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Morning

I'm trying to help a friend who is being chased by CRS.

He took out a gym membership via snapdd.co.uk (see attached)

Unfortunately he has spoken to CRS a few times in the past to set up a plan to pay them, which he did not fulfil for various reasons.

Whilst being incorrect for taking out a gym membership that he never used & could not afford they are demanding a very high amount & have visited his home.

Is there a legal way out of this contract? or should he ignore the threats? or should he make a payment plan?

Just need some advice to point him in the right direction.

Thanx Hector

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Hi Hector,

 

If you read other threads here, you'll find many examples of gyms and their DCA's pursuing "debts" to which they have no right in law.

 

It may help if you post up the agreement that YF signed or agreed to online. Hide any pesonal data first.

 

What gym was involved.

 

I see CRS refer to a debt of £918 whereas the 36 months m/ship can only be £720 maximum. I assume, therefore, that CRS, SnapDD or the gym have added on some form of late payment charges. These are unlawful and cannot be enforced.

 

Often, the best advice is to either ignore any demands or to challenge the rights of the DCA to pusue the alleged debt.

 

Post up the agreement and we may be able to advise further.

 

8-)

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morning Slick

Terms & conditions attached (Gym was a small private operation - 2 sites, not a large chain - not sure if it still exists in the original owership/name - will find out if it is important). My friend does not have a copy of the full agreement ( I know, should have printed one off online, but then should never have started this process in the first place.)

I assume I can ask for one from CRS but how do you know the copy one you receive at a later date is the same as the one shown online at the time & the one the electronic signature applies to.

All advice greatly appreciated.

thanx Hector

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Hi Hector,

 

Can you post the T&C's in a different manner as that pic is way too small to read. http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/welcome-consumer-forums/107001-how-do-i-dummies.html

 

Thanks

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Hi Hector,

 

Was the original online agreement with snappdd ?

 

Was nothing signed at the gym itself.

 

On what date was the agreement started.

 

What was the initial m/ship period. It is referred to in s.6 of the T&C's but is not specified, "..... obligated to make the Minimum Number of Direct Debit Payments stated........."

 

The letter from CRS refers to 36 months but I can't see this in the contract. Is there any other document which forms part of the agreement.

 

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Hi Slick

as I am doing this for a friend so all the info is second hand - I will get the info you have asked for - below is what I know at the minute but will confirm details.

thanx - Hector

Was the original online agreement with snappdd ? YES

 

Was nothing signed at the gym itself.NO

 

On what date was the agreement started.WILL CHECK

 

What was the initial m/ship period. It is referred to in s.6 of the T&C's but is not specified, "..... obligated to make the Minimum Number of Direct Debit Payments stated........."

 

The letter from CRS refers to 36 months but I can't see this in the contract. Is there any other document which forms part of the agreement. WILL CHECK BUT THIS INFO CAME FROM CRS

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Come back with the further info.

 

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Morning Slick

I have not been able to get any further info from my friend - the application was online throught the gym website but the agreement confirmation was through snapdd.co.uk (they use this company to process the secure info) - the gym was not visited for the application purpose - so the following answers are

Was the original online agreement with snappdd ? YES but through the gym website

 

Was nothing signed at the gym itself.NO - nothing to do with the application was done face to face with a gym employee.

 

On what date was the agreement started. cannot get an exact answer on this but possibly around the time stated on the CRS paperwork.

 

What was the initial m/ship period. It is referred to in s.6 of the T&C's but is not specified, "..... obligated to make the Minimum Number of direct debitlink3.gif Payments stated........."

 

The letter from CRS refers to 36 months but I can't see this in the contract. Is there any other document which forms part of the agreement. nothing came from the gym regarding the membership - so we have no further info regarding the membership - only the papers from CRS which could have come from anywhere by the look of it.

 

I realise a lot of this info is hazy, the friend involved is young & did not keep proper records of the transaction but I do feel this is part ot fhe problem & why people are chased for unreasonable amounts by aggresive companies threatening future problems.

Any advice is gratefully received

thanx

Hector

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Hi Hector,

 

I'd write to CRS and copy to Snappdd saying that the 2 doc'ts provided so far by CRS do not show any evidence of a contract or agreement between anyone.

 

Tell them they must provide a copy of the contract or agreement to which YF agreed, along with evidence that he agreed to it.

 

Tell them, if they fail to provide this, they must not pursue the alleged debt. If they do, they will be reported to Trading Standards without further warning.

 

The "contract" shows nothing about the parties involved in the agreement, dates, amounts, initial contract term, etc. It would therefore be unenforceable in any court.

 

8-)

Edited by slick132
typo

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It would really help if you can get the date that he joined.

Also, have any payments been made and if so how many ?

How long after joining did he cancel the DD ?

Has there been other letters that he has received ?

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Cheers Hector.

 

Not that I can think of at present, but want to know about the other correspondence he has received as the CRS letter doesn't look like a first contact letter.

 

I could do with knowing the address of CRS, you can pm that to me if you want.

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Hi Herctor,

 

Whilst I understand you may have some reservations about posting info on the thread here, we need to see the T&C's and other stuff so other users can learn from this case.

 

There are so many of these gyms and their agents making up the rules as they go along and they need to be tackled.

 

Share the info and help everyone get even with these gyms.

 

Many thanks 8-)

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TERMS & CONDITIONS

PRINCIPLE TERMS

1. This agreement commences either:

If you are on the club’s premises, once you have indicated your acceptance in the Declaration section of

this web sign up process.

OR

If you are not on the club’s premises, once you have indicated your acceptance in the Declaration section of

this web sign up process and then either entered the clubs premises or after a period of 7 days has

elapsed, whichever is earlier.

2. Your membership starts immediately.

3. You will be entitled to all the rights and privileges exercisable for the Type of Membership chosen.

4. You cannot transfer this agreement to anyone else.

FEES AND CHARGES

5. The Total first payment amount is due from you to us, is due immediately and is payable on the 1st Direct

Debit Payment Date. This amount is not refundable in any circumstances.

6. The Direct Debit Payment Amount is due from you to us. You are obligated to make the Minimum Number st

of Direct Debit Payments stated with the first one being paid on the 1st Direct Debit Payment Date, the

second on the Second DD payment date and then every month thereafter. For the avoidance of doubt, you

are obligated to make every Direct Debit Payment regardless of non attendance, whatever the reason for

non attendance may be.

7. If you fail to pay any monies due under this agreement or if any Direct Debit is returned unpaid or any

cheque is returned unpaid or if any other form of payment is not honoured for whatever reason, you shall

pay us on demand an administration fee of £25.

8. You agree to advise us immediately of any change to the Members Details provided.

9. If you fail to pay any amount due under this agreement for a period of more than thirty days, then we may

pass the debt to a third party company for collection. The reasonable costs incurred in employing the third

party company will be borne by you including costs in tracing you should you have changed your address

without telling us.

RENEWAL

10. In order to extend your membership after completing the minimum number of Direct Debit payments, we will

automatically continue collecting the Direct Debit Payment Amount every month. Your membership will be

extended by one month each payment. Each payment made is not refundable under any circumstances.

This Renewal Direct Debit Payment Amount may only be amended if we advise you in writing giving 30

days notice.

Please note – If your membership included the benefit of a Free Period then we will stop making collections

during that Free Period and recommence making collections when this free period has finished.

11. During this Renewal Period the only way to cancel your membership is by cancelling your Direct Debit

Mandate directly with your Bank.

GENERAL TERMS

12. You agree to comply with the Rules of Membership which are displayed prominently in the Club and relate

to opening hours, use of facilities and your conduct. We may make reasonable changes to these Rules at

any time provided we give you advance notice of the change.

13. If we take no action or let you off any breach of this agreement or give you extra time to pay or comply, it

will not stop us enforcing the terms of this agreement strictly at a future date.

14. We may assign the benefit of this agreement and our rights thereunder to a third party on notice to you.

Your rights under this agreement will not be prejudiced.

15. This agreement is governed by English Law.

16. We may terminate this agreement with immediate effect on notice to you if you are in breach of the Clubs

Rules. In this event you will not be liable to pay any further Direct Debit Payments, provided such breach is

not deemed by us to have occurred primarily in order to qualify you for a refund.

 

The above does not contain the 'Club Rules of Membership' which are 'not' accessable from the club website but are pinned by the entrance to the club when you enter. That's not good enough to make a judgement as to the suitablity of the club before signing.

Edited by Conniff
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The above does not contain the 'Club Rules of Membership' which are 'not' accessable from the club website but are pinned by the entrance to the club when you enter. That's not good enough to make a judgement as to the suitablity of the club before signing.

 

Hi Conniff - seeing my friend tomorrow for some confirmations of info - does the above stand up if it came to court ?

thanx - Hector

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Hi Slick - sorry - just getting paranoid as I hate these companies with avengence - half the time gyms seem only to exist as ways to get money out of people. As for the DLC's they are complete b******s - sorry but have have a torrid time for the past 3>4 years & only just coming out of it - am very bitter towards a number of financial institutions. However, I digress, I want to help my friend if I can, so thanx to all for their assistance

Thanx to Conniff for the clear T&C's for the gym inquestion - Hector

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I found some further information this weekend regarding this account - whilst there was no earlier letters from either the gym or CRS there was contact by phone from the gym where my friend tried to set up a payment schedule (he should have known better, I know but has youth & inexperience as an excuse) which was never paid. This was on about 3 occasions (which CRS have the dates of & my friend agrees are probably correct)

New further developement - my friend has just received a letter with a court claim form - as soon as I receive the scanned copies I will post up to see if it is anything to be concerned about. A letter sent to them as suggested requesting all terms & conditions has probably crossed in the post.

thanx

Hector

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Post up what YF has rec'd asap.

 

I'd be surprised if any court proceedings have actually been started.

 

8-)

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  • 2 weeks later...

sorry for long delay in updating this - only received the info this weekend - any advice greatly appreciated - thanx - Hector

Please go to the hector-a-go-go photostream @ www.flickr.com for the updated crs info & claim form

www.flickr.com/photos/38343528@N03/5092378265 & www.flickr.com/photos/38343528@N03/5092975190

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Hi Hector,

 

I see the letter from CRS encloses a copy of the court claim their legal department has prepared. Even though they say "..... this has currently not been sent to the court." , I think this is a clear breach of the OFT Debt Collection Guidelines, Section 2.2(a).

 

I'd send copies of these doc'ts to your local Trading Standards saying they breach the OFT's DCG's, by enclosing a copy of a court claim that has not been filed at court. The letter is both threatening and intimidatory.

 

I've seen nothing yet that resembles an enforceable agreement or contract.

 

I'd like to see what Conniff says first but my inclination is to write to CRS saying there is no binding contract or agreement and, as a result:-

 

1. CRS have been reported to Trading Standards for breach of the OFT Debt Coll'n Guidelines, s. 2.2(a).

 

2. No further monies will be paid, nor correspondence entered into.

 

3. Any further contact or demands will be reported to Trading Standards and/or the OFT for investigation.

 

4. Any court action will be robustly defended due to the lack of any enforceable contract.

 

See if Conniff has some input.

 

:-)

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