Stef v's Abbey Mortgages

[rascal3103]

Hi All,

 

I decided to try my hand at claiming my ERC from Abbey,

I wrote in, and they ignored me, so i wrote again, and before they even had chance to get the second one I got a reply from the first. Late but never mind.

The reason i duplicated my first was because i had not sent it recorded delivery, so i thought best do it again so i can prove they got it.

 

Anyway, it was a pretty standard prelim letter etc etc. They have provided me with how they have calculated the charges, but not what there costs are, just an explanation as to how they got to the figure.

 

My question is, should i move onto the LBA, entering a paragraph saying thanks for the info, but you still have not provided me with your costs for my early redemption ?

 

Thanks

 

Stefan

[zootscoot]

Sounds the best way to go to me.

 

Best of luck

 

Zoot

[rascal3103]

Hi All,

 

Right, Abbey national have decided that they will just ignore me.

I am going to move onto the MCOL section, but I am a little apprehensice about this. I have done one for my bank for charges, but this is a little different.

 

would anybody be prepared to be my buddy on this so I know what I am doing.

 

also, should this be under the Abbey section, please move it mods if its in the wrong place

 

Thanks

[zootscoot]

Hi rascal,

 

You are in the right place! We are all with you in spirit. You might want to keep an eye on the Abbey forums to see what their normal practice is with defending other claims.

 

Best oof luck

 

Zoot

[rascal3103]

Hi All,

 

Ok, I got a reply from Abbey today, which is about right as I was about to submit my MCOL today. I was basically wondering if somebody could read through it for me. Thay have answered why they think its a fair cost to charge me, but not exactly what their costs are. Should I still go ahead. I am the bull at a gate person so i will give it a go, but I just wanted a little reasurrance that this is just a delay/put off tactic.

 

Dear Mr Rascal,

Thanks for your letter dated 4th September 2006, which has been referred to the Customer Relations Department here in Teeside in accordance with the Company's complaints procedure.

You've received our letter telling you how the Early Repayment Charge (ERC) was worked out when you closed your account, but this doesn't fully answer your query. You've asked Abbey to show you the true costs incurred as a result of you closing your mortgage early. You've said that it's an implied term of the contract that Abbey would conduct itself lawfully and in a manner that complies with UK law and you've enclosed an excerpt from the office of fair trading website. (well done this woman is capable of reading and re-producing my letter)

I see that you've copied in a solicitor on your complaint (maybe she can't, I have not copied a solicitor and have no mention of this in any of the three letters I have sent - barmy) and I just want to let you know that because Abbey's part of the Financial Ombudsman Service (FOS) we won't pay any costs that your solicitor or a financial advisor bills you for. (erm, ok thanks) This is because under the FOS we agree to look at your complaint fairly and free of charge.

I've checked the mortgage account and I can see that the mortgage started on 14th November 2001 on a tracker rate and charges applied if your account was closed within 3 years from completion. The account closed on 13 January 2004 and an ERC of £1578.18 was incurred. This was in line with the mortgage offer, which I've enclosed a copy of for your information.

Abbey expect our borrowers and the solicitors acting on their behalf to read carefully all of the terms and conditions of the offer, which you committed yourself to on completion of the mortgage.

I'd like to explain how we fund these special rates and why we charge you an ERC if you repay your loan or pay off a lump sum in excess of the 10% allowance before the product end date.

When we offer special products, Abbey usually funds these by borrowing funds on the financial markets at certain rates. A date is then agreed for Abbey to repay these funds back which is usually the date the special product ends. If a customer pays the loan off sooner than expected, we could find that the interest we're being charged is higher than the returns we can make on the money the customer has repaid.( surely if they were paying more money than they were charging me it wouldnt be a sound investment anyway, and surely if I have paid the whole sum back, the £1500 they have sought to charge me in not material in the large investments they would make.) Also if funds are repaid early, we need to find somewhere to invest this money until we're due to repay it which can mean a further cost to ourselves. The ERC ensures we dont make a loss when a customer decides to come out of a product early or pay a lump sum off their mortgage when its on a special rate.

Abbey considers that its ERC's are fair as they've been calculated so that we don't make a loss should a customer decide to repay their mortgage or pay off a lump sum before the date we agreed.

The ERC has therfore been correctly charged in line with the terms and conditions, so i'm sorry i can't agree to refund this. I appreciate that time you have taken to tell us how you feel about the charges and understand that you may remain unhappy.

The next two paragraphs explain what you need to do next if you want to take the matter further.

Please be assured i've carried out a full investigation for you and I hope you feel i've offered a fair response to all of the issues you've raised. I'll keep your file open for the next 8 weeks and if i dont hear from you within that time (oh you will my dear) i'll assume that everything is resolved and will close your file.

If you remain dissatisfied though, the leaflet you'll find with this letter explains your rights and how to take your complaint further with Abbey. The leaflet also explains your ultimate right to refer your complaint to the Financial Ombudsman Service.

Yours sincerely

Christine Anne Taylor.

What do you reckon guys (and gals), is it me or has she just skirted around the issue and tried to bamboosal me with crap

 

should I go the MCOL route, cause I feel they are just trying to fob me off with excuses. Also, am I ok to do the claim to the addressthey replied from, and can i do it care of christine. (just to prove a point)

 

regards

 

Rascal

[zootscoot]

Hi Rascal,

 

How was your ERC calculated eg was it a set fee in the first year of redemption and reduced for the second and third as oppose to a % of the amount owing? As it is a round figure I'm guessing it was a set fee.

 

I think their argument is probably covered by s.4 UCTA ie they can not ask you to indemnify their loss on a commercial risk they have freely undertaken. It is not up to you how they chose to invest the money. They also have not explained how they come up with the figure of 1,500.

 

I think you should go straight to mcol. There is little point in arguing over the legalities at this stage it only plays into their hands of drawing the process out longer. Save the legal arguments for court if it comes to that and hold your cards close to your chest.

 

best of luck

 

Zoot

[paddym]

rascal yes they have just skirted around the issues you raised but most importantly they havent given you a breakdown of the costs they were put too take zoots advice shes our resident ERC expert shes never far wrong !

[rascal3103]

Ok guys will do. MCOL tonight.

I go on hols tomorrow night so by the time i get back a might have a big fat cheque on my door mat - me thinks not....!!

i will keep you all informed

 

Thanks for the support

[ukaviator]

Hi Team

 

You must go for it all. I saw an interesting thing in Lloydstsb yesterday.

They are offering new Mortgages with NO REDEMPTION FEE. What does that tell you? They made that point well in their advertising.The bank knows whats coming next is my opinion.

 

Good luck

 

Uk...

[Joons2]

I think their argument is probably covered by s.4 UCTA ie they can not ask you to indemnify their loss on a commercial risk they have freely undertaken.

 

Zoot

 

Zoot,

 

 

I think it is important to clarify that this is not entirely correct as you can do this provided the contract term satisfies the requirement of reasonableness.

[zootscoot]

I know that, but if you see the prelim letter in my signature you will see how to counter such an argument.

[Joons2]

Sorry. I didn't get that from your statement above and thought that others might interpret your statement as an absolute.

 

No offence meant.

[rascal3103]

Hi Guys,

 

I will hit them with a money claim. I have your wording Zootscoot that you pm'd me a few days ago. I will keep you upto speed guys when i get a response.

 

Regards

 

Stefan

[ukaviator]

Hi Rascal

 

If it's any help, you will have the press and most of this site coming to back you up. We are all your buddies. You don't need to tell me exactly,but is it over £5000?..

 

Good luck

 

Ukaviator

[rascal3103]

Hi,

 

No its £1578.18 + interest from 2004 + costs.

 

Thanks for the support.

 

I am hoping that because it is a relativly small amount compared to some i just slip by and get an offer asap, which I will of course refuse until i get the lot.

[zootscoot]

Not sure Abbey work that way.

 

Their latest tact is to threaten to multi-track and tell you they have already run up 1500 of legal costs... pure intimidation. Stick to your guns but be prepared for a fight.

 

All the best

 

Zoot

[tamadus]

I sent a prelim letter on 14 september and got exactly the same reply today, (right on the 14 days I gave them) I'm going to get an LBA off to them this weekend then its MCOL for me in 2 weeks. Unless of course zoot or anybody else sees a good reason to just issue a claim now.:o

[zootscoot]

No 28 days notice in writing is required before bringing any action.

[rascal3103]

well my MCOL will be done tonight, then I am off on my jollies.

We will see in 14 days if they acknowledge, sure they will, then drag out a defense

[rascal3103]

Ok guys MCOL done, dont know if the mods need it but the claim number is 6QZ68628. Will keep you upto speed.

 

of on my jolliberries so see you all soon, and thanks for the support guys. I would not have the "nuts" to do this on my own.

 

Stef

[tamadus]

rascal before you go PM a mod with claim details so they can mov eit into litigation

[paddym]

enjoy your break !

[rascal3103]

ok, been served, they have until the 21st to acknowledge. lets just wait and see i suppose. 12 days and counting.

[rascal3103]

Hi Guys,

 

Well they have until Friday to acknowledge, nothing so far, I hope they are not going to play that "oh we have not received it" game when I ask for a judgement. Or they may play that Yorkshire Bank game and acknowledge on the last day at the last minute.

 

I hope i get a judgement, even though I know they will plead ignorance, it would still be nice to think of the baillifs turning up on their door step.

[zootscoot]

Standby for the defence along with a counter claim for costs!