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61met

Employee rights - Annual Leave - Agenda for change

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Hi

 

Is there anyone out there who is familiar with the NHS's agenda for change.

 

I work for the NHS, and along with 4 colleagues have a contract for set hours not including bank holidays.With several changes in supervisor over a number of years and newer colleagues with different contracts, our annual leave entitlement has been cut.

 

My annual leave is calculated in 2 parts under the 'agenda for change'. A basic element, which is made up of my statutory entitlement and long service element. A second element is made up for bank holiday allowance. All employees are given an allowance although how much you need to use is affected by your work days. ie if your working days are mondays then you'd need to use more annual leave if you didnt want to work the bank holidays than if you worked wednesdays only.

 

Following on from a disagreement with regard to Christmas working. Myself and my colleagues have had our annual leave entitlement slashed without notice.

 

In addition to this they have stopped a flexible element to our working pattern in which we were able to swap shifts. We have a contract where we work set hours either 1 weekend in 3 or 1 weekend in 6. We have beeen told now after 11 years employemnt that we need to complete any swapped shifts inside of a week. This is obviously impossible when we work such a shift pattern.

 

Help!!!!!!

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Hello there. I'm sorry to hear about your problems.

 

If you don't get replies here, you might try posting something on the NHS forum at CAG. Please don't copy and paste this, they don't like it! but you might find people who understand the system better than people on this forum.

 

My best, HB


Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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thanks for that but did look at NHS section first but it seemed to be more of a patient forum rather than employer/employee...May try it anyway

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Hello again. I think it's worth posting on NHS as well, because I know staff read it.

 

I don't think you've said how much annual leave you're entitled to. Is it the statutory 28 days or more, including bank holidays?

 

HB


Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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Hi 61met....... My wife just went through a 3 year grievance with the NHS over their insistence that she change her contract when she could not. She is now out on an ill health pension. She may be able to answer some of your questions but is out at the present.

 

Can I ask a couple of questions, was this a job share arrangement with the other staff and arranged with a contract between you all? Please explain the circumstances in how the arrangement came about. What grades are you all? have you been on to your union ? What have they said. Have you looked at the Agenda fro Change information on the RCN website?

 

What percentage of hours do you work in relation to the share? This is probably pertinent to the bank holiday entitlement. Was the flexible element done because of child care arrangements if so there could be an issue of Indirect Sex Discrimination.

 

Finally have you any independent Legal Expenses Insurance should you want to fight this? You can find this on home contents insurance policies.

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Thanks for your interest. I work in Admin +Clerical as Band 2 but only work 14 hrs (set hours) one weekend in three. my hours are annualised to average out to 4.67 hrs per wk. Its not a job share but there are 4 other colleagues on similar if not identical contracts.

 

I'm entitled to a basic element of 26hrs annual leave with an additional 7hrs for bank holiday allowance giving a total of 34hrs.

 

After our recent dispute regarding christmas working we have had our bank holiday allowance taken away. As i understand it from when the Agenda for change, the change in the calculation for annual leave was altered to make leave fairer to ALL employees and that just because we arent contracted to Bank Holidays doesnt mean she can just take away this holiday. Especially without even informing us.

 

Although we have fixed hours on fixed weekends there has always (in the eleven years I've worked there) been the flexibility to swap shifts with people working the same shift pattern as you. There has never been a time limit in which to complete the swap. As new staff have joined with different contracts this has natrually become more difficult as there are less people working the same shifts as ourselves. The fact that we are expected to complete swaps inside a week when none of our shift patterns can accomodate this is ridiculous and can only be classed as victimisation.

 

It has been mentioned several times in the last 2 years that the contracts of us five will undergo 'consultation' but as yet nothing has happened. The hours and shift pattern we do hasnt been adapted to suit us, it is the hours the post was advertised as when we joined.

 

I have contacted my union rep and am waiting to be contacted by her. My collegue has also been onto HR but we're not holding our breath.

 

I've not been on the RCN web site and although thats obviously for nursing staff may be of some help. I'm with UNITE.

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Sorry, I have asked my wife about this and she cannot help. She agrees with me that this is quite complex. There is a couple of points that I would make.

 

First although you may feel it is wrong I don't think legally this would be classed as victimisation. You need to have an element of discrimination and have either an allegation / beginnings of a complaint eg grievance / or an ET claim lodged for victimisation to be a start. From what you have said so far I can't see it.

 

Next what happened as a result of the Christmas dispute? Did you all eventually comply or not? If you complied then perhaps you agreed by your actions to the changes.

 

You don't say whether it is in your contract or not but if it isn't then the issue of swapping could be construed as a custom or practice that effectively has become part of the normal working conditions. However I think management have a right to change this, after consultation, if there is a genuine business reason for doing so.

 

I suppose you could all write to your employer asking for an explanation as to why they are changing your working arrangements and contract (perhaps you should wait and get Union advice too). If their explanation is not good enough you have the option to raise a joint grievance.

 

From a personal point of view I have found that generally each employee looks to his / her own circumstances and probably a joint grievance will fall apart because one or more won't want to take management on. Even if you do, the chances are that you will lose. It seems from what you have said that management probably view you all as a bit of a problem that they could do without and for that reason their stance is likely to be uncompromising.

 

Let us know how you get on. Good luck.

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Hi

 

Although we feel we are being singled out as far as Shift swaps are concerned it is our secondary concern at the moment and think it will be easier to establish if, half way through an annual leave year it has been cut for no reason that they can justify.

 

We have all been working in the office for over ten years, way before agenda for change. We were employed to work 14 hrs 1 weekend in 3 as well as Bank holidays on the same basis on a rotational basis. This never included christmas day.

 

When Agenda for Change came about we all got issued with new contracts. After several changes of supervisor and at least 2 years since we received our new contracts we were told that we weren't contracted to work bank holidays and that she didnt need us to cover them as all the new staff are contracted to 365 days a year including christmas if needed. As you can imagine we didnt need telling twice and so far havent worked a bank holiday since.

 

Last year Boxing Day fell on a Sunday, given that all the previous goings on are all documented I went to the current supervisor to say that I wouldnt be working as it was my weekend. She refused leave, really dug her heals in. After 3 months of backwards and forwarding I eventually got the leave. This year christmas and boxing day falls on a weekend and my colleague has experienced exactly the same thing.

Again after several months they have finally agreed to this years leave.

 

It was only when she went to get her leave card signed that it became apparent that she had had her bank holiday allowance element taken off her leave allowance. This also coincides with the memo regarding shift swapping.

 

I had thought about using 'custom and practice' as far as the shift swaps were concerned but will see how it goes. Still waiting to hear from HR and Unions but was hoping someone on here may have some other views on the matter.

 

Thanks for looking

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Hi I am aware this thread has been inactive for over a month but see you are still having issues on this issue in your "Consultation" thread where your employer is consulting changing so you work bank holidays etc. I'm a nurse (under AfC) so it peeked my interest!

 

As I understand it, Christmas Day and Boxing day this year are not classed as Public Holidays as they fall on the weekend, but Monday 27th and Tuesday 28th are. For example, if I work Xmas day this year I will only get Saturday enhancements NOT PH. This is exactly why we get PH hours due to shift work where we aren't guaranteed the actual (under AfC) public holidays.

 

As you are not working these PH that fall on a weekend then I think your employer would be correct in taking the PH hours off of you but I don't think this is laid down in AfC but I'm no expert. Are you actually in breach of your contract by not attending your rota'd days, i.e. weekends? Again, PH cannot fall on a weekend under AfC.

 

P.S. Sorry I cannot help with the shift swapping. Seems unreasonable to me personally however.


Disclaimer: Any advice given is solely my own. I advise you seek professional advice in the first instance.

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Thanks for your help. As stated under our existing contracts (although not for much longer) we are not contracted to work public/bank holidays. We are entitled to take annual leave and dont feel when making the request at least 4 months in advance and having the request turned down flat acceptable, especailly when no effort was made to see if anyone was willing to cover.

 

I also understand there is an element to my a/l allowance that has a Bank holiday part to it. Without notice at the end of last month we this part taken away. Apparently this was because of a policy review although it has since transpired that my supervisor jumped the gun and wrongly reduced my entitlement.

 

With consultation going through now, management want me to be available for all Bank Holidays. This is equivallent to my working 3 months on my pro rata basis of 1 weekend in 3. Unlike full time staff I will only get the bank holiday allowance pro rata but will be expected to work them all. This means a full time member of staff could, if the service permitted take leave for all bank holidays but I couldnt because I dont have enough leave to do so. In addtion to this my annual leave entitlement wouldnt be based on these additional 8 days but only on my standard annualised hours! It seems I loose all ways.

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