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Man dies over £35 bottle of perfume


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Please remember this trial is not concluded

 

Iraq War veteran begged for mercy as security guard 'choked him to death over a stolen £35 bottle of perfume'

 

Aaron Bishop, 23, a former Welsh Guardsman, turned blue and pleaded 'please help me' as he was choked by Sam Bawden, 25, according to witnesses.

 

Full Story:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1313952/Shoplifter-begged-mercy-guard-choked-death-35-perfume.html

 

22 September 2010

www.dailymail.co.uk

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To give this thread some balance, this story is about a shoplifter who my have contributed to the death of a supermarket worker. It might be your wife or mother next!

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-10633485

 

Unfortunately it looks like the thieving shoplifter is going to get away with it.

 

Hammy

(If anyone wants to edit this at least be man enough to own up to it and notify me)

Edited by Hammy1962

44 years at the pointy end of the motor trade. :eek:

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-10633485

 

Unfortunately it looks like he's going to get away with it.

 

Hammy

 

That link points to a completely different story :???:

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Sidewinder, my original post had some text above the link pointing out, for balance, that a shoplifter had contributed to the death of a supermarket worker. Without this text i would agree that it doesn't make much sense, in fact it reads as though i agree with the original poster, which i most certainly do not.

 

Whoever edited the first part of my post didn't have the courtesy of telling me.

 

Hammy

44 years at the pointy end of the motor trade. :eek:

GARUDALINUX.ORG

Garuda Linux comes with a variety of desktop environments like KDE, GNOME, Cinnamon, XFCE, LXQt-kwin, Wayfire, Qtile, i3wm and Sway to choose from.

 

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To give this thread some balance, this story is about a shoplifter who my have contributed to the death of a supermarket worker. It might be your wife or mother next!

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-10633485

 

But in that case, there doesn't seem to be any suggestion he used force or violence. If it cannot be proved his actions caused the death then it is right for him to be acquited of manslaughter.

Post by me are intended as a discussion of the issues involved, as these are of general interest to me and others on the forum. Although it is hoped such discussion will be of use to readers, before exposing yourself to risk of loss you should not rely on any principles discussed without confirming the situation with a qualified person.

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Hi Hammy

 

There were good reasons for deleting your posts, both stories are shocking, your comments trivialise the nature of the events, plus you wanted to keep score, 1:1.

As you can see others have found the stories quite shocking.

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But in that case, there doesn't seem to be any suggestion he used force or violence. If it cannot be proved his actions caused the death then it is right for him to be acquited of manslaughter.

 

This is just one of numerous articles about the sad death of this supermarket worker, other articles suggest the shoplifter forcefully pushed the lady out of the way.

 

The origional post was clearly a dig at the security person, so hated on these threads, nothing at all to do with the section title RLP. As I have pointed out before, a family member works at a supermarket, not as security I should add. They witness almost daily the verbal abuse and sometimes physical violence alleged shoplifters throw at security guards who are, in the main, just trying to earn a decent living.

 

Just as you are shocked at the sad death of this shoplifter, just spare a thought for the family of this other lady. The shoplifter set out that day to maybe steal something, perfume, the lady at Morrison's set out to fill a few shelves.......................................

 

Hammy :-D

44 years at the pointy end of the motor trade. :eek:

GARUDALINUX.ORG

Garuda Linux comes with a variety of desktop environments like KDE, GNOME, Cinnamon, XFCE, LXQt-kwin, Wayfire, Qtile, i3wm and Sway to choose from.

 

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I also agree, two sad cases but the choke hold makes a great difference and apart from the fact they are both supermarket.store cases and a person died, I cant see the point of defending the male security guard or the need to defend on this thread, is it some sort of security guard big up fed up of hearing how peed off people are with some of them acting like little hittlers whilst not even uderstanding the basics of the law ?

 

If so, TOUGH, if the odd few want to act like police officers then join the force, or is it they would fail the basics?

 

Security guards do not have police powers, if they insist on trying to use powers they dont have, its assault or possible as above results in death.

 

xx

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This is just one of numerous articles about the sad death of this supermarket worker, other articles suggest the shoplifter forcefully pushed the lady out of the way.

 

The origional post was clearly a dig at the security person, so hated on these threads, nothing at all to do with the section title RLP. As I have pointed out before, a family member works at a supermarket, not as security I should add. They witness almost daily the verbal abuse and sometimes physical violence alleged shoplifters throw at security guards who are, in the main, just trying to earn a decent living.

 

Just as you are shocked at the sad death of this shoplifter, just spare a thought for the family of this other lady. The shoplifter set out that day to maybe steal something, perfume, the lady at Morrison's set out to fill a few shelves.......................................

 

Hammy :-D

 

so Hammy the 'alleged' theft of a £35 bottle of perfume justifies the death of a man. Incidentally this has everything to to do with civil recovery as you will learn in due course

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  • 2 weeks later...

Dear All,

 

Both very sad tales.

 

I was discussing something similar with a friend a few months back which you might find interesting. I told him that I had once been caught shoplifting and how I felt it was quite traumatic waiting to hear from RLP, and he relayed a story along these lines to me.

 

He was shopping at a Tesco's in the Midlands area a couple of years ago and decided to steal some goods for whatever reason. Anyway he was caught exiting the store and asked to go back inside, at which point he decided to try and leg it. He managed about 10 yards before he was 'floored' by an employee and cracked his head on the floor. He said at least two Tescos employees essentially sat on him right in the middle of the store and he started having what he thinks was a panic attack/asthma attack and could not breath. He remembers them saying 'he's putting it on', but at the same time he heard someoen else saying get him an ambulance he's going purple. He was then carried by his arms and legs right through the middle of the store to what I would assume was the managers/security office. On the way he beleives he passed out as he has a few gaps he can't remember.

 

Flash forward and he recovers in the security room, is charged by the police. During this he nearly passes out again and the police officers are quite worried about him and even take him outside for fresh air, but he didn't think to question any of what had happened.

 

The funny thing is that the store seemingly never took it any further - he was never 'banned' and he never received anything from RLP. Makes you think the store might have looked at the CCTV footage and thought ooops.... ?

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Dear All,

 

Both very sad tales.

 

I was discussing something similar with a friend a few months back which you might find interesting. I told him that I had once been caught shoplifting and how I felt it was quite traumatic waiting to hear from RLP, and he relayed a story along these lines to me.

 

He was shopping at a Tesco's in the Midlands area a couple of years ago and decided to steal some goods for whatever reason. Anyway he was caught exiting the store and asked to go back inside, at which point he decided to try and leg it. He managed about 10 yards before he was 'floored' by an employee and cracked his head on the floor. He said at least two Tescos employees essentially sat on him right in the middle of the store and he started having what he thinks was a panic attack/asthma attack and could not breath. He remembers them saying 'he's putting it on', but at the same time he heard someoen else saying get him an ambulance he's going purple. He was then carried by his arms and legs right through the middle of the store to what I would assume was the managers/security office. On the way he beleives he passed out as he has a few gaps he can't remember.

 

Flash forward and he recovers in the security room, is charged by the police. During this he nearly passes out again and the police officers are quite worried about him and even take him outside for fresh air, but he didn't think to question any of what had happened.

 

The funny thing is that the store seemingly never took it any further - he was never 'banned' and he never received anything from RLP. Makes you think the store might have looked at the CCTV footage and thought ooops.... ?

 

 

Would your friend be willing to make a sworn statement as to the events you describe?

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I also agree, two sad cases but the choke hold makes a great difference and apart from the fact they are both supermarket.store cases and a person died, I cant see the point of defending the male security guard or the need to defend on this thread, is it some sort of security guard big up fed up of hearing how peed off people are with some of them acting like little hittlers whilst not even uderstanding the basics of the law ?

 

I find it an odd argument with regards security guards not understanding the basics of the law vs shoplifters...

 

I have to agree with Hammy on a lot of this - clearly, the story highlighted at the top of this post is ludicrous.

 

However, if a person makes a concious decision to shoplift, AND crucially then makes a concious decision to attempt to escape being apprehended, then surely they must know a potential consequence of this decision is injury.

 

As stated - the story above is clearly OTT, and the security guard should very much be prosecuted for manslaughter. But trying to get people to side with shoplifters over security guards? It just doesnt wash with me.

7 years in retail customer service

 

Expertise in letting and rental law for 6 years

 

By trade - I'm an IT engineer working in the housing sector.

 

Please note that any posts made by myself are for information only and should not and must not be taken as correct or factual. If in doubt, consult with a solicitor or other person of equal legal standing.

 

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Who's siding with shoplifters? Nobody is suggesting that the guy should have got away with shoplifting but he didn't deserve to be killed for it. We stopped that as a punishment for petty theft a long time ago and even then we required a trial (of sorts) first. I'm not against security guards. I am against certain types of individual who are attracted to roles which they believe will legitimise totally unacceptable behaviour.

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Well, the post I quoted for one.

7 years in retail customer service

 

Expertise in letting and rental law for 6 years

 

By trade - I'm an IT engineer working in the housing sector.

 

Please note that any posts made by myself are for information only and should not and must not be taken as correct or factual. If in doubt, consult with a solicitor or other person of equal legal standing.

 

Please click the star if I have helped!!

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The difficulty with this case is that what we 'know' is only what the media chooses to tell us.

 

A 'choke hold' of sorts used to be authorised as suitable for restraining people (many years ago). Following various deaths and injuries, restraint techniques have been scrutinised from time to time, and revisions made to what are somtimes called 'Home Office' approved techniques. Ufortunately, during 'moments of stress', people, including security guards, will forget current training, and end up doing something trained, or learned, years previously.

 

My sympathies go to all involved in this awful story.

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  • 4 weeks later...

"I work in a large retail store, a National chain. I see shoplifters every day, I also work with a lot of different security guards.

 

Some of the shoplifters are the old school types, the "its a fair cop Guv" types who when challenged will just drop the stolen stuff and walk away, I've even had some apologise and put stuff back on display for me. However some of the shoplifters I have come across have been vile and the **** of the earth - threatening violence and even carrying out the threats. I have seen some things that would make you shudder.

 

Some security guards are very good, know the area they work in and will try to be effective by having a realtionship with the known shoplifters and make them aware they know who they are. They when called upon use their powers (which they do have, the power of any persons arrest), and they use them well. However some of the security guards I come across take the whole thing too personally, they misuse what powers they have and treat everyone as a suspect, and if called upon to use thier powers often go further than they are allowed in the knowledge that the burden of proof for abuse lies with the shoplifter (it is unheard of in my experience to hear fellow store staff say to police etc that a guard when too far, "I didnt see it" or "the shoplifter left him no choice he was resisting and violent").

 

So looking at this from my experience I can understand to some extent those who say it wouldnt have happened if he wasnt there to steal, however any death, whatever the circumstances is wrong. When a security guard and company use their powers well, they prevent loss to the company, and prices rising for the consumer. Shoplifting is not a victimless crime, just ask my collegues who lost their jobs recently due in part to loses from theft. When security is badly managed they they prose a very real threat to themselves, inocent bystanders and the offender as well. Security is something we have to live with I'm afraid - but it should be carried out to a much more consistant standard.

Edited by SirHumpy
opps
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