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Philpatt

Court Claim forms from Phoenix REC UK LTD for a debt i know nothing about..help

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Firstly, thanks to cerberusalert for pointing me in the right direction.

 

I have received a County Court Claim as follows:

 

I have posted my AOS, recorded delivery... Disputing the whole claim.

 

In the SOUTHEND COUNTY COURT ISSUED ** *** 2010

 

Claimant

PHOENIX REC UK LTD SARL TESSERA

5TH FLOOR MAITLAND HOUSE WARRIOR SQUARE

SOUTHEND ON SEA ESSEX SS1 2JS

 

Address for sending documents and payments

CHRISTOPHER PINNION & CO

5TH FLOOR MAITLAND HOUSE

SOUTHEND ON SEA ESSEX SS1 2JS

 

01702 460041

xxxxxxxx

 

Defendant

MY NAME and ADDRESS

 

The claimant claims 250, such sum being arrears of instalments due under an agreement made (the Agreement) whereby the Defendant agreed to pay the Claimant 50 per week off a sum of 13,000 being then outstanding under Account Number ********. For avoidance of doubt, the Claimant affirms the Agreement. This claim is solely for the repayments missed by the Defendant in breach of the Agreement. The Defendant remains liable for making monthly repayments under thee Agreement until the outstanding debt is repaid.

 

****************************************************

 

I have not entered into an agreement with them regarding instalments. I have not paid anybody any money in over 4 years. So how I can be 5 months in arrears. I have never heard of PHOENIX. This claim also does not identify the original creditor.

 

I have checked with companies house and found the only entry that resembles this company as follows

 

Name & Registered Office:

PHOENIX RECOVERIES (UK) LIMITED

26 WILMOT STREET

LONDON E2 0BS

Company No. 06756754

Status: Active - Proposal to Strike off

Date of Incorporation: 24/11/2008

Country of Origin: United Kingdom

Company Type: Private Limited Company

Nature of Business (SIC(03)):

7487 - Other business activities

Accounting Reference Date: 30/11

Last Accounts Made Up To: (NO ACCOUNTS FILED)

Next Accounts Due: 24/08/2010 OVERDUE

Last Return Made Up To: 24/11/2009

Next Return Due: 22/12/2010

Last Members List: 24/11/2009

Previous Names:

No previous name information has been recorded over the

last 20 years.

UK Establishment Details

There are no UK Establishments associated with this company.

Oversea Company Info

There are no Oversea Details associated with this company.

 

I don't know if this the same company, I can't find any others similar.

 

My current situation is that I have no assets, no home of my own and the address they have is my previous address. I do not claim any benefits or other assistance.

 

I would be grateful for any advice.

Edited by Philpatt
Info too detailed, could identify me

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we've had these jokers pulling this stunt before on here with a member i'm sure....

 

search for their name here under advance search tab

 

now

 

have you checked you credit file , does that give any clues?

 

you have done the right thing so far by AOS

you've got 28days now i think to file a defence or get it knocked out of court.

 

i have slightly changed your thread title to gain more help and tidied thread too

 

dx


please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

if everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's tomorrow

the biggest financial industry in the UK, DCA;s would collapse overnight.

 

 

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Thankyou for replying

 

I ahve nothing on my credit file

 

I have an overdraft with my bank and two credit cards that are up to date, no arrears.

 

I am struggling financially at the moment, but so are millions of others

 

Which CPR should I send/request

 

Thanks

 

Phil

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It's a classic split claim. If you let it run to default judgment then pay it, you can kiss the rest goodbye.

 

Google split claim and Bryan Carter and HFO. You'll find loads on this.

 

The claimant is Luxembourg-based. The other company may be linked, but we're not sure. Normally Bryan Carter handles these through Fredricksons, so this is a new face/new twist.

 

The wording of the PoC is a nasty tactic, and one designed to get you to respond and/or admit the debt. Of course there is no agreement or repayment schedule. It's a dirty trick bordering on something worse... suggest a complaint to the SRA and trading standards would be in order, as well as the OFT.


“The industry is rotten to the core, whether it is in-house recovery and collection, or where agents are used, or where the debt has been sold.” Andrew Mackinley MP, House of Commons, 22 April 2009

 

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Ring the court and find out the exact date by which you need to submitt a defence.

 

Send a CPR 31.14 request to solicitors - letter below

 

This is a link to a thread about split claims - will be back later.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?276741-Some-solicitors-using-Split-Claims-how-does-one-defend

 

CPR Letter.

 

Dear Sir,

 

Re: (Claimant's name) v (Your name) Case No:

CPR 31.14 Request

 

On (date) I received the Claim Form in this case issued by you out of the (Name) county court

 

I confirm having returned my acknowledgement of service to the court in which I indicate my intention to contest all of your claim.

 

 

Please treat this letter as my request made under CPR 31.14 for the disclosure and the production of a verified and legible copy of[each of the following documents

 

1 the agreement. You will appreciate that in an ordinary case and by reason of the provisions of CPR PD 16 para 7.3, where a claim is based upon a written agreement, a copy of the contract or documents constituting the agreement should be attached to or served with the particulars of claim and the original(s) should be available at the hearing. Further, that any general conditions incorporated in the contract should also be attached.

 

2 the default notice

 

Although your claim is for a sum which is not more than £5,000.00 and will in all likelihood be allocated to the small claims track for determination upon my delivering a defence, at this moment in time I have not delivered my defence and the case has not been allocated to a track. In consequence the provisions of CPR 27(2) are of no effect and you should not seek to avoid compliance with your CPR 31 duties by claiming otherwise

 

 

You should ensure compliance with your CPR 31 duties and ensure that the document(s) I have requested are copied to and received by me within 7 days of receiving this letter. Your CPR 31 duties extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for the originals of the documents I have requested, the better for you to be able to verify the document's authenticity and to provide me with a legible copy. Further, where I have requested a copy of a document, the original of which is now in the possession of another person, you will have a right to possession of that document if you have mentioned it in your case. You must take immediate steps to recover and preserve it for the purpose of this case.

 

Where I have mentioned a document and there is in your possession more than one version of that same document owing to a modification, obliteration or other marking or feature, each version will be a separate document and you must provide a copy of each version of it to me. Your obligations extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for any version(s) to include an obligation to recover and preserve such version(s) which are now in the possession of a third party.

 

In accordance with CPR 31.15© I undertake to be responsible for your reasonable copying costs incurred in complying with this CPR 31.14 request.

 

If you require more time in which to comply with this request you must tell me in writing. You must tell me before the time for compliance with this request has expired. In telling me you require more time you must tell me what steps you have taken and propose to take in order to comply with this request and also state a date by when you will comply with this request. In addition your statement must be accompanied with a statement that you agree to an extension of the time for me to file my defence. Your extension of time must be not less than 14 days from the date when you say you will have complied with my request and you must state the new date for filing my defence.

 

If you are unable to comply with this request and believe that you will never be able to comply with this request you must tell me in writing.

 

Please note that if you should fail to comply with this request, fail to request more time or fail to agree to an extension of time for the filing of my defence, I will make an application to the court for an order that the proceedings be struck out or stayed for non-compliance and a summary costs order.

 

I do hope this will not be necessary and look forward to hearing from you.

 

yours faithfully


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I have not entered into an agreement with them regarding instalments. I have not paid anybody any money in over 4 years. So how I can be 5 months in arrears. I have never heard of PHOENIX. This claim also does not identify the original creditor.

 

It's a classic split claim. If you let it run to default judgment then pay it, you can kiss the rest goodbye.

 

OP has stated he doesn't have an agreement or owe money & you seem to acknowledge this**

 

Why, therefore, would he want to let it run to default judgement, DB?? :!: This must be defended completely & absolutely

 

The wording of the PoC is a nasty tactic, and one designed to get you to respond and/or admit the debt. Of course ** there is no agreement or repayment schedule. It's a dirty trick bordering on something worse... suggest a complaint to the SRA and trading standards would be in order, as well as the OFT.

 

Glad to see you've sent AOS Philpatt. In addition to sending the CPR31.14 request above, suggest you also send this to the sols:

 

In the matter of Phoenix Recoveries UK Ltd v Philpatt

 

Claim number xxxx

 

Dear Sirs

 

I am in receipt of a claim issued by your company on xxxx. Please note that my acknowledgement of service was submitted to the court on xxxx with my intention to fully defend this claim.

 

The Particulars of Claim submitted by you to Northampton CC are insufficiently particularised in accordance with the Civil Procedure Rules in that they do not identify the alleged agreement to which the claim pertains. Therefore please serve amended Particulars of Claim and plead your client’s case in an appropriate manner within 7 days, so that I am aware of the case I will have to meet at trial.

 

I request that you attach to the particulars a copy of the agreement upon which the claimant relies. In addition to this I would ask that a copy of any default notice issued and assignment together with proof of service be served with the amended particulars as they are clearly relevant to your clients case.

 

Failure to provide that requested in the time period provided for will result in an application to the court.

 

YS

 

Do not sign any letters (print or use dig. sig to avoid C&P) & send everything Rec Del. You can send the CPR & the above letter in the same envelope.

 

Check with the court 7 days after their receipt of these letter to see if an amended POC has been lodged. If it hasn't & you have also not received a copy agreement (or repsonse), make a Strike Out application immediately & nip this one in the bud. Post back here if you need help with that.


Any knowledge I possess or advice I proffer is based solely on my experiences in the University of Life. Please make your own assessment of legality, risks & costs before taking any action.

 

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Hi FG

 

The OP stated he had not paid anything in 4 years – he didn’t say there was no possible debt. He said there was no mention of the original creditor, and therefore can’t be sure what it’s about, but I get the impression that there may be some things in the past not finalised. I’m sure philpatt can fill us in – is there anything you are aware of that this might possibly relate to? My point was that the PoC is being used as a weapon against the unwary, but the OP has been wise to it; also that, being a split claim, you can tactically turn it on them (as I believe Palomino did successfully).

 

Of course he can defend it – as I would – but if he doesn't want the hassle, he could simply let the judgment go through, pay the small amount and kiss the rest goodbye as a second claim could not be brought. That was my thinking! In the meantime, CPR should uncover who the alleged account was with.

 

The PoC is b*llocks, of course, and given Phoenix’s track record, there is likely to be little paperwork to back this up.

 

It’s interesting that Pinnion has resurfaced. He seems to act for Phoenix’s Tessera compartment (Halifax debts), but in the past has also acted for Rockwell (OC: HSBC).

 

Another big concern is that this type of PoC seems to be cropping up an awful lot suddenly. I think there‘s something behind this new type of ‘arrears’ and non-existent agreement PoC, such as a CSA training course...


“The industry is rotten to the core, whether it is in-house recovery and collection, or where agents are used, or where the debt has been sold.” Andrew Mackinley MP, House of Commons, 22 April 2009

 

If a Cagger helps you, click their star. Better still, make a donation however small, so that CAG can continue to help others.

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Thankyou all for your replies.

 

Coledog:

I rang the court. Defence by 06/10. and I have to send a copy to the court and a copy to the solicitor.

Am sending the CPR request as you provided, with necessary amendments.

 

DonkeyB:

Yes I have had debt problems in the past, and for a while I was paying these off with instalments, nominal sums each month. Some were paid off in full. Others I was harrassed about by debt collectors. They eventually stopped call/writing when they realised I was unable to pay. I was bringing up four children on my own. The debts arose from a business I ran with my then wife, some 10-12 years ago. Some were joint, some individual (CCard).I never received a county court claim for any of them. The only one I can think of is an unsecured business overdraft, but he total amount on the PoC seems ludicrous.

 

Foolishgirl:

Thankyou for your advice. I shall include your letter with the CPR, duly amended of course.

 

When I rang the court, they had a record of the case number, as you'd expect, but she said this is the first time she has seen a record with two names and a completely blank screen. They advised me to call Monday to see if the records had been updated.

 

Thankyou all for your help and support.

 

Will this post stay open so that I can update as the matter progresses ?

Philpatt

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What is involved if I report this to the authorities as suggested.

 

Should I tell the solicitors I am reporting them.

 

Or would that appear to be intimidation and harassment.

 

Philpatt

Edited by Philpatt
mispelling

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Hi Again

 

Just keep posting to the thread when you hear anything or want to ask anything - it will keep open but save a link to it so you can access it easily.

 

The solicitor should get back to you within 7 days. You will need to send a reminder letter if you don't hear anything. Either way you will need to submit a defence by 5th Oct, if nothing is received this will be an 'embarrassed' defence as you do not have enough info to file a proper one. We can help with this.

 

The POC does look very strange, as they seem to be implying that they are claiming for installment arrears and will claim for further arrears if these are not paid in future. Normally these claims say that there will be 'an outstanding balance accruing interest etc etc'

 

Complaints about this would be in order but personally I would wait until you can get some more information and see what the solicitor comes back with particularly with regard to this elusive 'agreement'. Possibly more ammunition.


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When I rang the court, they had a record of the case number, as you'd expect, but she said this is the first time she has seen a record with two names and a completely blank screen.

 

This is the 2nd time this week I have heard of problems with online records at MCOL due to what appears to be at first glance duplicate claims. Maybe it's a glitch in Northampton's system?

 

Will this post stay open so that I can update as the matter progresses ?

 

Your thread will stay open as long as you wish it to.

 

What is involved if I report this to the authorities as suggested.

 

Should I tell the solicitors I am reporting them.

 

As yet, there is nothing to report. You can't report them for only issuing a claim for part of the balance of the account - what they issue for is their business/loss. The problem comes about when/if they choose to issue a separate claim for the remainder once they have obtained their money/CCJ on this one. That's when you should start flinging the reports around. At the moment it's just your speculation, not fact.


Any knowledge I possess or advice I proffer is based solely on my experiences in the University of Life. Please make your own assessment of legality, risks & costs before taking any action.

 

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Can you confirm this has been issued out Southend County Court.. or has it been issued from the Northampton Bulk Mailing Centre. It is important that we know from which court.

 

If it has been issued out of a local court then at the very least the Particulars of Claim should be more complete. It might just be worth phoning Southend to see if they have any more detail.

 

Is Southend your local court ?

 

This tactic is used by Bryan Carter quite a lot..

 

Have you at any time received the following

 

A default notice issued under s87(1)

A final or formal demand for the outstanding balance

A Letter before Action

A termination notice

If it isnt the original creditor who is making the claim.. have you received a notice of assignment.

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Can you confirm this has been issued out Southend county courtlink3.gif.. or has it been issued from the Northampton Bulk Mailing Centre.

 

Oh well spotted CB - didn't notice that & I was assuming it was Northants.

 

If it has been issued out of a local court then at the very least the Particulars of Claim should be more complete. It might just be worth phoning Southend to see if they have any more detail.

 

If it was Southend, not only is the POC dismal, but a copy of the agreement should have been attached to the claim - CPR PD 16 (7.3)

Where a claim is based upon a written agreement:

(1) a copy of the contract or documents constituting the agreement should be attached to or served with the particulars of claim and the original(s) should be available at the hearing, and

 

(2) any general conditions of sale incorporated in the contract should also be attached (but where the contract is or the documents constituting the agreement are bulky this practice direction is complied with by attaching or serving only the relevant parts of the contract or documents).

 

 

Can you let us know the court Philpatt asap as the letter to the sols in Post #6 above may need amending to reflect this.


Any knowledge I possess or advice I proffer is based solely on my experiences in the University of Life. Please make your own assessment of legality, risks & costs before taking any action.

 

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Hi foolishgirl, coledog, dx100uk and CitizenB any anybody else viewing.

 

Thanks for your help. This is the latest news on my case.

 

I had not received any reply from the solicitors following my request for more detailed particulars.

 

I then telephoned the Southend County Court, today, and they informed me that the case had been "discontinued"

 

Should I still send a defence. What happens now ?

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Sounds promising but I do not know the legal definition of 'discontinued' - may try and re-submit it ??? I'm a bit a of a legal numpty.


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If they have discontinued, you should have been informed by them. This is an abuse of process, but unfortunately as you had not submitted a defence, you’ll be unlikely to be able to claim costs. Effectively, you have won. Call the court and ask for written confirmation of this, and tell them the numpty solicitor has failed to inform you.

 

And you’re anything but a numpty, coledog!


“The industry is rotten to the core, whether it is in-house recovery and collection, or where agents are used, or where the debt has been sold.” Andrew Mackinley MP, House of Commons, 22 April 2009

 

If a Cagger helps you, click their star. Better still, make a donation however small, so that CAG can continue to help others.

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Thankyou for replying so quickly

 

I believe I still have until Friday the 8th to submit a defence.

 

Philpatt

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Interesting idea... ! Not sure it will wash!

 

But then, as you have received no notification of a discontinuance, you would be well advised to enter an embarrassed defence. Then cheekily go for wasted costs? Hmmm...


“The industry is rotten to the core, whether it is in-house recovery and collection, or where agents are used, or where the debt has been sold.” Andrew Mackinley MP, House of Commons, 22 April 2009

 

If a Cagger helps you, click their star. Better still, make a donation however small, so that CAG can continue to help others.

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Is there a template on this site for the embarrassed defence.

 

Philpatt

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Telephone the Court and ask for confirmation in writing that the proceedings have been discontinued.

 

The claimant has obviously withdrew his false claim.

 

Kind Regards

 

The Mould

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Would you perhaps advise sending a defence and include the request for confirmation in writing.

 

Or just a written request for the discontinuance.

 

When I spoke to the court this morning they had no record of my AoS, they are currently 9 days behind entering information on the system. I did send it registererd post, so I know it arrived.

 

I'm just reluctant to leave telephone messages.

 

Can you suggest an embarrassed defence letter template

 

Philpatt

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Very simple embarrassed claim as there is basically nothing in the POC to defend!

Defence

(Full name and address)

1. £££££££ of £££££££££ am the defendant in this action and make the following statement as my defence to the claim made by XXXXXX

2. Except where otherwise mentioned in this defence, I neither admit nor deny any allegation made in the claimants Particulars of Claim and put the claimant to strict proof thereof.

3. The claimants particulars of claim are vague and fail to disclose any cause of action, they appear to be an abuse of the process in that they fail to deal with the basic rules of pleading in accordance with the CPR

4. No documents supporting the claims in the particulars have been offered and despite a request to the claimant for further information via CPR 31.14 dated xx/xx/xxxx sent by recorded delivery none has been forthcoming and as a result the defendent cannot plead in defence to the claim

5. Without clarification of the claimants claim, the defendant is extremely disadvantaged and the claimants claim appears without merit, the defendant respectfully asks the court to be allowed to submit a fully particularised defence should the claimant provide copies of the original documents they will rely upon.

6. Further to the above, the defendant is unable to plead effectively or at all. The defendant is embarrassed.

 

Statement of Truth

I believe the above statement to be true and factual

Signed

 

Dated


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I think that you still need to phone the court and ask for confirmation of discontinuation in writing but still put in the defence as it covers you for costs.


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I then telephoned the Southend county court today, and they informed me that the case had been "discontinued"

 

Excellent news Philpatt.

 

I agree with coledog - get that defence in on time unless you get confirmation from the court that it has been discontinued. It's not your fault the court can't keep on top of its mail & as DB says, it might give you a chance to go for costs.

 

Whatever happens, you need to report Phoenix to OFT for this blatent abuse of process/fishing expedition.


Any knowledge I possess or advice I proffer is based solely on my experiences in the University of Life. Please make your own assessment of legality, risks & costs before taking any action.

 

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