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Jacobs/Business Rates & council tax


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Okay, I have read through thread after thread [including the sticky] but I need a personal reply desperately.

 

I inherited a property which is semi-commercial as well as a semi-detached house. They both have council tax bills, I thought we had 12 month leniency, but I was wrong. The latter property needed work, it took longer [and was more expensive] than we anticipated - it is now rented out after a almost 18 month ordeal. The semi-commercial property was paid from via solicitors from March.

 

I let a bailiff come in my house to discuss payment options, but he refused point blank anything. Yes, stupid me!

 

Anyway, we got a letter:

 

Notice of force entry Entry and Remove Goods

 

We refer to our notice seizure of Goods and Inventory dated 8/9/2010 {Please note I did not get an Inventory or sign anything}

 

We will be re-attending at 0800-1900 on Friday 24/09/2010 to remove said Goods

 

Please ensure you are home to proceed with removal.

 

Please note: If you are not at home we will utilize the services of a locksmith to gain entry to your home and the removal of goods will proceed in your absence.

 

[then signed and dated at the end]

 

All in big red scary letters.

 

What upset me the most is that this letter was sat on my coffee table. My backdoor was left unlocked, so therefore the person has gone down the side-passage and come through my backdoor. I am REALLY angry and upset.

 

Again I haven't signed anything, had an inventory of goods. But, this letter is frightening and distressing me. Had alot to cope with recently. My son as Doose Syndrome - a form of epilepsy and is on DA for it. Been a hard 12 months, he has regular daily seizures.

 

I just need reassurance they cannot do anything, and what is my best option? I intend to go the council in person asap.

Edited by Kefte
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Are you saying the NNDR has been paid and they are just after the Council Tax for the residential part of the property?

 

Your son's condition most certainly gives you grounds to be classed as "vulnerable", you will need to advise the Bailiffs of this. You will more than likely need a letter from your GP or other health professional to prove this.

 

When you let your newest best mate in did he write anything down or touch anything? Did he give you anything at all on that visit? How many visits have they made?

 

Although they may have given you a date that they are coming back you do not have to let them in - maintain a siegelike mentality for the forseeable future. Speak to him only through the letterbox or upstairs window and try and record the conversation. To force entry he needs an Order from the Court and these are very rarely given. At this point the use of a locksmith is just a veiled threat.

 

PT

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If the property is commercial and the debt is biz rates then bailiffs CAN and DO break into it to seize goods.

 

Its unlikely they will break in if its a private dwelling. If the property is vacant then lock the door and put the chain on then leave the property via the back door. If you have an alarm then set it, even better if your alarm is the older firebell type. bailiffs hate alarms attacting attention.

 

Im not sure what you mean by semi commercial. is it a pub with staff accommodation? a shop with a flat? They are usually taxed separately.

 

if the debt is not biz rates then get an incident number from the police and notify that a threat to commit breaking and entering has been made as this may be contrary to Section 40(1)(d) of the Administration of Justice Act 1970. http://www.opsi.gov.uk/RevisedStatutes/Acts/ukpga/1970/cukpga_19700031_en_5#pt5-l1g26 To bring a locksmith or his tools to a property with intent to break into it is an offence under Section 25 of the Theft Act 1968 http://www.opsi.gov.uk/RevisedStatutes/Acts/ukpga/1968/cukpga_19680060_en_2#pb5-l1g29

Professional property investor and conveyancer

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There are business rates for the commercial premises/shop and council tax for a completely separate property. My brother lives in the flat above the shop and the council tax is paid for. The commercial premises is completely empty and been closed since March 2009. So they cannot enter my home for business rates then? [i apologise I confused by addressing it as "semi-commercial"]..

 

They didn't come back on the date noted - surprise, surprise.

 

My son gets the middle class of disability allowance, do you think that will do as proof?

 

 

"When you let your newest best mate in did he write anything down or touch anything? Did he give you anything at all on that visit? How many visits have they made?""

 

He basically sat down on the sofa, said he wanted it ALL paid by this date else he would removes goods. Wrote be another warning letter with the date on. Reprimanded me for ignoring him and for being a terrible person for not paying my taxes.

 

Really annoys me that they only give you 6 months without paying any council tax/rates, I know of a couple of situations where it has put people in incredible hardship - they let people who don't work not pay council tax, surely there should be situations where people who acclaim second homes should have leniency too or allowed time for sales etc...

 

The only thing I'm confused about is who I should send a letter too regarding payment, I know they so don't give a penny to the bailiffs but surely I need to pay any fees I've incurred -even though I don't want too.

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Fork-it said:

 

"If the property is commercial and the debt is biz rates then bailiffslink3.gif CAN and DO break into it to seizelink3.gif goods."

 

*******PEDANT ALERT******

 

I know what you are saying but in case anyone misunderstands, they CANNOT force entry to "seize" goods, only to recover goods previously "seized" via a walking possession agreement / levy.

 

I appreciate they have the levy in place in this case, but just want to reiterate that they cannot force entry without previous peaceful entry.

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You are thinking of council tax & traffic fines.

 

This is Biz rates, completely different rules.

 

No - Same rules regarding forced entry, prior levy must be in place.

 

The only cases where a bailiff can for entry with no prior levy is A) Magistrates Fine and B) Forfiet of lease

 

get your facts straight before posting.

 

EDIT - Forgot to say, before its pointed out, HCEO can force entry with no prior levy, but were talking bailiff here not HCEO.

Edited by BLF
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BLF

 

I'm glad we agree, but Fork-it is pretty useful and usually correct. We all get things wrong on here and get corrected in due course - that's how it works, like a collective 'brain'.

It's often more informative to witness a debate / argument than a factually correct statement. That's why i start so many of them!!!!:wink:

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EDIT - Forgot to say, before its pointed out, HCEO can force entry with no prior levy, but were talking bailiff here not HCEO.

 

Just to keep it correct HCEO can effect entry in above situation providing the premises are not connected to the residence of the debtor ie flat above or adjoining.

 

PT

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get your facts straight before posting.

 

 

Care to post the facts as you understand them and perhaps the source?

 

TGP I have PMmed you with my source.

Professional property investor and conveyancer

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