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Requesting help and advice - County Court claim


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I would like help and advice about how to deal with a County Court claim I have received. My first problem is that the Particulars of Claim are very sparse – I really don’t think I can mount a proper defence without knowing more about what the claim is for.

 

image03.pdf

 

I will return the acknowledgment of service, saying that I intend to defend all of the claim. I also would like to write to the issuing solicitor, asking for full details of their claim. I would welcome any suggestions as to how this letter should be composed.

 

Thanks in advance.

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That's a load of carp, you should send the solicitor this;

 

Dear Sir,

 

CPR 31.14 Request*

 

On (date)I received the Claim Form in this case issued by you out of the (Name) county court. Case No.

 

I confirm having returned my acknowledgement of service to the court in which I indicate my intention to contest all of your claim.

 

Please treat this letter as my request made under CPR 31.14 for the disclosure and the production of a verified and legible copy of each of the following document(s) mentioned in your Particulars of Claim:

 

1. The agreement. You will appreciate that in an ordinary case and by reason of the provisions of CPR PD 16 para 7.3, where a claim is based upon a written agreement, a copy of the contract or documents constituting the agreement should be attached to or served with the particulars of claim and the original(s) should be available at the hearing. Further, that any general conditions incorporated in the contract should also be attached.

 

2. A full statement of account - itemising all interest & charges from the commencement of the alleged agreement to date

 

You should ensure compliance with your CPR 31 duties and ensure that the document(s) I have requested are copied to and received by me within 7 days of receiving this letter. Your CPR 31 duties extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for the originals of the documents I have requested, the better for you to be able to verify the documents' authenticity and to provide me with a legible copy. Further, where I have requested a copy of a document, the original of which is now in the possession of another person, you will have a right to possession of that document if you have mentioned it in your case. You must take immediate steps to recover and preserve it for the purpose of this case.

 

Where I have mentioned a document and there is in your possession more than one version of that same document owing to a modification, obliteration or other marking or feature, each version will be a separate document and you must provide a copy of each version of it to me. Your obligations extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for any version(s) to include an obligation to recover and preserve such version(s) which are now in the possession of a third party.

 

In accordance with CPR 31.15© I undertake to be responsible for your reasonable copying costs incurred in complying with this CPR 31.14 request.

If you require more time in which to comply with this request you must tell me in writing. You must tell me before the time for compliance with this request has expired. In telling me you require more time you must tell me what steps you have taken and propose to take in order to comply with this request and also state a date by when you will comply with this request. In addition your statement must be accompanied with a statement that you agree to an extension of the time for me to file my defence. Your extension of time must be not less than 14 days from the date when you say you will have complied with my request and you must state the new date for filing my defence.

 

If you are unable to comply with this request and believe that you will never be able to comply with this request you must tell me in writing.

 

Please note that if you should fail to comply with this request, fail to request more time or fail to agree to an extension of time for the filing of my defence, I will make an application to the court for an order that the proceedings be struck out or stayed for non-compliance and a summary costs order.

 

I do hope this will not be necessary and look forward to hearing from you.

 

Yours Sincerely, Print name do not sign

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Anthrax alert at debt collectors caused by box of doughnuts

 

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When you acknowledge you want the case transferring to your local court too.

Anthrax alert at debt collectors caused by box of doughnuts

 

Make sure you do not post anything which identifies you. Although we can remove certain things from the site unless it's done in a timely manner everything you post will appear in Google cache & we do not have any control over that.

 

Vir prudens non contra ventum mingit

 

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Now that I’ve stopped laughing... Phoenix is Luxembourg-based – this appears to give the impression they are UK-based.

 

Have you had any correspondence prior to this claim form? Have you any idea what it may be about?

 

Cerbs’s CPR letter is, as usual, spot on, but you may want to offer them the chance to amend their PoC, as it is so vague. I fancy they will run a mile. Phoenix stuff is notoriously uncollectible and normally comes through Bryan Carter, so the likelihood of correct paperwork is practically zero.

“The industry is rotten to the core, whether it is in-house recovery and collection, or where agents are used, or where the debt has been sold.” Andrew Mackinley MP, House of Commons, 22 April 2009

 

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Oh dear sHa_biggrin5.gif

Every journey begins with a single step :):)

 

Please note: I have no qualifications in this area - my advice is learned from the wonderful members of this Forum. Thanks to you all for your help.

 

If you have found my post helpful please leave a short message by clicking the star to the left of my profile - Thank You

 

The only person entitled to your Personal Finance details is a Judge not a DCA

 

Move all banking activity to another banking group if you have a dispute - your funds can be used to offset debts within the same group.

Be careful with Banking details (card/account numbers) as these can be used to take unauthorised payments.

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Keep an eye on the dates as you will still need to submit an 'embarrassed' defence if nothing received. Being Southend, my understanding is that they should have attached more detail to the claim so don't let them get it by default. Ring the court and query why you have received so little info. There is a thread on 'legal issues' concerning this same solicitor.

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link to similar thread I mentioned. There is an additional letter in there that you can send to the solicitor asking them to submit more information

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?278007-Court-Claim-forms-from-Phoenix-REC-UK-LTD-for-a-debt-i-know-nothing-about..help

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  • 2 weeks later...

I sent the suggested letter to the solicitor, and now I have had a reply from them:

 

letter1.pdf

history1.pdf

 

In a nutshell, the background is as follows:

 

Over ten years ago I opened an account with one of the high street banks, and was granted a substantial overdraft. I ran the account within the agreed limit for a number of years. My employment changed and my income reduced. The bank reduced the overdraft limit to a fraction of the previous level. I was unable to make payments to reduce the overdraft to within the new limit. As a result of this the bank closed the account and asked for full repayment. I made a number of payments, but these became smaller and less frequent as the months passed.

 

At present of course I still feel that the information supplied is inadequate, but I do need to submit my defence to the court before my 28 days is up. I would welcome any further suggestions.

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OK - First point - check the paperwork you have received from the Court - have they included their Court Costs on there, which is usual, as I note they have added these amounts, unusually, to your account which they are claiming you owe - very strange.

 

The 'print' out is worth nothing, shows nothing relating definitely to you, anyone could print your name on the top. If that is all they have, then I would still submit the 'embarrassed' defence.

 

Did you send the full CPR Letter?

Every journey begins with a single step :):)

 

Please note: I have no qualifications in this area - my advice is learned from the wonderful members of this Forum. Thanks to you all for your help.

 

If you have found my post helpful please leave a short message by clicking the star to the left of my profile - Thank You

 

The only person entitled to your Personal Finance details is a Judge not a DCA

 

Move all banking activity to another banking group if you have a dispute - your funds can be used to offset debts within the same group.

Be careful with Banking details (card/account numbers) as these can be used to take unauthorised payments.

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This is getting interesting... time for me to unleash my research tools... Fenton Cooper is a sham, for starters!

“The industry is rotten to the core, whether it is in-house recovery and collection, or where agents are used, or where the debt has been sold.” Andrew Mackinley MP, House of Commons, 22 April 2009

 

If a Cagger helps you, click their star. Better still, make a donation however small, so that CAG can continue to help others.

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Fenton Cooper is indelibly linked to Rockwell, which is established on CAG. Same directors etc... but Tessera is a compartment of Phoenix, and the company details have no reference to foreign or overseas divisions – that’s not legal!

 

Fishy. More digging...

Edited by DonkeyB

“The industry is rotten to the core, whether it is in-house recovery and collection, or where agents are used, or where the debt has been sold.” Andrew Mackinley MP, House of Commons, 22 April 2009

 

If a Cagger helps you, click their star. Better still, make a donation however small, so that CAG can continue to help others.

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Suggested holding defence and also a letter to send to the solicitor. I do not know what documentation is needed to support a bank account but I am sure that it is more than you have been given. Feel free to comment/amend:

 

Defence

(Full name and address)

 

1. I £££££££ of £££££££££ am the defendant in this action and make the following statement as my defence to the claim made by xxxxxx.

2. Except where otherwise mentioned in this defence, I neither admit nor deny any allegation made in the claimants Particulars of Claim and put the claimant to strict proof thereof.

3. The claim as pleaded is poor and does not contain sufficient particulars to permit the defendant to file a properly particularised and pleaded defence. Further, no documents supporting the claim in the particulars have been offered. The defendant made a request for disclosure, pursuant to Part 31 of the Civil Procedure Rules, to the claimant to allow the defendant to properly respond to the claim on (date). The claimant has failed to respond to the Part 31 request.

4. The defendant has never held an account with the claimant, and having never received lawful notice of assignment from the claimant, it is denied that the claimant has lawful right of action and the claimant is put to strict proof thereof

5. The defendant respectfully asks the court for permission to amend this defence in the case of further documentation being received from the Claimant.

6. In view of the above, it is denied that the defendant is indebted to the Claimant as alleged or at all.

7.Further to the above, the defendant is unable to plead effectively or at all. The defendant is embarrassed.

 

Statements of Truth

 

I believe that the facts stated in this defence are true.

 

Signed

 

xxxxx

Send copy to Solicitor with the following letter

Dear Solicitor Acting

Claim number : From court form

Claimant v Defendent

 

Herewith copy defence by way of service, the same having been filed with the court.

Please serve amended particulars of claim and plead your client's case in an appropriate manner within 7 days, so that I am aware of the case I will have to meet at trial. I request that you attach to the particulars any documentation upon which the claimant relies. This includes, but is not limited to, any proof of assignment to the claimant.

Failure to provide that requested in the time period provided for will result in application to the court. I confirm a copy of this letter will be produced to the court when the question of costs falls to be decided.

 

Yours Sin (print name...)

Edited by coledog
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You also need to contest the claimants right to action, you never had an account with Phoenix so why are the solicitors launching this claim on behalf of this third party?

Make them prove everything, lawful assignment etc.

 

(I suspect the debt is actually owned by Phoenix recoveries.-> Luxembourg)

As of 03/03/12 please do not under any circumstances wait for my further input or guidance on any current thread or defence of a court claim I might have been involved in on or through Cag.

Jasper1965

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Jasper, is it worth adding this to the defence now or just keep it simple? I am never sure but could add requests for particular documents at this stage??

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Both really introduce the contest but keep it simple at this stage.

"Having never held an account with the claimant, and having never received lawful notice of assignment served in accordance with the LOP 1925 from the claimant, it is denied that the claimant has lawful right of action and the claimant is put to strict proof thereof".

 

Debt was prob purchased by Luxembourg, the UK Phoenix is a recent entity set up as skeleton company to give the Courts the impression that the claim is on behalf of a UK company.

Suspect you need proof of assignment to Phoenix (lux) and again to Phoenix (UK) at the very least. AFAIK Phoenix UK do not purchase any debts they simply pursue them.

As of 03/03/12 please do not under any circumstances wait for my further input or guidance on any current thread or defence of a court claim I might have been involved in on or through Cag.

Jasper1965

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From Companies House.

 

Name & Registered Office:

PHOENIX RECOVERIES (UK) LIMITED

26 WILMOT STREET

LONDON

E2 0BS

Company No. 06756754

 

 

spacer.gifspacer.gifspacer.gifspacer.gif Status: Active - Proposal to Strike off

Date of Incorporation: 24/11/2008

 

Country of Origin: United Kingdom

Company Type: Private Limited Company

Nature of Business (SIC(03)):

7487 - Other business activities

Accounting Reference Date: 30/11

Last Accounts Made Up To: (NO ACCOUNTS FILED)

Next Accounts Due: 24/08/2010 OVERDUE

Last Return Made Up To: 24/11/2009

Next Return Due: 22/12/2010

Last Members List: 24/11/2009

  • Confused 1

As of 03/03/12 please do not under any circumstances wait for my further input or guidance on any current thread or defence of a court claim I might have been involved in on or through Cag.

Jasper1965

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I have amended post 13 to add notice of assignment - thanks

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As far as we know, the Phoenix UK company may not be related – as Jasper points out, it is listed at present for voluntary strike off and has filed no accounts. Don’t get confused – the Luxembourg company has the ‘UK’ in its name to mislead you! It is in no way British.

 

Yes, the debt is clearly owned by Phoenix Luxembourg which ultimately is a division of Carval Investors (not related to Rockwell as far as I can tell). Phoenix has no known proper UK operation (try getting a letter from them, ever!), and they seem to employ a rash of third-rate DCAs to do their threat-monkeying on their behalf. Invariably their paperwork is shabby or non-existent – as in this case. I could have made up that statement; it is no evidence at all. The CPR request should send them packing.

 

Also, they say it is a bank account. I doesn’t look like one – looks more like a printout of a ‘payday’ loan.

“The industry is rotten to the core, whether it is in-house recovery and collection, or where agents are used, or where the debt has been sold.” Andrew Mackinley MP, House of Commons, 22 April 2009

 

If a Cagger helps you, click their star. Better still, make a donation however small, so that CAG can continue to help others.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Thanks very much for the suggested defence and letter to solicitor. I have sent these and both have now been delivered. I will report back when a response comes.

 

Thanks again for your support – it really is invaluable.

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Presume that you have not received anything back from the solicitor?

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That’s it. Over. They have discontinued. You have won.

 

Forget the rest of their blabber. It is not a gesture of goodwill. They have given up, and are hoping you are stupid.

 

They cannot take you to court for this again. But DO check with the court that the discontinuance has been filed.

 

I would suggest a reply along the lines of ‘thank you for advice of your notice of discontinuance. I trust this is the end of the matter, and that I shall not be hearing from you again. In the light of your discontinuance, I shall regard any further contact in this matter as harassment and will report it as such to the OFT and Trading Standards. Now bog off and leave me alone, you bottom-feeding leeches.’

 

You might want to leave out that last bit.

 

Well done.

“The industry is rotten to the core, whether it is in-house recovery and collection, or where agents are used, or where the debt has been sold.” Andrew Mackinley MP, House of Commons, 22 April 2009

 

If a Cagger helps you, click their star. Better still, make a donation however small, so that CAG can continue to help others.

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Nice one Lplates - not even the solicitors knows what this was all about! :clap2:

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