Urgent Help Need Please Re EGG Claim!!

[magirose]

Urgent Help Needed Please Re Egg Claim!!

 

I received a claims form dated 25th August from Aplins Acting for Egg Banking PLC on 3rd September.

I filed an AOS on the 6th of Sept stating I was going to defend the claim.

I sent off two CPR 31.14 Request letters dated 10th September to Aplins and Egg.

I have received nothing back from both of them, not even an acknowledgment.

 

Brief Background

 

This credit card account was taken out in 2005 online so I never signed an agreement (although there was a page after the application that stated that ticking the box will be construed as signing the agreement (not exact words) but they never sent me any paper agreement to sign or Ts & Cs!!

In 2008, I passed this account to Cartel Client Review and they stated it was unenforceable and they passed this on to CCLS who instigated a dispute on my behalf. As far as I can remember, they did a SAR. Things didn’t move fast enough for me as CCLS were closed down in March this year and Cartel! I have been in contact with Gordon’s Solicitors (who were appointed as administrators for CCLS) and they are unable to find my file and documents! So I have absolutely no access to whatever information CCLS got from Egg! I am now starting from scratch especially since I received this claim.

Issues

 

 

1) Does anyone know for a fact if I have 28 days + 3 days or 28 days + 5 days to file a defence?

 

• If I have just 28 days from the date of Notice then my defence is due tomorrow 22nd September. OR If it’s 31 days then my defence is due on 25th September OR if it’s 33 days then it’s due on 27th September.
  

2) I have read the different posts on this site extensively but I’m still confused. I thought I knew what to do but now I’m just more confused! So should I:

a) Use form N244 to apply for an extension of time to file a defence based on the fact that the claimant and its Sols have not sent me the requested information.

b) If taking the above step, would I need to add a draft order to this? If yes, what should this say?

c) Should I just file a defence stating I am not able to file a proper defence as the Claimant have not supplied me with the information I requested to file my defence using the words below which I found on a post here.

 

i) The claim as pleaded does not contain sufficient particulars to permit me to file a properly particularised and pleaded defence. Further, no documents supporting the claim in the particulars have been offered. I have made a request for disclosure, pursuant to Part 31 of the Civil Procedure Rules, to the Claimant to allow me to properly respond to the claim. The Claimant has failed to respond to the Part 31 request.

 

ii) It is Not admitted that I signed any agreement with Egg . If, which is not admitted, such an agreement exists the precise terms and date of any such agreement are not admitted. I do not have in my possession any such agreement and am not therefore able to comment thereon. The Claimant is put to strict proof as to the date and terms of such agreement.

 

iii) It is averred that if any agreement did exist that the aforesaid agreement would be a regulated agreement within the terms of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 ("the Act"). It is not admitted that any alleged Agreement is enforceable within the terms of the Act. As I do not have a copy of the said agreement the Claimant is put to strict proof that the aforesaid agreement was properly executed and has been enforceable at all times since its’ inception.

 

iv) Further and in the alternative it is not admitted that the sum claimed is lawfully owing. The Claimant is put to strict proof as to how the sum claimed has been calculated and as to how it is asserted that the sum claimed is contractually owing.

 

v) Further and in any event in view of the failure to comply with the CPR Part 31 request it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to costs as claimed.

 

vi) In view of the above, it is denied that I am indebted to the Claimant as alleged or at all.

 

Statements of Truth

I believe that the facts stated in this defence are true.

 

Signed xxx

 

3) I have just now noticed that I did not specify a deadline date for the information requested from Egg!!! How damaging is this? What should I do? Please see an extract below:

……Please treat this letter as my request made under CPR 31.14 for the disclosure and the production of a verified and legible copy of documents below:

……… If you are unable to comply with this request and believe that you will never be able to comply with this request you must tell me in writing.

Please note that if you should fail to comply with this request, fail to request more time or fail to agree to an extension of time for the filing of my defence, I will make an application to the court for an order that the proceedings be struck out or stayed for non-compliance and a summary costs order………..

 

 

4) I specified in my letter to Aplins to supply information within 7 days, this deadline has now gone past. What steps should I now take? Extract below:

 

You should ensure compliance with your CPR 31 duties and ensure that the documents I have requested are copied to and received by me within 7 days of receiving this letter. Your CPR 31 duties extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for the originals of the documents I have requested, the better for you to be able to verify the document's authenticity and to provide me with a legible copy………. If you are unable to comply with this request and believe that you will never be able to comply with this request you must tell me in writing.

 

Please note that if you should fail to comply with this request, fail to request more time or fail to agree to an extension of time for the filing of my defence, I will make an application to the court for an order that the proceedings be struck out or stayed for non-compliance and a summary costs order……

 

 

I would really really appreciate anyone that can help me urgently!

Edited September 21, 2010 by magirose

[magirose]

I hope I have pasted in the right section. Can anyone help?

Sorry I'm being impatient!

[coledog]

Hi

 

I will try and help but am not that brilliant at this. First can you ring the court today and ask them when exactly the defence has to be submitted and if you can amend it before it is submitted to the claimant. You need to submit an 'embarrassed' defence as you have not received the requested documents from the solicitor under the CPR request so need to add the dates etc when this was requested. It looks like you have got the gist of it. The CPR does go to the solicitor not Egg so this bit looks OK.

 

Can you type in or scan the details in the POC particularly any documents they say they are relying on - removing any personal details? Also are they claiming the full amount?

 

Important - Do Egg still own this or has it been sold to someone else? I am not sure of this from your post.

[Honeypot]

Subbing

[magirose]

Many thanks Coledog for responding to my post! Sometimes you don’t think about the simple solutions to problems!!

I’ve called court and a nice gentleman there said that as the claims form was dated 25th August, I start counting the 28days from 30th Aug. So I have till Monday 27th of Sept to file my defence.

He also said that one option I can take (which is advisable) is to file my defence (by fax) by lunchtime on Monday, stating my case and within this defence stating that the Claimant did not respond to my request for information.

He said I should outline my case properly as I know, stating the dates the request were sent and that I was not able to defend properly as I never received the required info needed to defend the claim. More like the sample defence I wrote above.

It's Ok Honeypot you're bumping up my post.

[coledog]

Hi and welcome

 

Honeypot is one step behind you! Yes, the court are describing an 'embarrassed' defence which is almost what you have. If you can give some more details from the POC it would be useful as you need to counteract what they depending on in the defence and also need to know who owns the debt.

[magirose]

Thank you so much. I am not able to scan the claim form today but will do it tomorrow morning.

 

After reading through the different post, I see now that the POC on the form I was sent is very vague! It states:

‘The Claimant’s claim against the defendant is for the amount due and unpaid as at today’s date under a regulated running monthly credit account’

 

And that’s it!!

 

Surprisingly, I’m not sure if the debt is still owned by Egg!! I have a letter dated 2nd Aug 2010 from Aplins Solicitors stating they had been instructed by Direct Legal & Collections on behalf of Egg. Does this mean that Direct Legal owns the debt?

 

The name of the claimant on the claims form is Egg Banking and Aplins is down for corresponding address.

 

Please let me know if I need to post more information for anyone to help me adjust the defence I have written above.

[magirose]

Just a quick addition as to who owns the debt, I just found some more correspondence.

· A letter from Capital Credit Agencies dated 19/01/2010 stating they have been appointed by Egg to contact me.

· A letter from Resolvecall dated 17/02/2010 stating they are acting on behalf of Capital Credit Agencies in relation to my Egg account.

· A letter from Egg dated 04/05/2010 stating my Egg card agreement has been terminated and passed on to an external debt collections agency.

· A letter from Direct Legal & Collections (DLC) dated 17/05/2010 saying my account has been passed to them. Also have two more letters from DLC dated 23/06/2010 & 21/07/2010 respectively.

 

So I figured that DLC owns the debt then? But why is Egg bringing the claim?

[barrowby]

Hi Magirose....I think that I am just about to get a POC from Egg and will enter the same arena as you!

 

Now let me start by saying that I am in no way as qualified as many posters on CAG....so hopefully someone more clued up will be along to help!! just like coledog has done so far.

 

I would say that if Egg are listed as the claimant on the POC they are still the owners of the debt.

 

I have had contact form all the companies that you sight and they all seem to be "acting" for Egg as opposed to "owning" the debt.

 

Either way.....If you have a POC stating that Egg are demading the money....you need to treat that as so.

 

If you find some concrete evidence to the contary then this could form part of your more particularised defence.

 

I will be watching close and wish you luck.

 

Oh...and my final piece of advice.....DO NOT leave the drafting and submitting of your defence until the last min....It will give you sleepless nights and grey hairs!!!......I am watching them grow right now with another case I have!!!

[coledog]

Hi

 

Looks like Egg still own this - it looks like the company working for you did requested a credit agreement but it is possible there isn't one. DLC were just acting as DCAs.

 

Are they claiming the full amount owed?

 

In your CPR did you request a default notice and breakdown of payments, costs etc, statements? Do you know when the last payment was made and do you have a default notice from Egg?

 

Sorry to ask all this but will try and look at the defence later. I think it is quite straightforward.

[Honeypot]

Magirose I am in a similar situation with Egg. I took out on line in Aug 2005. Have you got your CCA?

If so see if your agreement is like mine with the illusive condition 8 that is missing of it!

Read through this-

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?248620-DLC-haved-refused-my-I-E-because-of-my-dog/page6

 

Vicky

xxxx

[magirose]

Thank you all for your contributions, it really helps when you know there are other people who have done this or are doing this as well as you.

 

I will as much as I can of what's happening here Barrowby, this might help you and anyone one else being bugged by the rotten Egg!

 

Coledog, yes, they are claiming the full amount plus court fees and solicitors cost. I can’t seem to find any DN from them but I have a letter referring to it so I guess I have to do more rummaging through my documents to see if I can find one.

 

Please see the attached PDF of the claims form here, nothing concrete on it! Form.pdf

 

I didn’t ask for the Breakdown in the requests I sent. Please see below extracts from the CPR request I sent to both Aplins and Egg

Egg -

1. A true copy of the executed credit agreement and any terms and conditions that applied to the account at the time the account was opened.

2. All records you hold on me relevant to this case, including but not limited to:

a. Transcriptions of all telephone conversations recorded and any notes.

b. Any manual intervention by any person or notes, which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to the account.

c. True copies of any notice of assignment and/or default notice or enforcement notice that you sent me, with a copy of any proof of postage that you hold.

d. Documents relating to any insurance added to the account, including the insurance contract and terms and conditions, date it was added and deleted

e. Details of any collection charge added to the account; specifically, the date it was levied, the amount of the charge, a detailed financial breakdown of how the charge was calculated, and what the charge covers.

f. A genuine copy of any notice of fair use of my data as required by the Data Protection Act 1998

g. A list of third party agencies to whom you have disclosed my personal data and a summary of the nature of the information you have disclosed.

h. Copies of statements for the entire duration of the credit agreement.

3. Any other documents you seek to rely on in court.

 

 

Aplins

 

1. The agreement, a true copy of both sides of the original executed agreement. You will appreciate that in an ordinary case and by reason of the provisions of CPR PD 16 para 7.3, where a claim is based upon a written agreement, a copy of the contract or documents constituting the agreement should be attached to or served with the particulars of claim and the originals should be available at the hearing. Further, that any general conditions incorporated in the contract should also be attached.

2. The default notice(s)

3. The termination notice(s)

4. All Egg Banking PLC communications log relevant to this account.

5. The Regulated Running Monthly Credit Account document(s) mentioned in the Particulars of Claim

I’m going to send out a letter to Aplins today informing them that they have not complied with the CPR request I sent them on the 10th of September, something more to add to my defence.

 

Thanks for the link HP, I’ve read through it. I took out my card about the same time as yours and I actually found a copy of what I printed off the Internet at the time! Couldn’t believe I had kept it for 5 years! So like you, I never received a copy on the post to sign. But it'll be good to compare this with whatever they send to me (if they ever do).

 

Like I said before, I haven’t received any document from them (agreement or Ts & Cs) so still waiting. I’m not sure if these were ever sent to CCLS who were disputing the account on my behalf (pls see my 1st post).

 

So what do I do next? I feel like there should be more to do in preparation for filing my defence!

[coledog]

Your letters are fine - you have asked for everything correctly from both but it is the stuff from the solicitor you really need.

 

I will a try and help with the defence later today - need to put some things together. You need to respectfully ask for more time, for one thing, and a couple of other things. I will try and get some examples.

 

Sorry - am at work so a bit pushed.

[magirose]

Thanks Coledog!

[coledog]

Attempt at defence below but could do with a bit more information on the POC as it needs to refer to anything they have said in that. Also, which court has it been issued through (e.g. Northampton) and is it for less than £5000?

 

Anyone - feel free to amend this.

 

In the XXXXXXXXXXX County Court

 

Claim number ££££££

 

between

 

Egg Banking PLC - claimant

 

and

 

 

££££££££ - Defendant

 

Defence

(Full name and address)

 

1. I £££££££ of £££££££££ am the defendant in this action and make the following statement as my defence to the claim made by Egg Banking PLC.
   
2. Except where otherwise mentioned in this defence, I neither admit nor deny any allegation made in the claimants Particulars of Claim and put the claimant to strict proof thereof.
   
3. The claim as pleaded does not contain sufficient particulars to permit the defendant to file a properly particularised and pleaded defence. Further, no documents supporting the claim in the particulars have been offered. The defendant made a request for disclosure, pursuant to Part 31 of the Civil Procedure Rules, to the claimant to allow the defendant to properly respond to the claim on (date). The claimant has failed to respond to the Part 31 request.
   
4. It is Not admitted that the defendant signed any agreement with the claimant . If, which is not admitted, such an agreement exists, the precise terms and date of any such agreement are not admitted. The defendant does not have in their possession any such agreement and is not therefore able to comment thereon. The claimant is put to strict proof as to the date and terms of such agreement.
   
5. It is averred that if any agreement did exist that the aforesaid agreement would be a regulated agreement within the terms of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 ("the Act"). It is not admitted that any alleged Agreement is enforceable within the terms of the Act. As the defendant does not have a copy of the said agreement the claimant is put to strict proof that the aforesaid agreement was properly executed and has been enforceable at all times since its’ inception.
   
6. Further and in the alternative it is not admitted that the sum claimed is lawfully owing. The claimant is put to strict proof as to how the sum claimed has been calculated and as to how it is asserted that the sum claimed is contractually owing.
   
7. Further and in any event in view of the failure to comply with the CPR Part 31 request it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to costs as claimed.
   
8. In view of the above, it is denied that the defendant is indebted to the Claimant as alleged or at all.
   
9. The defendant respectfully asks the court for permission to amend this defence in the case of further documentation being received from the Claimant.
   
10. The Defendant wishes to allow the Claimant additional time to produce the documents mentioned above and would respectfully ask the court to allow a further 14 days for this. Should the documents not be produced then the Defendant asks the court to exercise its powers to strike out the Claimants claim.
    

Statements of Truth

 

I believe that the facts stated in this defence are true.

 

Signed

 

xxxxx

[magirose]

Thanks again Coledog, this looks like it covers all the issues. There isn't much in the POC and it's actually attached in line 4 or so in my post #12 above.

 

I got a letter from Egg today blabbing about my request for phone call transcripts!!

Your Request for Information Under the Data Protection Act

 

Dear Miss ***

 

Thank you for your request for a copy of phone calls/call transcript. Please provide us with the approximate dates, times and the nature of the calls. These details will help us find the calls you need.

 

Additionally, as part of the subject Access Request (SAR) we will provide a copy of the account notes which include call contact information

 

Yours sincerely

Head of Transaction Services

 

Surely they can read! I made a CPR request not DPA!

 

Anyway, Aplins are the main ones and they have not sent anything even though the 7 days deadline they had has come and gone now.

 

Like Coledog said above - Anyone - feel free to amend the defence.

[coledog]

Hi

 

Have sent you a PM.

 

As the POC is so vague - I have suggested an alternative embarrassed defence with thanks to 'Foolishgirl'. I can try and combine the two later today, if you like.

 

I, xxxx of xxxxx make this statement as my defence to the claim brought by xxxxxxxx

 

2. The claimants particulars of claim are vague and fail to disclose any cause of action, they appear to be an abuse of the process in that they fail to deal with the basic rules of pleading in accordance with the CPR even allowing for the constraints of the bulk issue system

 

3. No documents supporting the claims in the particulars have been offered and despite a request to the claimant for further information via CPR 31.14 dated xx/xx/xxxx sent by recorded delivery none has been forthcoming and as a result I cannot plead in defence to the claim

 

4. Without clarification of the claimants claim, the defendant is extremely disadvantaged and the claimants claim appears without merit, the defendant asks to be allowed to submit a fully particularised defence should the claimant provide copies of the original documents he will rely upon.

 

5. Further to the above, the defendant is unable to plead effectively or at all. The defendant is embarrassed.

 

Statement of Truth

 

I believe the above statement to be true and factual

Signed

 

Dated

[coledog]

Have put together a simpler defence and got in the the bit about the bulk issue system and the '‘regulated running monthly credit account’ which is the only information they have given you.

 

In the Northampton County Court

Claim number ££££££

 

between

 

Egg Banking PLC - claimant

 

and

 

££££££££ - Defendant

 

Defence

(Full name and address)

 

1. I £££££££ of £££££££££ am the defendant in this action and make the following statement as my defence to the claim made by Egg Banking PLC.

 

2. Except where otherwise mentioned in this defence, I neither admit nor deny any allegation made in the claimants Particulars of Claim and put the claimant to strict proof thereof.

 

3. The claimants Particulars of Claim are vague and fail to disclose any cause of action, they appear to be an abuse of the process in that they fail to deal with the basic rules of pleading in accordance with the CPR even allowing for the constraints of the bulk issue system

 

4. No documents supporting the claims in the particulars have been offered and despite a request to the claimant for further information via CPR 31.14 dated xx/xx/xxxx sent by recorded delivery none has been forthcoming and as a result the defendent cannot plead in defence to the claim

 

 

5. The claimants Particulars of Claim refer to a ‘regulated running monthly credit account’. It is Not admitted that the defendant signed any agreement with the claimant for such an account. If, which is not admitted, such an agreement exists, the precise terms and date of any such agreement are not admitted. The defendant does not have in their possession any such agreement and is not therefore able to comment thereon. The claimant is put to strict proof as to the date and terms of such agreement.

 

 

6. It is averred that if any agreement did exist that the aforesaid agreement would be a regulated agreement within the terms of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 ("the Act"). It is not admitted that any alleged Agreement is enforceable within the terms of the Act. As the defendant does not have a copy of the said agreement the claimant is put to strict proof that the aforesaid agreement was properly executed and has been enforceable at all times since its’ inception.

 

 

7. Without clarification of the claimants claim, the defendant is extremely disadvantaged and the claimants claim appears without merit, the defendant respectfully asks the court to be allowed to submit a fully particularised defence should the claimant provide copies of the original documents they will rely upon.

 

8. The defendant wishes to allow the claimant additional time to produce the documents mentioned above and would respectfully ask the court to allow a further 14 days for this. Should the documents not be produced then the defendant asks the court to exercise its powers to strike out the claimants claim.

 

9. Further to the above, the defendant is unable to plead effectively or at all. The defendant is embarrassed.

 

Statement of Truth

 

I believe the above statement to be true and factual

 

Signed

 

Dated

[magirose]

Aw! Thank you so much Coledog, this is really kind of you.

This is even better as it’s incorporated all the facts!

I have my defence now! I’ll fax it Monday morning, just in case I do receive something from Aplins by the weekend, even though I doubt that very much.

Many thanks again.

[coledog]

No problem - your defence needs to reflect the POC which doesn't say anything. I would get it off as if you receive anything now you will need time to re-write it anyway.

 

You need to write to Alpins again just to remind them that they have not responded to your CPR request. By recorded delivery and keep copies as you may need to send these to the court.

[magirose]

Coledog, just sent you a PM, I need some sample letter templates please.

Thanks

[coledog]

PM sent

[magirose]

Thanks Coledog, defence faxed off and copy sent in the post recorded delivery.

 

M.