subject him or members of his family or household to alarm, distress or humiliation; falsely represents, in relation to the money claimed, that criminal proceedings lie for failure to pay it; falsely represents himself to be authorised in some official capacity to claim or enforce payment; or utters a document falsely represented by him to have some official character, or purporting to have some official character which he know it has not.

A person may be guilty of an offence by virtue of sub-section (1) (a) above if he concerts with others in the taking of such actions as is described in that paragraph, notwithstanding that his own course of conduct does not by itself amount to harassment.”

[AndyRo]

Thankyou senior, it is only day 2 but they have rung both days so far so will keep that in mind.

[Mr lex]

Hi Andy,

 

It would be good to keep a log of the time and date of these calls, as per HS's letter above.

 

Lex

[AndyRo]

I will do Mr. Lex...I think the first 2 messages are still on the answerphone so will write down the times/dates today and carry it on if they continue to phone.

[AndyRo]

Hello again guys, so we sent them the "prove it" letter 3 weeks ago and have not heard anything from them until today. We received another letter this morning. It is a little limp wristed tbh, almost apologetic in it's wording. It basically outlines what the debt is supposedly for and how they would very much appreciate it if we contacted them to clear it. I'm quite confident in our position (thanks to you guys) but my question is would it be the right thing to ignore the letter or should we reply outlining our position?, which is that the debt is in question and as such should not be paid at all, let alone to the dca, who by all rights should not have even been involved.

 

Many thanks in advance.

[Mr lex]

Hi Andy,

 

I think you should ask for ALL the information they hold on you, that will probably see them off.

Send the following letter, it will cost you £10. You still deny the debt of course !!

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/content.php?417-A-Subject-Access-Request-for

 

Other people may have other ideas, so hold fire and lets see what comes up.

 

Never sign anything to a DCA

 

Lex

[silverfox1961]

Agreed. If you have to mention the dreaded word "debt", always precede it with "alleged"

 

Remember, they have to prove you owe it. You cannot, nor should not, prove you don't

 

The problem I see is that to SAR a DCA is at times fruitless as they hold very little information on this debt. It can bring fruit though but I would usually SAR the original owner. As the timeshare has changed hands a few times, you would need to write to the newest one.

What would be ideal is copies of all the contracts and updated terms or variations

[AndyRo]

Thankyou Mr. Lex. I was wondering if it was the right time for that one. I will hol dfire and see if anyone else has an idea, and will prepare a draft of the above letter. You have been a great help. Thankyou.

[AndyRo]

Agreed. If you have to mention the dreaded word "debt", always precede it with "alleged"

 

Remember, they have to prove you owe it. You cannot, nor should not, prove you don't

 

The problem I see is that to SAR a DCA is at times fruitless as they hold very little information on this debt. It can bring fruit though but I would usually SAR the original owner. As the timeshare has changed hands a few times, you would need to write to the newest one.

What would be ideal is copies of all the contracts and updated terms or variations

 

 

I'm so sorry silverfox, I did not see you had replied yesterday. Thankyou for your reply, should I sar the dca now then..? Is it not something I can do to both of them, but I would rather keep the sar back for the timeshare cowboys until they next choose to get in contact, they tend to leave it a good 6 months or so before re-threatening us, and it is getting very tiring tbh.

 

It's a shame you do not have more timeshare victims on here, as the companies such as DRI really do make their own rules up and I would imagine a collective such as yourselves could offer some very important advice to those of us suffering a life sentence for wanting a cheap holiday now and again.

[silverfox1961]

It is debateable sending a DCA a SAR. The amount of info they have is substantially less than the original creditor BUT it can be useful to see if the DCA is bulls****ing you.

Most DCA's are given a name, address, date of birth(?) and debt amount-that's it. Once someone challenges them, they then should get more info but rarely do.

Basically, it's your choice which way to go. SAR DCA, Creditor, both.

[AndyRo]

I have written the letter now but just wanted to check with you guys that I am doing the right thing...as something doesn't quite sit right with me. It doesn't quite make sense. You see, the alleged debt is in total dispute. As far as we are concerned our membership with DRI ceased when we first informed them in 2008, and the charges made after that date were done in contradiction of our right to rescind membership as per our original contract. Is asking for all this info in the SAR the correct course of action do you think...it almost feels like we are semi-accepting the existence of this debt..

 

thanks in advance.

[silverfox1961]

If you have a look around the site you will see that others (including myself) have sent Data Protection Act letters (SAR) to creditors and it has had no adverse affect.

 

If you wish, you can head your letter," I acknowledge no debt to you nor any other company you claim to represent." there is no ambiguity in that statement.

 

All you are asking for is information as allowed under the DPA 1998.

[AndyRo]

Good idea, I will do.... many thanks.

[vistaflix]

Hi there is a web site dedicated to DRI and the timeshare maintenance fee scandal (I Being one of the many hounded) at **************** (deleted on request as new member) available on request

 

it also points to this site for help on letters

 

also the daily mirror has a huge blog of members withe same problem

[AndyRo]

Hi guys....us again.

 

We have received a reply from Daniels Silverman to the SAR request we made, and it's kind of baffling tbh. Was hoping some of you might be able to interpret it's meaning for us. It doesn't provide any of the evidence the SAR clearly asks for, and we were hoping they might be able to provide proof of our original contract but they didn't/couldn't. But they seem to back that up with a reference to a quote within the SAR.

 

Is what they say correct..?

 

This was emailed to us btw, not sent in writing.....not sure if thats relevant.

 

Please help us...we are starting to feel out of our depth, but not unsure of our position I might add.

 

 

not sure why the attachments are so small...sorry about that.

[AndyRo]

anyone?

[Richie_Freedom]

AndyRo.

 

I'm in exactly the same position now as your parents were. Can you give me an update please.

I've just sent you a friends request.

Richie