The loading bay, a private scooter & the Post Office

[Sprogger]

Hi everyone,

 

Apologies if there is a thread that already covers this, I spent some time searching for the answer but couldn't find what I was looking for.

 

I used a loading bay during restricted hours for parking to "unload" a parcel from my scooter to the Post Office (the loading bay is directly outside). It took longer than usual but I didn't think I was there for more than 8 minutes. However, upon returning to my scooter, a PCN was attached with the attendant still needing to take a photo. I didn't say anything to him instead I just rode away grumbling whilst he took a photo of my backside.

 

The PCN is Haringey Council's contravention code 25: Parked in a loading place during restricted hours without loading. The time is from 16:01 to 16:08 so in fairness I suppose he did allow enough observation time for any activity before issuing it (that's if he didn't see me going inside) and then it's up to me to prove I was there legally.

 

My question is: Are these bays allowed (unless otherwise stated) for private use and for a situation such as mine? If so, what grounds do I need to make clear in the letter of appeal? Is there a template for this one?

 

I used to be a Motorcycle courier in London and didn't have any problems successfully appealing against these PCNs but those were for business and I had delivery sheets to prove the loading. I have a Post Receipt for this one, if it's valid.

 

I didn't think to take a photo of the sign when I went back to look at it again but I do know it seems to be well displayed and loading was allowed at the time of issue.

 

Thanks for your attention and any advice you can give me.

[TheBogsDollocks]

Most traffic orders will advise that "goods" includes "postal packets" and so yes it is possible the exemption applies to your situation. You will need to see the full traffic order that you allegedly contravened to see how the council define "goods".

[sailor sam]

Some loading bays are for goods vehicles only so it may depend on the singage and type or class of vehicle being used. I wouldn't of thought that a scooter is classed as a 'goods vehicle' but I could be wrong.

 

Please Note

 

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

I would always urge to seek professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

[bribri]

Why is the standard contravention code 25 allowed to be worded "Parked in a loading place during restricted hours without loading" When someone may be unloading.

[sailor sam]

Why is the standard contravention code 25 allowed to be worded "Parked in a loading place during restricted hours without loading" When someone may be unloading.

 

I guess it depends on how you interperate 'loading'. My take is that you are talking about items which are too bulky to carry from a 'normal' parking place. Otherwise, anyone with a letter or post card ect going in or out of the post office could park there and claim to be 'loading'. I would of thought if you were using a scooter, then the 'item' could not be bulky enough to warrant parking in a loading bay. As I said in my previous post, it all depends on the signage ect. Loading bays are normally restricted to vehicles which are purely designed to carry goods such as vans ect so even cars would not be able to use them. If the OP could post some pics up of the bay or give us the location then we may be able to look on Street View to see what signage is present and the type of bay it is.

 

Please Note

 

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

I would always urge to seek professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

[Bernie_the_Bolt]

Loading bays are normally restricted to vehicles which are purely designed to carry goods such as vans ect so even cars would not be able to use them.

 

I have to say this has never been my experience unless the bay is signed "good vehicles only" which most that I see are not.

 

The essential points are that it is only unloading/loading and activities that are directly related to unloading/loading that are permitted and that the use of the vehicle must be a necessity rather than a mere convenience.

[sailor sam]

I have to say this has never been my experience unless the bay is signed "good vehicles only" which most that I see are not.

 

The essential points are that it is only unloading/loading and activities that are directly related to unloading/loading that are permitted and that the use of the vehicle must be a necessity rather than a mere convenience.

 

In answer to youir opening comment; this is why I said that we will need to see the loading bay so we can check the signage.

 

And for the highlighted bit; I agree but I'm not sure that anything which can be carried on a scooter would qualify as 'loading' otherwise the bay could also be used by car drivers taking small objects to and from the post office who could argue that they were 'loading'. Again, we need to see the bay complete with signage.

 

Please Note

 

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

I would always urge to seek professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

[Sprogger]

Hi again!

 

Thanks for all your advice and info. I've finally managed to gather everything I can get my hands on.

 

It now seems clear they do allow couriers with postal packets but what is not clear is whether they allow private 2 wheeled motor vehicles as well.

 

My guess is that they won't so I'm thinking of somehow making up a courier's delivery/collection log. I'd prefer not to but I'm just so angry that they can do this, it really feels like I'm being robbed... legally! If I was blatantly ignoring the obvious and causing a major obstruction (on my scooter!) then fine, but not like this.

 

I tried putting a link here for the Code 25 rules, exceptions and exemptions from Haringey Council but only after 30 posts so I uploaded it as a gif but it gets resized to the degree where you can no longer read it. It's originally in a pdf format but I don't know how to extract it as text, only as an image.

 

If anyone can see an alternative way apart from biting the pillow and paying, I would be very grateful and in the meantime thank you again.

[Jamberson]

It now seems clear they do allow couriers with postal packets but what is not clear is whether they allow private 2 wheeled motor vehicles as well[/b].

 

What is the significance of couriers? Unless there is something specifying certain classes of vehicle in this bay, I don't see a contravention. If you are unloading, you are unloading.

 

Also, I would suggest it is presumptious of them to regard necessary unloading as only that of large items which cannot be carried on foot. It could also cover for example, hazardous substances, or small but heavy items.

 

I tried putting a link here for the Code 25 rules, exceptions and exemptions from Haringey Council but only after 30 posts so I uploaded it as a gif but it gets resized to the degree where you can no longer read it.

 

If it's a gif, can you open it on a PC with Paint? If so - open it, but save it as a jpeg. You can then load that either here or on a host site like photobucket.

[sailor sam]

Hi again!

 

Thanks for all your advice and info. I've finally managed to gather everything I can get my hands on.

 

It now seems clear they do allow couriers with postal packets but what is not clear is whether they allow private 2 wheeled motor vehicles as well.

 

My guess is that they won't so I'm thinking of somehow making up a courier's delivery/collection log. I'd prefer not to but I'm just so angry that they can do this, it really feels like I'm being robbed... legally! If I was blatantly ignoring the obvious and causing a major obstruction (on my scooter!) then fine, but not like this.

 

I tried putting a link here for the Code 25 rules, exceptions and exemptions from Haringey Council but only after 30 posts so I uploaded it as a gif but it gets resized to the degree where you can no longer read it. It's originally in a pdf format but I don't know how to extract it as text, only as an image.

 

If anyone can see an alternative way apart from biting the pillow and paying, I would be very grateful and in the meantime thank you again.

 

I doubt it. Apparently unless you are on a 'commercial' delivery, you would need to produce a receipt for a 'large item' to prove you were loading. Having said that, I find it strange that on the sign it shows that the 'no waiting' restriction ends when the loading exemption kicks in. Also, it states that loading is allowed for an hour! Not seen that long before.

 

Please Note

 

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

I would always urge to seek professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

[green_and_mean]

I very much doubt that queuing up to post a parcel in the Post Office would class as loading or unloading, a m/c courier is delivering a postal packet you are not you have unloaded the m/c and are in a shop waiting to post it.

[Sprogger]

If it's a gif, can you open it on a PC with Paint? If so - open it, but save it as a jpeg. You can then load that either here or on a host site like photobucket.

 

It was originally a PDF document but I don't know how to extract the relevant details as text and then post it here. However I know how to take a snapshot of it and save it as a picture file which I did so and then uploaded it to ImageShack but this forum states that it will not allow me to post a link until I have made 30 posts! So, I used the "Insert Image" option but it resizes it so small that you can no longer read what it says unlike the one uploaded to ImageShack.

[Sprogger]

Hang on a minute... try this:

img843.imageshack.us/img843/8539/code25.gif but you have to put the http etc first!