Asda parking ticket - Town & City Parking

[julian1968]

Hello

 

I have received a parking ticket for parking in a disabled bay at Asda (I dont ever remember doing this)

 

I ignored the fine as I thought it may not be enforcable

 

I have nor received a Solicitors letter (AA Hutton LLP) demanding an increased payment

 

I am of mind to ask them to prove it was my vehicle (photographs etc)

 

But just wondering how I stand in general, if it was me

 

Thanks

[postggj]

A disabled bay has no legal authority on private land and has no bearing on the dda

 

have you a photo of one of there signs in the car park

 

take one on your mobile

[julian1968]

Thanks, I can take a pic of sign tomorrow

 

What will I be looking for on this

[dx100uk]

toilet paper

 

totally ignore them.

 

dx

[julian1968]

Thanks for the quick replies guys

 

It is in the bin now

[Al27]

Asda's signs are terrible. They threaten 'Civil Penalty Notices,' which is

 

a) fraud

 

b) threatening something which does not exist

 

c) an clear statement that they are unenforceable contractual penalties

[crem]

Asda's signs are terrible. They threaten 'Civil Penalty Notices,' which is

 

a) fraud

 

b) threatening something which does not exist

 

c) an clear statement that they are unenforceable contractual penalties

 

Same wording as at the Galleries shopping centre in Washington. That sentence is on the first line, hence my inability to even be able to bring myself to read the rest of the rubbish below it!

[ldkquestion]

Here is a pic of the ASDA sign

i40.tinypic.com/e7cv87.jpg

[DBC]

Town and City Parking are equally guilty over that sign.

[crem]

So apart from Asda believing they can issue a non-existant document called a "civil penalty notice", they now expect customers to study the football league fixture list before going shopping!

[callumsgran]

So apart from Asda believing they can issue a non-existant document called a "civil penalty notice", they now expect customers to study the football league fixture list before going shopping!

lmao

[BigAndy]

I recently got a PCN from Town & City Parking Ltd for parking in a disabled bay at The Metro Centre in Gateshead ....

 

As a solicitor, i am fully aware of the private parking companies [problem] and always get my clients out of parking tickets from such companies, I wrote them a nice letter, and a few days later i got a reply saying "Thank you for your recent communication, we note the points raised and would like to inform you that we have cancelled your parking charge"

 

So.. as it may be beneficial to you lot.. i will copy and paste the letter that i sent to them... feel free to use bits of it to create your own letter to demolish these ******s...

 

 

 

Dear Sir / Madam,

I am writing to you in form of appeal about the above mentioned parking charge notice. I am writing on behalf of the driver of the vehicle at the time of the alleged incident.

 

After conducting comprehensive research with regards to this matter, I would like to challenge various aspects of the grounds and compliance in which this parking charge notice has been issued. Before making further contact with myself or taking further civil enforcement actions against the driver, I demand that every point within this letter of appeal is answered appropriately, with any supporting evidence supplied.

 

As I understand from looking at the British Parking Associations directory of members, Town & City Parking Ltd, who operate the parking enforcement at The Metro Centre, are registered with the British Parking Associations “Approved Operator Scheme”. I have looked into the BPA’s “Professional Code of Practice” and have found several contradictions with the operational procedures of Town & City Parking Ltd at The Metro Centre.

 

BPA Professional Code of Practice – Chapter B5 Section 1 Part N (B5.1N)

“All methods by which drivers may challenge the parking ticket, including at least a phone number for a human operator”

 

I now refer to the parking ticket as issued by Town & City Parking Ltd, which only states;

 

“Credit/Debit card payments can be made by calling 0845 230 3082 (24 HOUR AUTOMATED SERVICE)”

 

This paragraph was taken from the “PAYMENT INSTRUCTION” section of the ticket, and I confirm that there is no phone number under the “APPEAL” section of the ticket, which is a clear contradiction to Chapter B5 Section 1 Part N of the BPA’s professional code of practice.

 

BPA Professional Code of Practice – General Conditions Section 15 Part 4 (15.4)

“You must not use terms which imply that you are acting under statutory authority; this will include terms such as “fine”, “penalty” or “penalty charge notice”

 

I would like to refer you to the signs that are erected in various locations throughout the Metro Centre, which has the words “Penalty” and “Penalty Notice” on them.

 

BPA Professional Code of Practice – Chapter A8 – Signs & Information

In order to carry out parking enforcement by means of issuing a parking charge notice, the warning signs, which acts as a binding contractual agreement between the driver of the vehicle and Town and City Parking Ltd on behalf of The Metro Centre, must include the following information;

 

“Signs must show, in plain and intelligible language, all the terms on which an operator may wish to rely. Signs must be placed at the entrance to the site, and there must be enough signs in other locations throughout the site so that drivers are given the chance to be aware of the risk involved at the time of parking or leaving the vehicle. They must include the following information;

 

A. That the land is private property and is managed by the operator

B. That if a vehicle is parked without authorisation, or has breached any parking conditions that apply, parking control and enforcement action may take place at any time or during the hours shown

C. The types of parking control that may be used – for example, immobilisation, removal, the issue of parking ticket, etc

D. The standard fees for parking payable for each day or part-day

E. The parking charges that will apply if the driver is in breach of their parking contract

F. Any particular terms or conditions that are unusual and a driver should be aware of

G. Information about whether there are any concessions for disabled persons (blue badge) holders

H. That is a parking ticket is not paid, vehicle keeper details will be requested from the DVLA

I. The registered company name of the operator, if the operator is using a trading name other than its registered company name, a geographical address where documents can be served

J. A landline number for general enquiries”

 

As far as I am aware, parts A, B, F, G and H have been breached by the signs that are currently displayed at The Metro Centre.

I confirm that the driver was NOT aware of any terms and conditions or contractual agreements that were in place, due to the signs not being appropriate that of a legally binding contract; therefore the driver has not breached any contract and will not pay your parking charge notice.

 

BPA Professional Code of Practice – Chapter B7 Part 1 (B7.1)

This section states that photographs must be taken of the vehicle that is parked within breach of the car parks regulations. The section states that photographs should include an automatic date & time stamp.

 

I have performed a Google search for the companies telephone number in order to speak to a human operator (as this was not stated on the ticket) – The driver spoke with the operator (13/09/2010 at 09.28) and requested a copy of these photographs, The driver was told that as the ticket was issued two days ago, therefore head office does not have access to them yet as they would need to wait until they are downloaded from the operator.

 

I would also like to point you to Chapter B2 part 3 of the BPA’s professional code of practice which states that “You must do a thorough external visual check” - A thorough external check should obviously include the windscreen and front side windows of the vehicle. Please accept this letter as request for a copy of these photographs, which should be sent to the above address of my self, alternatively they may be emailed to

 

 

 

 

 

BPA Professional Code of Practice – Chapter B4 Section 5 (B4.5)

“You may ticket vehicles only where there are visible, clear and legible signs and you must keep record of where all site signs are. Do not let signs be blocked from view. Signs must be easy to see and read”

 

I now refer to the signs that were erected within the location of issue (Yellow multi-story car park level 3) – Unless you get out of the vehicle and then look directly above you would you see these warning signs, which were also rather difficult to read. The characteristic of this sign does not imply that the details include any warnings or important information with regards to parking restrictions or contracts, and can simply be mistaken for some form of commercial advertisement.

 

BPA Professional Code of Practice – Chapter B4 Section 1 (B4.1)

“You may take parking control & enforcement when the contract entitles you to”

“Contract terms must be included on the sign”

 

 

 

I note that the parking charge notice states the following Company details;

 

Town and City Parking Ltd

18 King Street

Perth

PH2 8JA

Company No: SC138255

 

However from looking at the Companies House registrar, your company registration details are;

 

Town and City Parking Ltd

8 Charlotte Street

Perth

PH1 5LL

Company No: SC138255

 

I believe that a formal invoice (PCN) for an alleged breach of contract should state accurate registered company details, which is another concern of mine. (See attached)

 

I hereby formally demand that you provide me the following information within 7 days from the date of this letter, should a response not be received within 7 days, this parking charge notice will be disregarded and the assumption will be made that this parking charge notice has been cancelled.

 

· Please provide me with a copy the contract that has been breached

· Please provide me with evidence that the contract has been breached

· Please provide me with evidence that the driver of the vehicle agreed to the contract

· Please provide me with evidence of who has breached the contract –I understand that you may request details of the KEEPER of the vehicle of the time of incident, however the keeper was not the driver therefore your enforcement actions will need to be taken up with the driver of the vehicle at the time.

 

Thank you for your time, I look forward to hearing from you soon.

[postggj]

Welcome to cag bigandy

 

well impressed

[Bernie_the_Bolt]

BigAndy,

 

With your lawyer's hat on, do you have a view as to whether the registered keeper of the vehicle could be prejudiced at County Court if they had ignored correspondence from the PPC?

What answer can the RK give to the question "Who was driving the car at the time?" Is "It could have been one of a number of people but I cannot recall who and I don't make or keep records" just a red rag to a bull?

 

Many thanks

[BigAndy]

Why don't YOU ask THEM who was there driver of the vehicle... instead of THEM asking YOU?

 

Don't communicate with the debt collection agency that are acting on behalf of Town and City Parking, and take my word when i say they will NOT take court action.

 

What i would strongly advise you to do is (and feel free to use my letter above)... inform Town & City Parking Ltd that as the grounds on which the ticket has been issued is not in accordance with the British Parking Associations code of practice...

 

The BPA is the only accredited trade association for the DVLA... and in order to obtain details from the DVLA they must confirm and agree that their signs are fully compliant with the BPA's code of practice... Using the word "penalty" is enough to be a breach of their code of practice; therefore they have improperly obtained your vehicle license details and actually lied to the DVLA.

Trust me and send these cowboys a letter of similar content to mine... sit back and wait for your letter confirming that this PCN has been cancelled.

 

 

TIP: Say you are acting on behalf of the driver, don't admit to being the driver.

 

[BigAndy]

Oh and on another note... I'm pretty sure that any bailiff company collecting unpaid parking charge notices using data from the DVLA must also be a member of the British Parking Association (A standard member.. not a member of their approved operators scheme).

 

Might be worth dropping that in somewhere too.... as AA Hutton LLP are not members

[Al27]

BigAndy,

 

With your lawyer's hat on, do you have a view as to whether the registered keeper of the vehicle could be prejudiced at County Court if they had ignored correspondence from the PPC?

What answer can the RK give to the question "Who was driving the car at the time?" Is "It could have been one of a number of people but I cannot recall who and I don't make or keep records" just a red rag to a bull?

 

Many thanks

 

Hi Bernie

 

I'm a firm believer that the cold, hard facts of the case cannot alter regardless of the communication, or lack of, by either party.

 

A judge will have a hard time preventing obvious prejudice based on this. It is a contractual matter after all.

 

True, judge like to flower up the case in their summing up and I have seen the question asked directly. The answer "There is widespread advice on the internet that ignoring any correspondence is advisable" satisfied that judge.

 

Regarding the driver identity, as long as you can prove you weren't the driver, all bets are off. Balance of probabilities is pretty one sided when the keeper has proof he was holiday at the time.

[Michael Browne]

Oh and on another note... I'm pretty sure that any bailiff company collecting unpaid parking charge notices using data from the DVLA must also be a member of the British Parking Association (A standard member.. not a member of their approved operators scheme).

 

Might be worth dropping that in somewhere too.... as AA Hutton LLP are not members

 

Do you mean debt colectors not bailiff company, since bailiffs would only become involved once a PPC had won a county court case and obtained a CCJ, which then subsequently wasn't paid.

 

Even then I'm not sure a DCA would need to be or indeed could be a member of the BPA. Do you have some evidenceof this?

[lamma]

PPC can only find out who the Registered Keeper was at the time (by payping the dVLA or as now happens using car sales data). keeper and RK are not the same. Nice letter but BPA CoP doesn't mean much to the PPC.

Send the same ltter to the BPA to see how their 'points system' works when AOS members fail to follow to CoP. they may be sensitive to this at the moment as they are are running their 'independent appeal' trail.

[diskmandave]

A disabled bay has no legal authority on private land and has no bearing on the dda

 

It's my belief that restricting disabled bays to Blue Badge holders on private land is in fact

descriminating against disabled people without a Blue Badge. The business owner has a duty

to provide facilities for all disabled people equally. /2p

 

But agree, otherwise, it's just pretty looking paint in the tarmac with a picture of a chair.

[seftonview]

It's my belief that restricting disabled bays to Blue Badge holders on private land is in fact

descriminating against disabled people without a Blue Badge. The business owner has a duty

to provide facilities for all disabled people equally. /2p.

 

No he doesn't; a service provider can quite legitimately and lawfully treat some disabled people more favourably than others, should he chose to. What he cannot do, is treat disabled less favourably. That is to say, he can raise the bar, but not lower it.

 

There is of course an anticipatory reasonable adjustment duty, which is quite a seperate concept.

 

SV

[diskmandave]

No he doesn't; a service provider can quite legitimately and lawfully treat some disabled people more favourably than others, should he chose to. What he cannot do, is treat disabled less favourably. That is to say, he can raise the bar, but not lower it.

 

And those he chooses to treat less favourably who are indeed disabled can say that the bar has been lowered for them... And thus are discriminated against..

[Al27]

The only practical way would be to have bays for different disabilities and the proportion of them being related to the amount of that disability in the general population.

[Jamberson]

No he doesn't; a service provider can quite legitimately and lawfully treat some disabled people more favourably than others, should he chose to. What he cannot do, is treat disabled less favourably. That is to say, he can raise the bar, but not lower it.

 

There is of course an anticipatory reasonable adjustment duty, which is quite a seperate concept.

 

SV

 

I don't agree that it's seperate. I see the provision of disabled bays which are invariably close to the store entrance as an attempt to meet reasonable adjustment. Without them, there is no adjustment for disabled drivers needing to get from car to store. That being the case, then barring some disabled people because they do not hold a BB undoes that reasonable adjustment.

[BigAndy]

A lot of PPC's are using the terms "bailiff" and "debt recovery enforcement officers" in their threatening letters, but never actually reach this stage.

 

My point is..

 

You can only legally obtain drivers details from the DVLA if you are an approved operator and the ticket has been issued under the ATA's (British Parking Association) code of practice...

 

Using the term "penalty" is a breach in itself of the BPA's code of practice, therefore the PCN has been issued in breach of their code of practice.