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Charge Certificate / Enforcement Cancelled by TEC. Weeks later still no answer from Council

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Hi

 

How long do the local Council have, to decide whether to issue a new NTO, or to drop the PCN, after the TEC in Northampton C.C. has granted a Statutory Out of time application, cancelling the charge certificate ?

 

I applied and was granted a pair of Out of Times, because the PCNs and NTOs were never served to me or they were sending them to an old address. The alleged contraventions were from a couple of years ago, and in the intervening time not a peep was heard from the council, who were quite happy to renew parking permit, take council tax, etc. (i.e. they knew my address, but I did not know these 2 penalties existed). I only learnt about the offences when contacted by a Bailiff over 2 years later.

 

The first penalty, the TEC granted the Out of Time, and then the council issued me within 2 weeks with an NTO, giving 6 weeks to pay £100,00.

 

The second Out of Time & Statutory declaration, was also granted by the TEC in the same week, but I have not received an NTO from the Council. I have called them a couple of times and they just say its 'on hold'. They won't be drawn on whether they will drop it, or when they will make their decision. This is over 6 weeks since the TEC granted my Out of Time.

 

So, essentially, how long do the Council have to just 'sit' on the 2nd parking fine? Don't they have a duty to make up their mind in a certain timeframe?

 

Thanks for your advice,

regards,

-- Student 7

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I am not sure if they are obliged to re-issue within a certain time frame, but I can tell you that if you do receive them, you should respond with a representation that due to the unreasonable time since the PCNs were issued, you are unable to submit a meaningful defence as you can no longer recall events on the day. In the event that they reject this, you should refer the case to adjudication and it will almost certainly be upheld on that basis.

 

You cannot effectively defend something which happened years ago, and there are prior cases which support this - although I can't cite specific examples.

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Thank you, I will certainly consider doing so.

 

It's just that the TEC letter from Northampton County Court states:

This order does not cancel the original Penalty Charge Notice. The Local Authority may well take further action on it. The Local Authority should inform you as soon as possible if it intends to do so.

 

For one, they did. For the other, they have not.

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"as soon as possible" is ambiguous. It may not be possible now, for some reason, but may become so later on. It doesn't help much.

 

Have you asked them exactly why the case is on hold? If not, I would suggest phoning them and asking.

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"as soon as possible" is ambiguous

That is a very good point, and I called them (the council) and asked them.

They looked into it and said they didn't receive the order from the TEC (Northampton CC) and are still waiting for it.

I have the letter from the TEC in front of me, it's dated end July.... :x

 

The council will "chase it up".

I'm going to appeal it anyway, given that the alleged contravention is without merit, is over 3 years old now, and they don't have any photographic evidence to support it.

 

BTW since the date of the contravention the council came round and changed the road markings on the corners of all roads (about 18 months ago), and changed all the parking roadsigns. So I doubt they were in conformity with the regulation at the date of the alleged contravention.

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Don't appeal it now - wait until (or should I say if) you get an NTO. The Council presumably has the case on hold at the bailiff stage - it should not. It has been ordered to revoke the bailiff warrant and if the message hasn't got through to them, they must sort it out. Otherwise it could come off hold and there'll be more complications.

 

Hopefully they will do what they need to and you can take your appeal from there. Too old to deal with will be your line of defence.

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Hi.

 

So I received the 2nd NTO finally, the NTO for the 2nd offence (caught remotely by a traffic cam. Offence is allegedly parked with 1 or 2 wheels on the footway; actually it was an entry/exit access driveway).

 

I also challenged the 1st NTO, for the parking in a Pay & Display bay without displaying a valid ticket. I challenged it online at the LBH&F asking them to strike it out, due to the following:

 

 

  • The alleged contravention did not occur: essentially I asserted that a
    valid P&D ticket was displayed but that the CEO might have failed to see it correctly.

 

  • The unreasonable time elapsed (3 years) since the alleged incident (2007) and the NTO,

 

  • That the PCNs being issued at that time do not comply with the instructions of section 66 (3) of the RTA 1991, and thus weren't legally enforceable. (As confirmed by Macarthur v. Bury Council).

So what do you reckon?

Edited by Student7

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So, despite the above Challenge, it was rejected in a

Notice of Rejection of Representations

Basically re-iterating that the P&D ticket ref. ###### on my vehicle VRM ###### expired at time 11:04 and that the PCN was issued at 11:16 ; and we have all the P.A. notes here; and the CEO completed the process of issuing the PCN.

(They have no photographic evidence, BTW);

and that "it is an offence to remain parked after expiry of paid period"

 

The Parking Control Officer also goes on to dismiss my point on the validity of the PCNs (their wording), saying:

"The Council is satisfied that the PCN issued on this date was fully compliante with the relevant legislation"

 

and offers (on this occasion only) a £50 discount window for the first 14 days; or appeal within 28 days to the Adjudicator (PATAS)

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Appeal to the adjudicator. They will probably pull out at some point. Make the basis of your appeal the fact that these are 3 years old and it is impossible to compile a reasonable case for or against. My advice would be to drop this business about unenforceable PCNs, unless you have something concrete. It makes you look like you know your stuff which (strangely) won't go in your favour if the basis of your case is that you can't recall what happened so long ago.

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I am sure there are plenty of cases about old PCNs.

Case Number 00/PO0129 goes back to NPAS and the 1991 RTA. there will plenty more.

3 years is taking the mickey.

see Davis v Kensington and Chelsea (1970198981)

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