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    • Hi,  I guess the DCAs have come out of hibernation as my friend has had a Claim Form today.  Honestly I feel like I have addressed this one but she can't find the folder box I gave her to keep all this nonsense in, but then the claim form has no information you could realistically use to find out what its from anyway(JD has a few names under their umbrella and she has had accounts with most of them over the years, some repeatedly as they keep lending to someone with no income.  Its ok at the start when its only a little bit but they rapidly put it up and up until she owes in the high hundreds/low thousands instead of the £150 she is initially given, she always intends to keep it in good standing but there is a massive difference between paying £20 a month and over £100) and the usual poor grammar that should be an embarrassment to any normal legal firm, but I suppose these people have no shame.   Anyway, I assume its the same respond for more time and send off a CPR and CCA?   Name of the Claimant ?   Cabot Financial Date of issue – top right hand corner of the claim form – this in order to establish the time line you need to adhere to. 22/02/2021   Particulars of Claim   What is the claim for – the reason they have issued the claim?  By an Agreement between JD Williams Ltd RE Jacamo & the defendant dated XX ('the agreement') JD Williams Ltd RE Jacamo agreed to issue the Defendant with a credit account.  The Defendant failed to make the minimum payments due.  The Agreement was terminated following the service of a default notice.  The agreement was assigned to the Claimant.  THE CLAIMANT THEREFOR CLAIMS 1.8XX.XX 2. costs   What is the total value of the claim? £8XX.XX    Have you received prior notice of a claim being issued pursuant to paragraph 3 of the PAPDC (Pre Action Protocol) ? No   Have you changed your address since the time at which the debt referred to in the claim was allegedly incurred? Yes   Did you inform the claimant of your change of address? No Is the claim for - a Bank Account (Overdraft) or credit card or loan or catalogue or mobile phone account? Catalogue   When did you enter into the original agreement before or after April 2007 ? After   Do you recall how you entered into the agreement...On line /In branch/By post ? Online   Is the debt showing on your credit reference files (Experian/Equifax /Etc...) ? Yes   Has the claim been issued by the original creditor or was the account assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim. Debt Purchaser   Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment? Possibly, she was(and is) very poor at keeping and responding to correspondence.     Did you receive a Default Notice from the original creditor? Possibly, she was(and is) very poor at keeping and responding to correspondence.   Have you been receiving statutory notices headed “Notice of Sums in Arrears”  or " Notice of Arrears "– at least once a year ? Possibly, she was(and is) very poor at keeping and responding to correspondence.   Why did you cease payments? More than she could afford.     What was the date of your last payment? No Idea as we do not not which account it is for.     Was there a dispute with the original creditor that remains unresolved? No   Did you communicate any financial problems to the original creditor and make any attempt to enter into a debt management plan? Possibly but can't say for sure.    
    • Thank you Andy/Dx   UPDATED Defence, 3 days remaining.   Not sure where to mention invalid PAP. I put it under number 5. Please check if this is good to go.   Defence   The Defendant contends that the particulars of claims are vague and generic in nature. The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any allegation to which a specific response has not been made.   The Claimant has not complied with paragraph 3 of the PAPDC (Pre Action Protocol) – failed to serve a letter of claim pre-claim pursuant to PAPDC changes of the 1st October 2017. It is respectfully requested that the court take this into consideration pursuant to 7.1 PAPDC.   1. I have in the past had financial dealings with Lloyds Banking Group. I do not recall the precise details of the agreement and have sought clarity from the claimant.   2. However, I do not recall ever receiving a Default Notice pursuant to sec 87(1) CCA1974.   3. I do not recall ever receiving this notice pursuant to sec136 of the Law of Property Act 1925.   4. I do not recall ever receiving a letter of assignment from the Lloyds Banking group advising the debt was assigned to the claimant.   5. Claimant served the invalid PAP with no connection to their court claim,   6. On receipt of this claim I sent CPR 31.14 and section 77 request. The claimant failed to provide a valid copy of the agreement and therefore remains in default of said request.   7. It is therefore not accepted with regards to the Defendant owing any monies to the Claimant and the Claimant is put to strict proof to:-   a) show how the Defendant has entered into an agreement; and b) show how the Defendant has reached the amount claimed for; and c) Show or evidence service of a Default Notice/Notice of Sums in Arrears, d) show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim;   By reasons of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief.      
    • no.   i wonder if the OP is entitled to CTAX benefit, thats only available from the relevant council...most on UC can get it..   but your MP is by far the most successful route to sorting these issues we've seen here to work.
    • dx100uk  unclebulgaria67   OP is on UC.   Could the council apply for weekly amounts to be deducted from UC claim ?
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    • I sent in the bailiffs to the BBC. They collected £350. It made me smile.
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    • Hi @BankFodder
      Sorry for only updating you now, but after your guidance with submitting the claim it was pretty straight forward and I didn't want to unnecessarily waste your time. Especially with this guide you wrote here, so many thanks for that
      So I issued the claim on day 15 and they requested more time to respond.
      They took until the last day to respond and denied the claim, unsurprisingly saying my contract was with Packlink and not with them.
      I opted for mediation, and it played out very similarly to other people's experiences.
      In the first call I outlined my case, and I referred to the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 as the reason to why I do in fact have a contract with them. 
      In the second call the mediator came back with an offer of the full amount of the phone and postage £146.93, but not the court costs. I said I was not willing to accept this and the mediator came across as a bit irritated that I would not accept this and said I should be flexible. I insisted that the law was on my side and I was willing to take them to court. The mediator went back to Hermes with what I said.
      In the third call the mediator said that they would offer the full amount. However, he said that Hermes still thought that I should have taken the case against Packlink instead, and that they would try to recover the court costs themselves from Packlink.
      To be fair to them, if Packlink wasn't based in Spain I would've made the claim against them instead. But since they are overseas and the law lets me take action against Hermes directly, it's the best way of trying to recover the money.
      So this is a great win. Thank you so much for your help and all of the resources available on this site. It has helped me so much especially as someone who does not know anything about making money claims.
      Many thanks, stay safe and have a good Christmas!
        • Thanks
    • Hermes and mediation hints. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/428981-hermes-and-mediation-hints/&do=findComment&comment=5080003
      • 1 reply
    • Natwest Bank Transfer Fraud Call HMRC Please help. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/428951-natwest-bank-transfer-fraud-call-hmrc-please-help/&do=findComment&comment=5079786
      • 33 replies

Ltd Company Secured Overdraft & Factoring & Liquidation HELP

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Very long winded, but here go's.


In September 2008, got a call from bank managerstating that the bank insist we fully secure the overdraft (£70,000), or the bank would look to remove the facility. At that time the Ltd co. had a negative balance sheet (£75k), but was trading a profit, and things were looking positive that it could trade through. Although we initially resisted this request, pressure was increased until in November, we either had to concede or close the business. We agreed, but decided to increase the facility to £100k as cash flow was always poor over the festive period (this would give us quite a bit of breathing space, whilst we were restructuring). We agreed to charges over our properties.


Errors by the banks solicitors (their admission), meant the overdraft was not in place until the 21st January!. This delay had caused the return of a fuel payment. The fuel supplier decided to close the account as payment was delayed too long due to the overdraft not being in place. This supplier had given us 7 week payment terms, and our new supplier would only offer 7 days! Given that we were using approx £13k of fuel per week left us paying 2 fuel bills at the same time! and approx £78k out of the cash flow!. We were lucky enough to recieve £50k from the government backed transitional loan fund, but this still left us slap bank up against our new £100k overdraft.


The company continued to re structure to the changing market, increase sales and manage a small profit, however, things began to change in early May 2009.


The factoring company (part of the same bank), were not happy that we had been in a temporary contra trading arrangement with one of our customers. We had told them in October 2008, and we were advised that if we wanted this to become a permanent situation, then we needed to tell them. This temp arrangement had ended in Jan 2009. They bank persued a non offset letter from the our customer, and at first they seemed to be in favour of signing this, then on the 21st May 2009, the factoring company dissapproved the whole ledger of our customer, leaving us with a negative of £110k !. They done this without telling us!. We then had to provide details of critical payments which they would fund until this letter had been signed. We were still able to trade at this point , and in fact, secured new business to the tune of £450k pa which was to start in late June & 1st week in July.


The bank wanted to understand the position of the business better, and visited on the 3rd June, and was also attended by the Ltd Co financial mentor (part of the transitional loan fund agreement). At that meeting we provided cash flow forecasts, which included the newly won business, showing that the cash flow was tight until the end of June, beginning of July, then the cash generated by the new sales, would start having a positive affect on the cash flow, and start creating some headroom.


The financial mentor stressed to the relationship manager (factoring company) that we were being very pro active, and the company outlook was positive.


The bank insisted that we passed over to tham a ledger which was previously outside the agreement due to cantra trading, stating that it would give them more security!


They also requested that we have our accountants project the business P&L, Balance Sheet, and cash flow to include the newly won business.


They agreed to fund critical payments until the figures were made available, or the non offset letter was signed by our customer.


The bank continually pressurised the customer (sometimes 3 to 4 times per day i found out later) to the point that the customer refused. (I found out that our customer sensed that there was something seriously wrong due to the pressure being exerted, and as such , decided to protect their interests).


At this point the bank refused any funding, and as such , we were unable to pay fuel bill, our account was closed. We had to stop trading. Our figures came through from our accountant the following day, showing that we were on line to make a £90k profit, to have a positive balance sheet, be within our overdraft limit, and be paying all bills as they fell due.


To add insult to injury, as the ledger was collected out, it showed a surlpus of around £38k, which we requested be transferred to our business account, to help offset the overdraft. They refused, on the grounds that we were not trading. I advised them that we had not decided what to do with the company and had not appointed a liquidator. This made no difference, they still refused.


We finally appointed a liquidator on the 15th July. Out of the £38k, the factoring bank gave £8k to the liquidator, and kept the rest as "cancellation fees".


We have complained to the bank (recoveries), who could not get a response to the factoring arm as to their actions. We are due to meet with the factoring bank over the next couple of weeks to try and resolve the complaint.


Can anyone give me any advice as to how we stand with all of this mess, what our chances are, and any pointers we need to stress in our defence.


We have been left with liabilities of over £200k due to lease agreements, overdraft facility, and other directors guarantees.





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Hi Mine


Welcome to CAG


The guys will respond shortly, unfortunately I don't have the relevant experience to advise you, but others do.

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