Threats & Blatant lies at Employment Tribunal

[greendollar]

Hi ,

I have been waiting over 2 yrs to try and get my ex-employers into a Tribunal . They have managed to get 5 postponements and when they did show up the Tribunal was abandoned because they failed to comply with an Order regarding the bundle.

 

The bundle they produced was 20 pages more than was ordered and NONE of our documents were present (witness statements ect ).

 

The bundle was delivered on the Fri before the Tribunal on the Monday .

This left us no option but to request they be put in on the day .

The judge was not happy with their conduct regarding the size of the bundle , only handing it over 3 days before the tribunal and ommitting all our documents .

He then abandoned the Tribunal .

 

My ex-employers then attempted to gain an Order for Costs , a Deposit Order and also a Wasted Costs Order by blaming us for the abandoned Tribunal stating that we were acting vexatiously , unreasonably and disrutively . (they have attempted to get an Order for Costs numerous times but the judge has so far refused all such requests )

 

They state that we attempted to ambush them at the Tribunal by secretly trying to get new evidence put into the bundle by stealth .

 

We can prove that they have had all our documents for well over a year and a half .

 

I am aware that solicitors use underhand tactics when dealing with ET claims but to me this is blatantly lying to the judge in an attempt to get an Order for Costs .

 

The judge has refused this latest request but anyone thinking about making an ET claim should be aware that your ex-employer and their solicitors will try anything to get that Order for Costs .

[honeybee13]

Hello again. This is disgraceful behaviour, isn't it? It's my understanding from the forum that a claimant has to be seriously vexatious and unco-operative to have any costs awarded against them.

 

We see this scenario time after time on the forum and you do wonder how much some of these lawyers know about the ET rules, or if they just clutch at straws.

 

Has this just happened to you, greendollar?

 

My best, HB

[papasmurf1cx]

Hi............. Bas***d's................... Are you doing this yourself or have you solicitors? If you are doing it yourself why not turn the tables and ask for the same costs order for them being "vexatiously , unreasonably and disrutively" Write to the ET and detail the evidence as to why they are such. If you have a detailed time schedule of how much time and effort has gone into the case ask for the costs to date for XX number of hours owrked on the case and , wasted hours preparing for the abandoned hearing at the rate that Tribunal's award for litigants in person.

[greendollar]

Hi HB ,

 

I was dismissed for gross misconduct Aug 2008 .

 

I had a run in with an ex-fitter promoted to Ops Manager when the works closed .

It was initially accused with damaging a colleagues car (graffitti written on car)which this manager assumed I was responsible for .

Obviously I wasn't happy about being accused and we had heated words about the incident . (Several weeks after my dismissal another colleague was charged under the disciplinary procedures for the damage after a handwriting expert was consulted).

 

I was then warned to watch my back as the manager took offence to the way I had spoken to him .

 

Within a week I was charged on a H&S issue that would normally be dealt with by means of a "quiet word " or repeat offenders would get a written warning .

 

At my disciplinary I was summarily dismissed even they I had a clean safety record and been employed by them for 6 yrs .

 

I appealed the decision on the basis that my treatment was inconsistant with other colleagues who had worse safety records but had received verbal and written warnings for the same offence .(2 have been kind enough to attend the tribunal as witnesses )

 

The manager holding the appeal implied that he could only help if I held my hands up and admitted the offence . I foolishly admitted to part of the offence , trusting him to help me out and get back to work .

 

The dismissal was upheld .

 

I was then handed a roster from a colleague which stated that due to my dismissal they had to increase their hours to cover the work I would normally do ........this amended roster was dated the day before my disciiplinary ........the decision to dismiss was obviously taken before my disciplinary had even taken place .

 

I then lodged my claim for unfair dismissal with the ET stating that my treatment was harsher than fellow colleagues had received and that my disciplinary was severely compromised by the amended works roster .

 

My claim was accepted in Nov 2008 . It went to ACAS but my employer refused to discuss the matter with them .

 

Since then all thats happened is numerous threats of costs and anytime a date is set for Tribunal they request postponements due to the unavailability of their witnesses .

 

The only time we have managed to get them to the tribunal it was abandoned .

 

They have seriously pi$$ed off 2 judges but still manage to avoid attending the tribunal and continue to lie and threaten .

 

I'm not going away though , the more they stall only gives me more time to research employment law and tribunals and now realise that their conduct is pretty much the norm when it comes to E/T claims .

What baffles me is why are they allowed to get away with it .

[papasmurf1cx]

Hi Greendollar..... we will all try and assist as much as we can. What are you going to do next?

[greendollar]

Hi papasmurf ,

 

Thank you for your offer of help , I (hopefully) have everthing in hand .

 

The bundle issue has now been resolved after a CMD where they were ordered to put all the documents we required in . ( although the they did , even after the Order was made try to leave them out again ,LOL).....its now another waiting game , it seems to take about 4 months to reschedule for another tribunal .......we have been ready for over a year and a half .

 

I would just like to make people aware of just how sneaky and underhand these so called professionals can be .

 

I was told by my ex-employers regional manager at the last tribunal that they were not going to back down , no substancial offer to settle would be forthcoming and that they were going to get an Order for Costs (£15'000) to serve as a lesson to any other employees not to try and take them to tribunal again .

This is after they offered me £1000 not to turn up .

 

regards Greendollar

[honeybee13]

Hi greendollar. I didn't know all of your story until you just repeated it on the forum, I suspect. I guess most of it went on before I became a cagger, so thank you for telling us again. I really despair of the tactics respondents will stoop to and it's a shame that ETs aren't tougher with them.

 

I admire you for persisting and I hope you nail the errr.. people.

 

My best, HB

[papasmurf1cx]

My wife and I got into the court room at the beginning of the year on a grievance that took 3 years from start to finish. Even at the end they played hard ball. Expect at some point that they will try and settle but they will want a compromise agreement to gag you.

 

Offering a threat and a bribe at the same time they are running really scared I can assure you. When I was in work we used to say that if a solicitor attacked you on procedure then the evidence was really good and tight. Hope that applies to you.

 

Keep us posted, we are all really interested in your fight as many of us have had fights of our own (in fact we are still in the ET taking my wife's union to task!!)

[papasmurf1cx]

"errr..... people" surely you mean something much stronger HB ?

[honeybee13]

Yes, but it might be edited. I'm sure you and greendollar get my drift. Plus see my signature......

 

HB

[greendollar]

Thanks papasmurf ,

 

Thats why I love these forums , apart from being able to vent my frustration there is so much information available from other peoples experiences .

 

In my reply to their last Order for Costs I complained about their lies regarding evidence and also pointed out that at no time had my employer attempted to address the merits of my claim and all they had done was attack on procedure.

There are other points to my claim such as being refused a witness when I requested one and the reporting manager also holding the investigation that backs up my claim that the dismissal was unfair .

My ex-employers fully admit that they have not followed procedure but claim they have done the minimum required by law to dismiss me .

 

I have also found out that their attempt at gaining that Order by leaving all our documents from the bundle is yet another tactic many solicitors use to hoodwink the judges .

 

Cheers papasmurf

[honeybee13]

So on the one hand they attack you on procedure and on the other, they admit that they haven't followed it? That's even-handed then .

 

HB x

[greendollar]

Hi HB,

 

yes , they are a joke , no wonder why they are so reluctant to attend a tribunal , with hindsight , it seems the total hash they made when they did turn up was no mistake , I'm pretty sure they went looking to get it abandoned...........