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    • nothing you can do can product against the very rare judge lottery syndrome.
    • not sure why you added the blue line I've highlighted? that's no in the we gave you.   as for your question... PRAC's roboclaim computer knows when the account was taken out, after all it raised the claim and checked everything carefully first before issuing the request via northants bulk courts equally inept roboclaim computer... 
    • I've been researching in preparation of compiling my particularised defence/WS.    I'm none too happy that some judges still seem to be siding with DCAs and seemingly brushing aside anything that we have assumed to be "necessary" for DCAs to have a winning case.    Reading a recent "summary" from another poster (another thread with case similar to mine - very old, illegible application form, no default notice, reliance on their own software to prove it was ever sent) and the judgment made in favour of the DCA and even suggesting that there was no "agreement with the DCA, they simply owned the debt, not the agreement"  Makes me very nervous.    Especially if cases like this will be judged on "probability" - the probability that if I signed the original application form, then I must have taken out the credit card and racked up the alleged debt as shown in statements enclosed in their WS (and dated some ten years later).   Is it ok to post some "evidence" I've found from elsewhere?    This is in line with my fears that regardless of how hard one tries to rebut the "lack of evidence" produced by DCAs for chasing these very old "alleged" debts, it does appear to come down to the luck of what judge you get on the day and how much they can be swayed by the DCA solicitor.    A quick Google search produced the following - from one case - this related to a credit agreement - which resulted in someone being made bankrupt - that person appealed the bankruptcy order on the grounds of defective credit agreement and default notice and this was the appeal judge's decision:   The necessary formalities for the entry into the regulated consumer credit agreement (which related to the debt in issue) were not complied with; The default notice served in respect of that credit agreement was defective.   The First Ground The Appellant argued that she did not receive the terms and conditions when she entered into the credit agreement and, accordingly, section 61 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (“CCA”) had not been complied with and the agreement could not be enforced. The agreement had been entered in 1995 and, whilst it had provided a microfiche copy of the front page of the application, the Respondent had been unable to provide a copy of the terms.   Despite the terms not being produced, the District Judge had found that, in the circumstances, it was very likely that such terms existed and would have been provided to the Appellant when she entered into the Agreement. Mr Justice Mann held that this was a finding that the District Judge was entitled to make.   Further, Mr Justice Mann found that it was implicit from the District Judge’s findings that she considered that the terms and conditions not only existed but had been subscribed to by the Appellant’s signature and, consequently, the requirements of section 61 CCA were fulfilled. Mr Justice Mann held that this was also a justifiable finding which should not be interfered with on appeal.   The Second Ground The Appellant also argued that the default notice upon which the Respondent relied did not comply with the Consumer Credit (Enforcement, Default and Termination Notice) Regulations 1989 because it stated the full balance of the account rather than the total of the missed payments. The Respondent argued that, as a result of the missed payments, it was contractually entitled to the entire balance subject to the service of the appropriate notice, a requirement which was fulfilled by the default notice itself and, consequently, the sum required to remedy the breach was the entire amount.   Mr Justice Mann agreed with the Respondent and the District Judge, holding that: “If by the time the default notice is served circumstances have arisen which entitle the lender to recover not merely sums which might be regarded as arrears, by which I assume is meant accumulated minimum payments, but also the whole of the sum, then they are entitled to claim that sum, and the sum to require to remedy the breach for non-payment of that sum is the payment of the whole sum due. The bank is not confined, at that stage, to claiming merely the amount of arrears if it has an accrued contractual right to have the whole of the sum.”   Do judgments like these not mean that a lot of what you guys do on here (and for which I and many others are VERY grateful) somewhat redundant. What is happening to judges just accepting "well, the terms must have been there if you signed it" -    Feeling quite nervous now.
    • we know it wasn't done to avoid enforcement we understand completely. but that doesn't take from away the fact that it happened   you can't appeal the pcn's on the basis that 'it was not his vehicle to levy upon'. the law clearly states otherwise.          
    • here is a question for you, is yu house divided up into a retail/business area  and domestic area for business rates purposes? If not why on earth are you paying business water rates? ceertainly not for tax purposes as you can claim any legit expense without having to reclassify your home as a business premises. i would be stopping this nonsense and goping back to whatever water supplier is the domestic one for your area. there is stuff all they can do to get the £40 from you whan you do that.
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mask8007

exclusive leather sofas

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I'm another disgruntled customer of Leather Lords in Birmingham, who now appear to be trading as Exclusive Leather Sofas. Leather Lords were unable to correctly fulfil my order so I cancelled and have been waiting for a refund of nearly £3000 for over 4 months. Trading Standards have intervened, but Leather Lords just seem to hold them in contempt and have not fulfilled promises made to them regarding our refund. We've now issued court proceedings and hope that this is succesful

 

I have now filed a report regarding Leather Lords and Exclusive Leather Sofas on actionfraud.org.uk. I'm not sure if they are acting fraudulently, so I will let the experts investigate and decide.

 

Action Fraud is the place for you to find out about fraud. the UK’s national fraud reporting centre. If you’ve been scammed, ripped off or conned, there is something you can do about it - get in touch with them.

 

Here are a couple of definitions of types of fraud from their web site :-

 

Advance fee fraud is when fraudsters target victims to make advance or upfront payments for goods, services and/or financial gains that do not materialise

 

Long and short firm fraud is when a seemingly genuine business is set up, but has the intention of defrauding its customers and suppliers. Long firm fraud is when the business has developed a good reputation and credit history, while short firm fraud happens when the bogus business has been in operation for a few months. Short firm fraud is often internet related. Fraud relating to bankruptcy and insolvency can involve companies fraudulently trading immediately before being declared insolvent, phoenix companies or illegal trading while suspended

 

As I say, I'm not saying Leather Lords or Exclusive Leather Sofas are acting fraudulently, but when you read these definitions it does give cause for concern and needs to be investigated. If you too have had a similar experience, record details of your case on actionfraud.org.uk. The more cases they get to hear about, the more they are likely to do something about it

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I'm very sorry indeed to have found this thread so late :-x

 

I ordered two sofas from the Birmingham store on July 4th, and paid up front by visa debit (which I now understand is not very wise). I was told delivery would be likely in 4 weeks, 6 at the outside, and that I would get a call the next day to confirm. Almost as soon as I had paid, at the back of my mind I started to think that maybe I might have picked the wrong company to give my money to.

 

Over the last 9 weeks I have (from time to time) phoned the store and politely chased the order. Finally, I was told last week that today would be delivery day.

 

After trying unsuccessfully all of today to try to confirm the delivery would be coming, I went to the store, which was shut. Staff at a nearby shop told me that they had cleared out last week - I guess shortly after my last phone conversation :-( I was told some other things about the firm's situation that I won't repeat here.

 

I was absolutely horrified. I've since found out that it is actually possible to make a 'chargeback' claim with visa debit, which may get my money back. I'm going to keep track of the London Gazette and will post details about what has happened to the firm here.

 

Hopefully not too many people will end up badly out of pocket in the end. In future I'll do my research before entering my pin...

 

 

Dave

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Not sure what this means but I found this listing on the London Gazette to day.

 

 

Gazette Issue 822697 published on the 10 August 2010. Page 581 of 1823

 

EXCLUSIVE LEATHER SOFAS LIMITED 04290207 (D1) 30/07/2010

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Think this is a 'documents received' entry for the annual accounts for the Cannock based store (although to be honest I'm new to searching London Gazette). Will give them a call tomorrow...

 

Dave

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Hi

Can I just check is this the Birmingham Branch in Camp Hill that is closed down, not the one in Cannock?

 

:-x

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My order was with the Camp Hill one, and that's the one that I found was shut down today.

 

Unfortunately I also called the Cannock store a few times today and got no response - and from what the staff next door to the Camp Hill store said, I think the whole company has gone under :-(

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Thank You for getting back to me. A lot of customers are going to be very angry or are already that, I'm one of them.

 

Thank You for replying.

Hope you having Good Luck getting your money back.

 

:-x:mad2:

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I'm really sorry to see you've been waiting for your sofa too. I hope you can get a credit card refund. I don't know how long these things take to get sorted out - hope it doesn't take too long.

 

I've had some bad experiences lately with furniture delivery, but this is by far the worst. Next purchase I won't pay a penny or sign anything till I know I've got exactly what I want.

 

I can't believe that a company can carry on the way ELS have for so long. :-x

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I rang their Cannock branch this morning and also had no reply. I live near Cannock and will take a drive to see if they are still open and report back.

My order was placed on the 8th of July for a Minuetto suite costing £1769.99, I don't think I will ever see it.

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Just visited ELS in Cannock today at 10.45am and found it locked but display furniture still inside. No one around and car park empty with a barrier across the main entrance. No signs anywhere to say if they are closing or still in business, but given the fate of the Birmingham branch it doesn't look very promising. I for one will be contacting my credit card company to see about a refund.

 

I took photos but only have 5 posts so cannot include direct links here.

However, if you paste the links into a browser you should be able to see them, just replace * with h in the address and close the gap between googlea pis.com

 

ELS Cannock main entrance.

 

*ttp://commondatastorage.googleapis.com/static.panoramio.com/photos/original/40431007.jpg

 

ELS Cannock inside front entrance.

 

*ttp://commondatastorage.googleapis.com/static.panoramio.com/photos/original/40431014.jpg

ELS Cannock back of store.

 

*ttp://commondatastorage.googleapis.com/static.panoramio.com/photos/original/40431021.jpg

ELS Cannock rear car park. 7th August 2010.

 

*ttp://commondatastorage.googleapis.com/static.panoramio.com/photos/original/40431024.jpg

 

 

 

 

(.)

Edited by we shall overcome
http:// size

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This is awful :-x

 

Yesterday I exchanged numbers with another disappointed customer at the B'ham branch. He suggested there might be some possibility of taking legal action against the people who run/ran the company if a case could be established.

 

From reading through some of the previous posts ELS clearly have a long history of dissatisfied customers. I wonder if there is enough information available about their business practices to put a case together.

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Hello

 

I am sorry to hear that there are more and more Customer's just like me that have paid by Credit Card and those that have paid by cash.

I have been down to the Store in Birmingham and confirmation has been given by the other branches next to ELS that they have gone into Administrations.

These are some advice I can only share through my own experience that I am going through now.

 

1.) If you have paid by Credit Card, contact your Credit Card Company and inform them of the

situation and they will asked you to get confirmation of a Letter of a Liquidation/Termination

Letter from the Administrator's to confirm they have gone into Administration also contact

Trading Standards.

 

2.) If you have paid by Debit Card also contact your Bank for further advice and Trading

Standards, they will be able to advise you which next step to take.

 

3.) If you have paid by Hire Purchased, you need to contact the Hire Purchased Company and

prove that you have not receive the goods and also contact Trading Standards.

 

4.) If you have made the purchased by cash or a deposit you will need to claim of the

Administrator and also contact Trading Standards.

 

Please register your complaints to Trading Standards as it would give them more evidence of what Exclusive leather Sofa has done and they can pass your details onto the Administrator once they have been informed giving us the Customer a chance to get our money back.

 

Good Luck to everyone

 

:-x

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Hi Berts Dad

 

I have finally log my complaint with Action Fraud.

Thank You

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Hello

 

To all the Consumer's that have been affected by Exclusive leather Sofas or Leather Lords as know as before in Birmingham or Cannock, we might be able to stop Companies like this from operating if they have been reported.

Contact Action Fraud.org.uk or Tel:0300 123 2040

 

They are very Helpful and also give you other information on organisation's that might be able to help you.

 

Best of Luck

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I have logged a complaint with action fraud too.

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Hi

 

I went to this ELS the Sunday before the bank holiday, my mother saw two sofas a 3 and 2 seater, the price was astonishingly cheap, I checked it and it seemed really well made so I put down half the money. After I paid the salesman then said it will take at least three months to deliver. So yesterday I decided to look at the website which does not work, so I phoned the number off the internet (NO ANSWER) I then tried two other numbers and guess what (NO ANSWER) I am now extremely worried as I had a problem with a sofa firm many years ago and they were called "BROTHERS FURNITURE" and went bust and I lost all the money. I am going to see them later after work, I did pay the money by credit card so I should be alright I hope. After looking at the there terms and conditions I have noticed a lot of spelling mistakes which makes me feel even more that they are a bunch of crooks. I have not seen one positive review concerning ELS and hope that no one else falls into there grasp. Thank you for informing me of this firm which I hope will never have to deal with again.

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i am a recent member of staff at els/leather lords until the company was liquidated on wed/thurs of last week

any questions?

i will do all i can to help anyone

thanks

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Yes, as I have also replied on your other thread - if you are genuine, please do the honorable thing and help out all of s who have been ripped off by these fraudsters? I do apologise if I sound a little mistrustful, but as anyone with any dealings with - Leather Lords/ELS/Exclusive Leather Sofas whatever they are called at the moment - will say, it's not surprising.

We need , where the furniture is - and the delivery men who emptied the store WILL KNOW THIS! We already know the main players in all this - So, how about doing the honourable thing?

Edited by dx100uk
no pers info please

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Yes, can I have my sofa & chair too (they were on the shop floor and sold as in stock) - my finance documents have been altered to say that my furniture was delivered, which it wasn't - so can I have my furniture please, cos this is fraud and falsification

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they should have done the honourable thing and called all customers whow had left a deposit, I'm presuming there was a filing system with customers invoices who were waiting on furniture to be be delivered

Edited by dx100uk
clarity

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I wud be surprised if staff were not aware of this issue I called on 23 august was told by a MEMBER OF STAF that my sofas wud be coming on the friday they knew they wud not be there so how can you help please tell me

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Would anybody like to contact Rogue Trader on the BBC, by the way jipcus would you like to give an Interview? I guess not!

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can you give any details of the administrator? Can you advise if it will reopen as another name. My missing part of a corner settee is in the office so all i need is to get in to collect it

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JANE - by reading all the other blogs so far, both stores have been emptied out and abandoned, you will not be able to go and get your missing bits. And I have a sneaky feeling that this company/companies have not officially been declared insolvent, I think they have just packed up and cleared out while the going is good. (for them). I doubt if we will ever see an insolvency notice or liquidators appointed, because no one will know where they are???????? They will, as the very "helpful" ex member of staff explained, simply set up under a new name somewhere else. But I will not give up on this, I am passing everything I have to the Birmingham bailiffs, as well as to Trading Standards and fraud agency. Not to mention local press & radio. You guys over in the Cannock area, you need to do the same, as over here our people have no jurisdiction over Cannock area. Lets all do as much as we can to get these bastards - excuse my language.

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The Cannock Store still has furniture in it, the back door is open and so is one of the containers out the back. I have no intention of claiming the furniture I believe is still inside the shop, unless I can do this officially as I'd probably get done for theft of my own furniture but I think that by the time the local community realises the above, it may all disappear. I have informed Watchdog, Trading Standards and attempted to contact the Police (however they put me on hold for 25 minutes before I gave up).

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