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bombhead

Work Colleagues telling lies leads to my suspension and possible disciplinary

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Hi. Two work colleagues (one of which I fell out with at work a few weeks ago) have made statements to the effect that I have hit an elderly resident with demenia in a care home. This is untrue, but I have been suspended while the investigation takes place. How do I defend myself against this? The person with dementia cannot be asked due to the nature of their condition. There is one other colleague who was working with me. She hasnt been asked for a statement as yet, but she didnt see anything untoward.

One of the lying colleagues has since tried to retract her statement from the care home manager, but she has told her it is too late as a third party is investigating it. The two lying colleagues are very close socially.

It seems it's their word against mine? What is the best approach to defend myself against this?

I have never hit anyone in the years I have worked there and never would. I'm just so worried about this as it could stop me working in the care industry (which is quite right if I were guilty, but as I'm not, seems so unfair for what appears to be a callous action).

Thanks for any advice in advance.

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Hello and welcome to CAG. This sounds a tough situation for you, my sympathies.

 

I don't have any thoughts for you at the moment, apart from having a word with the ACAS helpline [number on their website]. I'm sure other caggers will be along later.

 

My best, HB


Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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Thanks for your reply. It's a horrible time not knowing. I have yet to be contacted by the investigation team, but I'll let you know how it proceeds in case it's of help to anyone in the future.

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Hello again. If someone does hit a patient, would you expect there to be anything visible on the poor patient? I hope others will comment, including our pet policeman, but I just wonder how the investigation plan to prove it one way or the other.

 

My best, HB


Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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Hi bombhead..... from what you say you have done everything you can at present. Denied the allegation. I should just wait and see how it plays out. It must go in your favour that the independent witness didn't see anything. How do you know she says this? and of course the alleger has tried to withdraw the allegation.

 

In my experience liars never prosper in the end because their story always falls apart.

 

How long have you been working in this job? Are you in a union or have independent Legal Protection Insurance (try looking in your home contents policy.) ? You may need it if worse comes to worse.

 

So just sit tight and keep us posted, the boot is on the employer's foot at present.

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Speak of angels, hear their wings :). Hello Constable Smurf.

 

HB


Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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Hello again. If someone does hit a patient, would you expect there to be anything visible on the poor patient? I hope others will comment, including our pet policeman, but I just wonder how the investigation plan to prove it one way or the other.

 

My best, HB

 

Good point on HB on the marks on the patient. This is one thing that you could explore on the allegers (Divide their stories too for inconsistencies) ie where on the body you are supposed to have hit the patient, how hard, how often, in what manner etc. You could also insist that the patient should be examined by a doctor and any injuries or lack of injuries noted. This might be important because the patient may very have a propensity for bruising, if none are there then that is good for you. If the patient has bruising and is prone to bruising from a medical condition then that goes for you too. They have to prove where and how any injury was caused.

 

If nursing is concerned surely there must be 2 people to deal, do you work in pairs normally?

 

What was the falling out over?

 

Sit tight and trust in the truth coming out.

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Speak of angels, hear their wings :). Hello Constable Smurf.

 

HB

 

The buzzing of the honeybee..... how sweet a sound !!!!!!!!!

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Thanks for your replies. No physical checks have been made that I'm aware of. Not sure what the next step in the investigation is. The original fall out involved me reporting one of the liars to the manager for poor standard of care (more of an informal word as opposed to a report though). Will let you know how things progress.

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I've dealt with a few of these, If you have 2 against 1 your start is seriously not good. A panel will usually side with the majority unless you can prove another motive driving the ones lodging the complaint. At face value to an independent panel you have been reported to have assaulted a vulnerable adult, a good panel will know there are two sides to every story and look to make a balanced decision. You should also get your head around the fact that your management or more senior management will probably have had plenty of opportunity to influence this panel. Their main aim is to protect the interests of their employers duty of care.

 

In my experience you will be required to prove your innocence before your guilt is proven and the only way i see to do this is to find such clear discrepancies in the 2 individuals statements that it is clear there is more than meets the eye.

 

If the statements are close between the pair then you'll be left with discrediting them in the hearing (make sure they have been called as witnesses) which sounds easy on paper but isn't if you know what your doing in this environment. I wouldn't for all the tea in china do your job as i know how hard your job is through representing people doing the same job. What;s easy to you is impossible for me and visa versa.

 

As nobody here has the slightest idea of if you have done this or not and this forum does not judge i'd also say the same to you as I have to those i've supported in similar circumstances. If you have lost it for a moment (I understand why) you also need to consider resigning, this is something i'd never tell anyone to do but only you know the actual circumstances.

 

I've pleaded mitigating circumstances on many an occasion but if you are found to have committed the act (maybe even on the balance of probabilities) i'd be surprised if you were not dismissed.

 

If they mention pova (protection of vunerable adults list) don't panic too much, I've found their hearings to be much fairer and it's often a "let her resign" tactic with little done afterwards.

 

 

 

 

If your innocent fight them all the way but it's not going to be easy for you ;)

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Well I have had my statement taken by the police working in conjunction with adult protection, and he said after twenty minutes or so that he will not be pursuing the matter. I'm so SO relieved. Maybe there were too many discrepancy's in the two statements made against me? I dont know.

I hope they pursue real matters a bit more rigrously than this!

What is your advice for my next step. Do you think it's reasonable for me to ask my employer not to roster me with these two again, in case it happens in the future?

Is there any legal route I can take to make sure they dont do it again to me?

Many thanks for your thoughts previously. It helped a lot just to write and get things off my chest.

I feel so wonderful!

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So let's be clear here, there was an allegation of assault that was investigated by the police who informed you that there would be no criminal charges, correct? What has happened as far as internal investigation and procedure is concerned?

 

I think you need to ensure that there is no discipline action being taken against you and to get this in writing. Has your employer clarified what is happening?

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Whilst I am extremely happy for you that this isn't being pursued by the police, you simply have to get a full written retraction of all allegations against you from the employer in the event that they also take no further action.

 

Not being pursued by the police is somewhat different from being able to state that the incident never occurred. I really don't want to pour cold water on your current elation, but the mere fact that this has been even investigated by the police may well have consequences in the future. Any enhanced CRB will almost inevitably be returned with this as a question mark over your character. Any police disclosure will be duty bound to report that there was an allegation of assault against a vulnerable person but that there was insufficient evidence to proceed with a case.

 

For that reason, it is essential that you are completely exonerated and have something in writing should there be a future need to demonstrate this.


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Whilst I am extremely happy for you that this isn't being pursued by the police, you simply have to get a full written retraction of all allegations against you from the employer in the event that they also take no further action.

 

Not being pursued by the police is somewhat different from being able to state that the incident never occurred. I really don't want to pour cold water on your current elation, but the mere fact that this has been even investigated by the police may well have consequences in the future. Any enhanced CRB will almost inevitably be returned with this as a question mark over your character. Any police disclosure will be duty bound to report that there was an allegation of assault against a vulnerable person but that there was insufficient evidence to proceed with a case.

 

For that reason, it is essential that you are completely exonerated and have something in writing should there be a future need to demonstrate this.

 

Bombhead, Im going through a similar scenario at the moment, I can really sympathise with how you are feeling,

The policeman would have looked for significant indicators such as times, dates, who,what and where. If he feels that the information is too sparse to be relied upon he will not persue it because there is no definate evidence on which to proceed. Your employer must also take the same route, although they do not have to be as specific and may make a judgement on the balance of probabilities it is good news and a bonus in your defence. The next step is now up to your employers. Good Luck.

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Well, my employer has dismissed me for gross misconduct after 10 days investigation. It appears they only relied on the written statements of the two liars, and it was only at my disciplinary meeting and at my request that they took a statement from the other carer on shift. She didnt see anything untoward although she recalled the events within the two liars statements.

The owner offered to accept my resignation (backdated 3 weeks so she woulnt need to pay me!) for her let me leave with a clean record, but I just felt that was a cop out for me as I didnt do anything.

I have drafted a letter of appeal but this is to be heard by the owners husband so I dont hold out much hope.

Can anyone give me some advice on my options? Am I able to take my complaint to a tribunal for inadequate investigation? Am I able to take the two liars to court for libel? What do you think my best options would be and chances?

Thanks for any help. I was so elated after the police didnt proceed but now left feeling so angry. Apparantly one of the liars has told the manager 'if she (me) comes back to work then Im leaving'. I cannot believe anyone could be so vindictive in the workplace.

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