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    • DX,   I've just noticed something, if you look at the uploaded documents relating to the CCA #6   You see the 2nd and 3rd page are contracts the first one is a blank contract the 2nd one is a digitally signed contract for Very. I can only assume the originally creditor sent the contracts digitally to the DCA and it looks like one of them has either been printed out as a blank page or they have removed the information from 2nd contract and made it look like 2 seperate contracts?   It looks like they only have information relating to Very and not Littlewoods? surley a none signed contract with no name detailing no amount of credit is not legally binding in court?   It looks like if it gets to court they'll go for the Very account but not have a case to argue the Littlewoods one?   Shop direct own both companies so assuming regardless of one signed contract for one company name would still need a seperate contract for another? and one signed contract doesn't work for both?   If this does go to court at what point do I ask for the hearing to be done local to me?
    • For Chrissake simeon!!!   Of course you cannot find para 18(d) that I referred to in #120!!!  That is because - if you had bothered to read #120 post correctly - you would have seen that para 18(d) is in FTMDave's post #105.   One of the improvements that FTMDave had made in #105 to my earlier draft was to replace my paras 13 and 14 with a single combined para 13.  This reduced the total number of paragraphs by one.  That was a good thing to do.   YOU in #121 then reverted to my earlier draft, thus wrongly reinstating para 14 from my draft which FTMDave had removed .  This meant that the para 18(d) that I referred to in #120 had become 19(d) in your version in #121!!!    So when I referred in #120 to FTMDave's draft in #105 and to para 18(d), I was referring to para 18(d) in #105, and not to any draft that I produced days earlier or that anyone else had produced.   And then, now that the para 18(d) confusion that YOU have created is sorted out, you must surely understand my references to para 19 after para 18(d), and to adding a new paragraph 20   Do you understand now?  (You must stop reverting to ealier draft versions and stick with the latest - otherwise it becomes incredibly confusing for all of us and you won't get this counterclaim completed in time!!!)   ========================================================================   All I can really advise you to do now is to read FTMDave's suggestions in #131, and follow them!   (You might find it helpful if you read again all our posts from #120 onwards to help you understand FTMDave's advice.)   You need to sort out your attachments (or exhibits if you prefer).  You've got them in front of you - we haven't - and you understand them better than we do.  Just make sure they are numbered and ordered correctly and are cross-referenced correctly to the Particulars of counterclaim.   Add in interest as per FTMDave's instructions.   And that is it.  From here it's not rocket science, it's just common sense.  If you don't understand by now we can't help.  You just need to polish it off.    
    • Hi there. To answer your questions. The Assessment of the car I got was by the DVSA. The 3 Dangerous faults. Seatbelt webbing significantly weakened offside front. Seatbelt webbing significantly weakened nearside front. Passengers seat insecure Nearside.   The Seven Dangerous Faults. Headlamp aim obviously incorrect. Supplementary restraint system indicates a fault Drivers door hinge insecure Fuel cap sealing device missing (cap seal missing) Fuel Cap Sealing device ineffective (filler neck sealing face damaged) Battery insecure and likely to cause a short circuit Power steering malfunctioning (limited power assistance, power steering pump noisy)   2 advisories  no spare wheel fitted Tyre worn close to legal limit.   The link to Companies House https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/08471137   The MOT was obtained on the 8th of October after I had paid a deposit and two days before I took possession of the vehicle. The Garage the MOT was obtained from is in Bristol as is the dealer. I live around 130 miles from the dealer.   I have engaged with the thread as far as possible with other commitments and did not notice the set of questions I did not reply to in my first post which was responded to at 1 in the morning. Any help is gratefully received.      
    • ok. well you could try appealing using the forms you used before i will guess these: you dealt with the others so why not this one? they at the time should have equally been aware there was another PCN outstanding and dealt with that too or atleast told you.   not really sure but worth a try.   im sure a brief likewise note to the bailiff will halt things for now, once he know forms have gone in/history.   dx  
    • Hi BankFodder,  From what I see, the MOT place is based in Milton Keys, the dealership said that they received this vehicle in a trade-in deal.  The agent said he has used this vehicle to travel to Birmingham and back to London with no issues, but then when I spoke with another agent via phone, he stated that its a new vehicle and they haven't really test driven it properly etc... I believe that everything they have said so far is a lie and what they stated on the sales/page on auto-trader is also a lie.  I'm unsure who did the MOT, but I have reason to believe it was the previous owner. 
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Gross Misconduct - loyalty card fraud


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I have been working for my employer, a supermarket for nearly 2 years.

 

In the summer, our store had self scan tills installed. During the training, a person outside the company did it and showed all the screens. On the reused bags screen, a colleague asked on the lines of 'Whats there to stop you from entering the maximum number of bags everytime you use it?' The trainer laughed and said 'How much is few points extra to (supermarket). I work on the checkouts.

 

On Saturday, I clocked in as per usual and reported to the supervisor station at the checkouts. Line Manager was there and asked me to go the Managers Office. In the office, I was told by the deputy store manager that out of the 40 times I have used the ss tills since they became live, I have inputted the maximum number of bags 22 times. He had print outs of my loyalty card transactions from the past 4 months. I was in a state of shock and was then forced to write down names of colleagues that were doing this as well as I commented that others were doing it. I was in shock and put names down which I couldn't acknowledge if they done it and put ? by those names. I was then suspended on full pay til further notice

 

The thing is I have seen customers doing this as well. As an employee, I have been caught as I swipe my discount card after swiping my loyalty card. I reckon it happens across all stores and all those stores that reward extra points for reusing their own bags.

 

I have my investigation on Thursday - won't get an outcome on that day. I feel bad, angry and ask why was I the one being caught.

 

As part of the suspension rules, I am not allowed to talk to colleagues and visit the store. A few hours of me being suspended, I met up with the union rep - who works on checkouts at a pub carpark, 150 yards from work. Guess who walks past us? My favourite colleague who is such a dear friend to me. She asked what was I doing in my civvies with (UR's name) when I was at work. I said, 'I can't talk'. Her face sank. It was the most painful thing I have seen unrelated to illness and grieving for a love in anyone's face. It breaks my heart being unable to tell her or see her during the process. It looked like her heart was breaking too. At times of need and help, I am unable to get it!

 

I am so worried that I will get dismissed. I will tell the deputy manager that I am regretting my actions, am ashamed and apologise.

 

The thing is I did notice when I visited another store today. The manned tills' keypad has 123 as the top line of numbers. The ss tills top row is 789. I normally use 3 bags (as I walk home) and I just pressed the top right hand number on the bags reused without looking at the screen. I cannot justify this as a reason for all transactions - especially those that are just a few quid! Ok for £15.

 

I am dyslexic and recently had an eye op where I had 2 weeks off sick. One of the problems with my eye condition pre and post op is that I experience bad glare. The angle of the ss screens along with the lights above them make them difficult to read at various angles, depending on which ss till I use. I don't have an issue working on manned tills as I can adjust the height and tilt of the screen. The ss tills are fixed.

 

I did post a thread on another website forum and many posters kept mentioning my dyslexia and eye condition are just excuses.

 

Work will not tell my colleagues why I'm not at work. They will say I am sick. I don't phone in sick willy nilly and this will raise suspicions

 

This is really getting me down. I am fed up, unable to discuss this with my parents as they would make matters worse, unable to talk to my colleagues and cannot relax.

 

I have times where I just cry - I am not a crying person and want to keep my job.

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Did you tell your employer the you couldn't work the ss tills because of your eyes?

 

If you have worked both then presumably you would have known the layout of the numbers on both?

 

Are you admitting that you did add extra points/bags because other people were doing it?

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Hi Mizzyme.................. You obviously need to offload to someone. I am sure you will be able to here. You don't seem to be asking a question.... is there something you want to ask or is it just so you can talk about how you feel? Not being a user of these self service tills (I hate them... I like the service tills especially getting to know individual workers) I am not sure exactly what the '[problem]' is and what dishonesty you are being accused of. Also are you saying the names you provided didn't do what you are alleged to have done? Also were your employers aware that you had problems with your eyes BEFORE going off sick?

 

Your reaction /crying is normal to a stressful situation. Let's hope you will be smiling soon.

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Basically I been done for adding more points to my loyalty account than needed. For example, buying 2 items and putting 9 reused bag points. I did some shopping today at another store plus filled up my car with fuel and didn't use my loyalty card, just in case if I do keep my job, they may not want me to use my loyalty card. I kept my receipts as well. I've worked out I have put 180 points extra points on my LC. I will not use my card until I have spent enough money to cover 180 points. Today - 75 points.

 

My manager knows about my eye condition - not all of the problems assoicated with it as I don't know of a single person who heard of the condition before I talked to them about it.

 

Not everyone is trained on ss tills and for about 5 hours every Monday, I am the only colleague who is trained to use them out of the 7 working on the tills. There are supervisors, but they do other things.

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So to be clear you work at the store and also do your shopping there. Isn't there a special procedure for when you do your own shopping? I see the girls at our supermarket going around with a jacket over their uniform and they have to take their shopping to a supervisor to check out just avoid this type of problem. Is there no policy at your store like this?

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So to be clear you work at the store and also do your shopping there. Isn't there a special procedure for when you do your own shopping? I see the girls at our supermarket going around with a jacket over their uniform and they have to take their shopping to a supervisor to check out just avoid this type of problem. Is there no policy at your store like this?

 

Only time this happens is when colleagues finish work after the store closes and buy things a few mins before closing time.

 

I think regardless of the outcome of my investigation that this needs to be done. I'm not sure about what happens if a colleage at the store you have seen them doing this if they shop on a day off.

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Sorry if this seems a little blunt, but I will be straight with you. I think however much you try and mitigate this, you are going to have a bit of an uphill battle. Stores are incredibly hot on this, not just for the fact that a few pennies might be gained (and it is only a few pennies), but for the fact that of far more value to the supermarkets is the validity of the data which is collected through loyalty cards. They don't give something for nothing (despite what they would have you believe) and the data collected on what an individual purchases, or how many bags are re-used, often has a significant value to the company and therefore the integrity of that data is essential. Staff are routinely dismissed for collecting reward points on their own card where customers have not had one at the

checkout, and they will undoubtedly class the re-used bags points on a similar level.

 

You mention that you have witnessed customers doing the same. Were they allowed to get away with it, or were they pulled up and warned that this may be construed as theft? It sounds silly I know, but that is how any company would look at it, and as a supervisor of the SS checkouts, that should be one thing to look out for.

 

That is the case for the prosecution so to speak, and I am sure that you know most of what I have said already! On the other side of the coin is the matter of how you might stand a chance of how to deal with this. The point which you make about the dyslexia and eyesight problems may be valid to your case, but you will have to ask yourself from their point of view, how likely it is that the 'incorrect' entry of figures may be down to your condition? If you feel that this may be a strong point in your favour, then you should certainly make that a key element of your defence, however you may well have already shot that particular bolt by pointing out that other members of staff also routinely do the same as this suggests that you did in fact know what you were doing rather than making a genuine mistake.

 

You certainly have the right attitude in expressing embarassment and shame. Your employer will certainly be looking for this if they are undecided as to whether dismissal is warranted. No doubt the other employees will be subject to the same scrutiny of their loyalty points as a part of the investigation, and it is crucial that any action taken against you is also taken against the others - anything less and you may well have a case for a Tribunal. The employer, if faced with having to dismiss a number of staff will hopefully decide that a warning to all store staff about loyalty card abuse may be in the best interests of the store, and give those found guilty a formal warning.

 

As far as not communicating with other staff is concerned, the employer may certainly prevent you from entering the store and speaking to other staff, however what you do off the premises is entirely your business, especially if it does not affect the case against you. Indeed if it comes to it, it may be necessary to speak to others in order to defend yourself. You may be able to get hold of the person you were forced to ignore privately and let her know the reason why (although you may also ask for it not to be spread around too much as that could affect the investigation against others).

 

Sorry if most of this is not what you wanted to hear. Use the Union to your maximum advantage, and don't be fobbed off (as some are inclined to do). Think carefully about your best defence, and try not to get too despondent about this, however hard it may seem.

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If I get dismissed, this should be looked across all stores as I cannot be the only colleague be sacked.

 

Because work told my colleagues that I was off work due to illness. My favourite colleague who has turned out to be an amazing friend (the one who walked past me and the UR as mentioned in another post) thought something was fishy as I don't phone in sick UNLESS I have to.

 

I have told her about my suspension and my regret of putting her name down - I was forced to. She says that her OH uses the card more than her and he has done the 9 bags several times. He has visited other stores when my friend has been at work, so those few times will be justified. I have told her NOT to discuss about me at work about the incident and DON'T stop putting 9 bags when using the SS tills as it would look dodgy if this practice that both her and her OH stopped 2 days after my suspension as it looks like that I been with contact with them. Her OH was a shop steward at his former job before he retired and was amazed about my treatment. He said a better idea was to give me a formal warning and to tell colleagues directly NOT to do it as it could affect your job. I have not told anyone else about my contact with my friend and her OH.

 

She then said how tense the atmosphere was at work and it was horrible as customers and colleagues asked her what's happened to me. They are missing me.

 

I am feeling very down, forced to eat as I am on a weight loss plan and need to eat fully otherwise I won't get any benefits and fed up.

 

I will use my UR and she will be able to assist what I can or cannot mention.

 

My Line Manager told me to mention about the trainer for the SS tills saying 'whats a few points going to do to you?'

 

At work, we have a recruitment freeze and labour matching is taking place. The whole store is needing to lose about 200 hours (its a small store 18,000sqft) and I don't want the store to think dismissing me is a solution to reduce the excess by 39 hours - I work full time.

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If I get dismissed, this should be looked across all stores as I cannot be the only colleague be sacked.

 

Completely agree. The management (or employee) cannot turn a blind eye to some cases but discipline others. That would be unfair treatment.

 

I have told her about my suspension and my regret of putting her name down - I was forced to. She says that her OH uses the card more than her and he has done the 9 bags several times. He has visited other stores when my friend has been at work, so those few times will be justified. I have told her NOT to discuss about me at work about the incident and DON'T stop putting 9 bags when using the SS tills as it would look dodgy if this practice that both her and her OH stopped 2 days after my suspension as it looks like that I been with contact with them. Her OH was a shop steward at his former job before he retired and was amazed about my treatment. He said a better idea was to give me a formal warning and to tell colleagues directly NOT to do it as it could affect your job. I have not told anyone else about my contact with my friend and her OH.

 

As I said previously, hopefully the practice highlighted by this may be so commonplace that a general warning may be more appropriate than having to discipline every member of staff.

 

I am feeling very down, forced to eat as I am on a weight loss plan and need to eat fully otherwise I won't get any benefits and fed up.

 

Look after your health first and foremost

 

I will use my UR and she will be able to assist what I can or cannot mention.

 

My Line Manager told me to mention about the trainer for the SS tills saying 'whats a few points going to do to you?'

 

Once again, I completely agree. You have been led to believe that this is acceptable practice

 

At work, we have a recruitment freeze and labour matching is taking place. The whole store is needing to lose about 200 hours (its a small store 18,000sqft) and I don't want the store to think dismissing me is a solution to reduce the excess by 39 hours - I work full time.

..

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Maybe they have told a porkie in why she is off to see how many others are doing the same thing. I mean warned and they wont be actually catching them red handed. I wouldnt be suprised if they are not monitoring any staff personal transactions now by camera. If they need to lose 200 hours they might think lets catch 5 !!! (Just supposing possibility of it of course there)

 

Am I right in that the cagger sounds young. I hope if you have a good record with the company ,that they would bear that in mind and just give a warning or something rather than sacking, but better to prepare yourself just in case.

 

The trouble is to be blunt for such a small amount of points, imagine if all their employees are doing it. I am suprised feeling as paranoid as I do just going to shops that employees would risk their jobs over something so silly. Thats not a dig at you, but you said many are doing it and to be honest imagine if a shop lifter said to the security man on caught after taking his first theft of dvd or the like, sir they are all doing it, it wouldnt work would it.

 

Thing is you have admitted doing it, they cant tar everyone the same until catch them at it. I even on a small shop use loads of bags still, I like to pack my eggs separate and milk due to recent accidents. Your colleagues could argue they do the same unless caught otherwise. I could see 9 bags used, but was it 22 or 23 you said the maximum, I dont know how you could argue your eyes when you manage to supervise the same tills for the customer.

 

I hope they go easy on you, but again you have to be prepared xx

 

ps. I never use the self service tills due to panic when one went wonky and staff had to help me out. The store have left themselves open to abuse it seems, they are just hoping that doesnt also include their own staff especially as they also must qualify for some staff discounts or benefits.

Edited by loopinlouie
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Maybe they have told a porkie in why she is off to see how many others are doing the same thing. I mean warned and they wont be actually catching them red handed. I wouldnt be suprised if they are not monitoring any staff personal transactions now by camera. If they need to lose 200 hours they might think lets catch 5 !!! (Just supposing possibility of it of course there)

 

Am I right in that the cagger sounds young. I'll be 30 next year! I hope if you have a good record with the company ,that they would bear that in mind and just give a warning or something rather than sacking, but better to prepare yourself just in case. Named Colleague of the Region last year, made it in the shortlist for this year, Several 100% scores with mystery shoppers.

 

 

The trouble is to be blunt for such a small amount of points, imagine if all their employees are doing it. I am suprised feeling as paranoid as I do just going to shops that employees would risk their jobs over something so silly. Thats not a dig at you, but you said many are doing it and to be honest imagine if a shop lifter said to the security man on caught after taking his first theft of dvd or the like, sir they are all doing it, it wouldnt work would it.

 

Thing is you have admitted doing it, they cant tar everyone the same until catch them at it. I even on a small shop use loads of bags still, I like to pack my eggs separate and milk due to recent accidents. Your colleagues could argue they do the same unless caught otherwise. I could see 9 bags used, but was it 22 or 23 you said the maximum, I dont know how you could argue your eyes when you manage to supervise the same tills for the customer. Sorry to confuse you here. I have put in 9 bags (maximum given) on 22 or 23 occassions. I find some tills are worse than others with the glare and unfortunately, these are the only ones available/open when I want to do my shopping.

I hope they go easy on you, but again you have to be prepared xx

In all of my employers I have worked in the past, I have never worked with such a brilliant bunch of colleagues before and many love me.

 

ps. I never use the self service tills due to panic when one went wonky and staff had to help me out. The store have left themselves open to abuse it seems, they are just hoping that doesnt also include their own staff especially as they also must qualify for some staff discounts or benefits.

 

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I would hope then after being employee of region they would bear that in mind as you obviously love you job xx

 

By the way I consider 30 young compared to me 40's(me 40 pushing 80 with my stress face lines), seriously though I hope things go okay for you. :)

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Please look at my first post. I cannot do links as I'm a newbie.

 

Had my investigation about this on Thursday. I got a bit confused with myself at first, but corrected myself. This is due to my dyslexia as I cannot cope well with stress.

 

I told the manager conducting the investigation:

. The glare from the ss tills is bad and cannot adjust the screens like the manned checkouts. I have an eye condition which makes glares worse.

. The ss tills numberpad has a different number orientation to the manned tills. I normally use 3 bags when I do shopping - a seperate bag for chilled stuff and two others to distribute the weight as I walk home. The 9 and 3 buttons are in the same place on the keypads. I am dyslexic and this is very confusing

. Mentioned the training issue with my colleagues and I raising the point to the external trainer that what would stop us to putting down 9 bags everytime we use them. My union rep also works on checkouts and she was on a different training group to me and her group raised this as well. The trainer said in words like 'nothing, you aren't going to be traced, what's it going to cost the company and it will boost your points very well!' We were encouraged to put down 9 bags. The training booklet we filled in had NO mention about re-using bags and adding extra points.

. Never told by the employer about any consequences of putting down more bags than we need. The manager said loyalty card fraud is listed as one of the reasons for gross misconduct in our employee handbook and asked me when was the last time (before I got suspended) I read my handbook. I replied, like 99% of colleagues, they will reply with 'don't know' or 'ages ago'. This happens across the UK workforce, not just at this company.

. Have no tracking facility for customers' loyalty card transactions. My details came up because I swipe my loyalty card along with my staff discount. So have no record of customers doing this. I have only seen this from the receipts customers leave behind. My UR feels its unfair that I should get disciplinary action for this whilst customers do this everyday get away with it!

. My dyslexia - I get confused with number orientations as mentioned. Even I have dialled numbers with placing a 1 with a 7 etc and the fact I don't have full control (not too sure if that is what I mean) of my actions.

. The fact is open to abuse by anyone. I did explain the names written down I was forced to write them down and know for a fact that one of them her husband uses the loyalty card more than my colleague. He has told me he has been putting 9 bags himself. They cannot discipline my colleague because of her husband's actions really.

. My past achievements - colleague of the region last year and several 100% mystery customer interactions.

 

I still haven't got a date for it yet - I should get a letter through the post on Monday as should have received it today, but I have received nothing from anyone today.

 

My UR and the people in the region office reckon I should get a warning, what level (verbal, written, final) unsure as the trainer openly encouraged to put down 9 bags, customers do it and weren't told by anyone at work about the consequences of putting extra bags. I've told my UR that if I get dimissed, then I will put in an appeal. Why should I get dismissed when customers can please themselves with adding all of the loyalty points in the world?

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I did post a thread on another website forum and many posters kept mentioning my dyslexia and eye condition are just excuses.

 

Now JumpyCheese - oops sorry, wrong site - Mizzyme , you know that isn't strictly true. The posters on the other site has the benefit of having read all your posts and not just cleaned up versions of them - before you deleted them because you didn't like the advice you were getting. You admitted on MSE that you knowingly and deliberately entered the wrong number of bags, and you only started to introduce these other versions of reality once people had pointed out that your could be dismissed. The advice you had was to be honest and tell the truth - not make up excuses. Especially not given your unfortunate past employment record - which you also mentioned in great detail. I believe another dismissal and was it two or three "redundancies" (let go after a few months in the job) - all within 2.5 years?

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I am a barrister specialising in employment law, and only represent employees. My advice on employment issues is advice - not legal opinion - and is based only on the facts you provide. If you want an accurate assessment of your case and prospects, you should get legal opinion from a lawyer - not a public forum. Anything I tell you is for guidance only, and is based on my experience of the law in the context of what details you provide.

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Guys, please, stop listening to this psoter or attempting to help.

 

The part of their post you can stop reading at is:

 

"The thing is I have seen customers doing this as well. As an employee, I have been caught as I swipe my discount card after swiping my loyalty card. I reckon it happens across all stores and all those stores that reward extra points for reusing their own bags."

 

Here, and from what she's said before is where it's clear that this was no mistake, all the eyesight and dyslexia stuff is merely excuses thought up afterwards. I'm not suggesting she doesn't have these conditions, just that they did not play any part in this fraud, they've become convenient excuses.

 

On the other forum she (although a lot of her posts have since disapeared) chops and changes between admitting it was deliberate and then she clearly decides her excuse might be good enough after all and goes back to it. She was given the best advice possible given the contradictions she'd made (the fact she admitted to the first accuser that everyone does it and it wasn't a mistake) which was to come clean and beg for her job. If she can't stick to a story within one post (It was both a deliberate fraudulent act and a mistake due to illnesses:???:) then it's clear she'd have no chance at a disciplinary if she goes in lying like she has on forums. They'll see right through it, especially given she's already told them she done it because everyone else does and that a trainer said she could get away with it.

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Welcome to our guests :-)

 

I think that enough is enough, and in the interests of harmony I will close this topic for now.

 

My original advice stands as written. If there is a genuine case to be made for a misunderstanding based on dyslexia and poor eyesight, then that needs to be made, however if you have already admitted that you knew your actions are wrong then this will be extremely difficult and runs the risk of coumpounding any element of dishonesty. The point about being told by the trainer that this was acceptable, is also a mitigating factor, however there may be an equally important consideration on the part of the employer that even if you were told this, you would still have known it was wrong and should not have done it. Build your case based on facts, not assumptions, and where there is an acceptance of wrongdoing, express remorse as may be appropriate. Hopefully you will indeed escape with a warning.

 

As a general note, as witnessed above, it is important that if you are hoping for an accurate opinion as to a particular situation, then make sure that you ask the same questions of all concerned. You cannot then be accused of playing one forum off against another. There has been good and valid advice offered on both sites, and you should take this and act accordingly. I sincerely hope that everything turns out as you would hope it does, and I will happily reopen the thread if further advice is needed.

Any advice given is done so on the assumption that recipients will also take professional advice where appropriate.

 

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