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    • what rights of access do you have on your agreement with the landlord?   i suspect you shouldn't have to pay a thing.
    • then there is your proof to them why would you pay for BB twice!!   for my notes: GENERAL NOTES ON CHARGEBACK & Continuous Payment Authority & BACS   .....  We have been telling people to put a letter into their bank instructing them  not to make any payments under any circumstances to these companies  . http://whatconsumer.co.uk/visa-debit-chargeback/- it works! usually this should be done using the number on your debit card  .  banks MUST follow written intructions from their customers ! . CANCELLING YOUR DEBIT CARD DOES NOT STOP CPA'S  .  This fsa guide has now been updated:  . http://www.fsa.gov.uk/static/pubs/consumer_info/know_your_rights_guide.pdf http://www.fca.org.uk/news/continuous-payment-authorities-your-right-to-cancel https://www.fca.org.uk/consumers/unauthorised-payments-account  .  Here's the text:  .  Cancelling a regular  card payment:  .  When you give your credit or debit card details to a company and authorise them to take regular payments from your account,   such as for a gym membership or magazine subscription,  it is known as a ‘recurring transaction’ or ‘continuous payment authority’.  . These are often confused with direct debits, but do not offer the same guarantee if the amount or date of the payment changes.  .  In most cases, regular payments can be cancelled by telling the company taking the payments.   .  However,   you have the right to cancel them directly with your bank or card issuer by telling it that you have stopped permission for the payments.   Your bank or card issuer must then stop them – it has no right to insist that you agree this first with the company taking the payments.  .  Be aware, though, that you will still be responsible for paying any money that you owe. and that CANCELLING YOUR CARD WILL NOT STOP THE CPA  .  ..  .  New june 2013  .  Regulator orders Banks and mutuals to review complaints about not cancelling recurring payments from November 2009.  .  Consumers who have set up a regular payment from their account will now be able to successfully cancel that arrangement   by contacting their card provider, the Financial Conduct Authority said.  .  The FCA has been examining how easy it is for customers to cancel Continuous Payment Authorities (CPAs)   due either to payday lendersicon or for other regular payments such as subscriptions or gymicon memberships.  .  CPAs, which are also commonly called recurring transactions or recurring payments,   are relatively easy to set up but can be hard to cancel, causing problems for consumers trying to manage their finances,the FCA said.  .  Now, following the FCA review of how the largest high street banks and mutuals process requests to cancel CPAs, they have agreed that they will ensure that when   a customer asks for a recurring payment to end, that will be sufficient to cancel the arrangement. They have also confirmed that should a payment go through by   mistake following cancellation by a customer the customer will be refunded immediately.  .  In addition to securing this commitment, the largest banks and mutuals have agreed to review every individual complaint they have received about the non-  cancellation of a CPA and to pay redress where payments have continued to be made despite the customer cancelling the arrangement. This applies to all complaints   since November 2009 when the Financial Services Authority, the FCA’s predecessor, began regulating banking conduct.  .  Clive Adamson, the FCA’s director of supervision, said: “It’s important that consumers are confident that banks are meeting their everyday banking needs. Today   customers can be confident that when they ask for a Continuous Payment Authority to be cancelled – it will be cancelled - and that it can be done easily.   . “We recognise that historically this is an area where some customers have struggled but the banks and mutuals have responded positively to our work on this issue.   From now on we expect them to be getting this right. In addition, they have committed to review past complaints.” .  .  Also mentioned your displeasure that as whomever took your money had obviously attempted this many times   probably activating your banks own anti fraud software - nobody had the decency to inform my you this was going on.? .  .In the FSA's own words:  .  ..  What should I do about a payment from my account that I didn’t authorise?  .  Your bank must refund an unauthorised transaction.   Money can only be taken from your account if you have authorised the transaction   or if your bank can prove you were at fault –  . see below.  Contact your bank immediately if you notice an unauthorised payment from your account. .  If you are sure you did not authorise the payment, you can claim a refund.  .  However, your bank does not have to refund you if you do not tell it about the payment until 13 months  or more after the date it left your account.  .  Your bank must refund an unauthorised transaction  .  ------------------  .  Your bank may only refuse a refund for an unauthorised transaction if:  .  ? it can prove you authorised the transaction  – though your bank cannot simply say that use of your password,   card and PIN proves you authorised a payment; or .  ? it can prove you are at fault because you acted fraudulently,   or because you deliberately,   or with gross negligence, failed to protect the details of your card, PIN or password in a way that allowed the transaction  .  -----------------------  .  How quickly must my bank refund me for an unauthorised transaction?  .  The bank must make the refund immediately unless it has evidence that one of the above reasons applies.   Your bank may ask you to answer some questions and fill out a form confirming what has happened,   but it cannot delay your refund while it waits for you to return the form.  If the bank has evidence that one of the above reasons for refusing a refund applies,   it may investigate before making a refund   but must look into it as quickly as possible.   If your bank rejects your claim for a refund it should explain why.  If the transaction was on a credit card, the refund may not happen immediately.   But the card issuer cannot charge interest or ask for repayment of the amount unless it can prove you are liable to pay        
    • Only asking because I want to get my facts right before I approach the bank! Yes, BT is coming out of the same account.
    • not if they want to make the OP the named claimant no!! let them take the other party to court themselves!! the op can be a witness then..   one bitten...read this thread..      
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Rocky Roadster

Debt over 15 years old; OC says they don't need to supply a CCA?

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Hi all,

 

I have a credit card that I owe £10k to and cannot make any payments to at the moment. I have sent I/E forms and every time they come back and ignore my proportional offer and demand more than anyone else.

 

I have no money at the moment (a long moment) and am not paying anyone. Last payment was May 2010 I think.

 

I asked this credit card company for the CCA and they sent current terms and a statement and a letter attached saying they don't need to supply a CCA as it was before 1985.

 

They haven't written since July. Calm before the storm, or are they stumped?

 

I haven't sent a dispute letter yet as I don't know whether I have got a case or not.

 

:???:

 

Any suggestions please?

 

many thanks,

 

RR

NatWest Mastercard - anon - 15-07-10.pdf


Rocky

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Was the agreement sent by natwest or a dca (trident for example)

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Was the request for the agreement a formal request under s77 to s79 of the cca 1974

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God, I hate NatWest! I don't know about the legal claptrap, someone else will have to look at that but it looks very suspicious to me.

 

If they were unable to supply an agreement, they should have returned your £1 or accepted it as a fee - they should not have applied it to your account.


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Hi,

Thanks for the quick response.

 

All communications have been with Natwest rather than a DCA.

 

My request was as follows:

 

This letter is a formal request pursuant to s.77(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. I require you to provide me with a true copy of the credit agreement relating to the above account, together with any other documentation the Act requires you to provide.

 

Based on a CAG template.

 

RR


Rocky

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Should have been section 78 I suppose. Sent this letter in June when I was just getting into the fight.

 

Hope that won't affect my position.

 

RR


Rocky

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Just a passing observation which would make me extremely suspicious, they clearly state that ;

"Your written request for information under s78(1) of the CCA must be  accompanied by payment of a fee of £1, which we have received and has  been applied to your account accordingly"

So in doing so, they will have restarted the limitation period.

The £1 stat fee is for them to supply the agreement, therfore they have stated that they cannot do so due to the age of the account, so should return the stat fee ASAP and not ally it to the 'alleged' account. Ruddy chancers....!!!!


Who ever heard of someone getting a job at the Jobcentre? The unemployed are sent there as penance for their sins, not to help them find work!

 

 

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Just a passing observation which would make me extremely suspicious, they clearly state that ;

"Your written request for information under s78(1) of the CCA must be accompanied by payment of a fee of £1, which we have received and has been applied to your account accordingly"

So in doing so, they will have restarted the limitation period.

The £1 stat fee is for them to supply the agreement, therfore they have stated that they cannot do so due to the age of the account, so should return the stat fee ASAP and not ally it to the 'alleged' account. Ruddy chancers....!!!!

 

My 1st observation. What can Rocky do to rectify this???? Anybody know????


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Consumer Credit Act 1974 (c. 39)

 

SCHEDULE 3 Transitional and Commencement Provisions

 

icon_closed_level.gif

Duty to give information

icon_closed_level.gif

17. — (1) Sections 77 to 80 come into operation on [F3 19th May 1985].

 

(2) Sections 77 to 79 apply to an agreement made before [F3 19th May 1985]where the agreement would have been a regulated agreement if made on that day.Annotations:

 

 

Although they are correct in stating 19th May 1985 to be the day that secs 77-80 come into force, they accidentally omit the rather pertinent 2nd part of section 17 (Schedule 3) ie. :

(2) Sections 77 to 79 apply to an agreement made before 19th May 1985 where the agreement would have been a regulated agreement if made on that day.

 

I'm guessing your a/c would have been a regulated agreement if "made on that day"......

 

Now the current terms thing deals with instances whereby:

 

(Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983)

 

9

Any copy of an executed agreement made before 19th May 1985 or of a security instrument relating to security provided before that date which is given to the debtor, hirer or surety under any provision of the Act on or after that date may

comprise an easily legible statement of the current terms of the agreement or security as the case may be insofar as they are known to the creditor or owner where, due to an accident or some other cause beyond his control, the creditor or owner does not have in his possession the executed agreement or security instrument or any copy thereof.

 

 

So maybe you should be asking the OC exactly what accident has befallen the original, remembering that a statement made by the creditor under sec 78 is deemed binding.

Edited by Jasper1965

As of 03/03/12 please do not under any circumstances wait for my further input or guidance on any current thread or defence of a court claim I might have been involved in on or through Cag.

Jasper1965

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RR

 

You must reply to them and say: Re your letter... I do not accept the enclosed as a true copy of the credit agreement requested. As you have failed to supply a copy of an agreement the 'account is in dispute' see the 'Account in Dispute letter' and therefore tell them that they must return your £1 payment as this was provided for the sole purpose of supplying an agreement and no other reason. They must also inform you in writing that they don't have a copy of the agreement.

 

Add - Although you are correct in stating 19th May 1985 to be the day that secs 77-80 Consumer Credit Act 1974 (add correct ref from letter) come into force, I would like to refer you to the 2nd part of section 17 (Schedule 3) ie. :

(2) Sections 77 to 79 apply to an agreement made before 19th May 1985 where the agreement would have been a regulated agreement if made on that day.

Also I would like to draw your attention to regulation 9 of the Copy regulations which states.

Any copy of an executed agreement made before 19th May 1985 or of a security instrument relating to security provided before that date which is given to the debtor, hirer or surety under any provision of the Act on or after that date may comprise an easily legible statement of the current terms of the agreement or security as the case may be insofar as they are known to the creditor or owner where, due to an accident or some other cause beyond his control, the creditor or owner does not have in his possession the executed agreement or security instrument or any copy thereof.

Please can you inform me by which means my original agreement was lost.

 

 

 

 


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So basically, the agreement should be covered by the act and they are lying by omission, and trying to keep the agreement going by crediting my account with the £1 fee.

 

I'm getting cross. Time for a dispute letter perhaps.

 

Fantastic link Jasper. That helps a lot. As you say, they have deliberately missed out the pertinent bit.

 

The application of the £1 fee only restarts the limitation period by 1 month, so perhaps I should hold that for future ammunition.

 

As I haven't heard from them since July, should I ignore them for now, or write to them and ask "what accident" as you suggest. If they make one up I could send them a SAR which would be interesting.

 

Thanks,

 

RR


Rocky

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Hi Rocky

 

The other thing to bear in mind is if the Agreement has been 'varied' i.e. that the interest rate has increased, then they need to provide a copy of the original agreement with the latest terms and conditions. Carey v HSBC (2009).

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Hi,

All they have sent is the letter, copy statement from June, a letter saying "here's your replacement card" (undated) and a standard credit card agreement printout. No original agreement.

 

RR

 

 

 

,


Rocky

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