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Hi,

Can you good folks give advice please.

 

On 13 August 2010, I parked at our local shopping centre with my two kids both under 5.

 

I purchased a 2 hour parking ticket which would adequately cover my shopping period.

 

Just as I was about to leave and return back to my car (I would have been 20 mins early), my youngest child was sick and had an 'accident'. This made me delayed as I had to clean her up, and in the end I was 20 mins late.

 

Some Jobsworth had just wrote out a parking fine £60 or pay within 14 days £30.

I wrote my mitigating circumstances to the Council's agents in Northampton asking them to show compassion as I am a regular user of the town centre and this is the first time this has ever happened to me.

I received a reply saying 'I should put extra time on the ticket to allow for unforseen circumstances'.

 

I took a copy of my original letter and the reply I had received to our local council offices asking them to look at it again.

I have now been told that I have to pay and that they are already doing me a favour by allowing me to pay the lesser amount.

 

I told them I was disgusted and I would go to the local paper, they said 'thats your prerogative'.

Any advice please?

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If you want to fight it, you will need to follow the prescribed appeals route.

 

1. Write and contest it (this is called an informal appeal or informal representation)

2. Await a response/decision

 

I guess this is where you are at, as of now? So the next stages are:

 

3. If you do not pay, the discount will expire and they will send the registsred keeper a Notice to Owner#

4. The registered keeper can re-appeal - this is known as a formal representation

5. If the decision is "no" again, the matter may be referred to an adjudicator to hear the case and make a ruling

 

That's how the system works. Now you need to make a judgement on the strength of your case. To me, unless you have corroborating evidence of the sickness/circumstances, I would guess the decision could go either way - 50/50. Do you want to gamble, knowing you will forfeit the discount, or would you be better off paying now? It's your decision. I can't honestly advise either way.

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Some Jobsworth had just wrote out a parking fine £60 or pay within 14 days £30.

 

With that kind of attitude its not surprising they rejected your appeal, your car was parked 20 minutes after your ticket expired what would you expect the CEO to do check all the local toilets for sick kids first?

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Thanks Jamberson for your help. Green and Mean, no I dont expect the CEO to check the toilets for sick kids, pity they dont get REAL jobs that make a difference to normal people's lives. Guess you live in La La Land and never put a step wrong, bet you are a real goody goody two shoes.

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I don't see (or see why) any way the system should accommodate for these circumstances, frustrating as they invariably are. Your hope would be that they quash the ticket on grounds of goodwill, but it seems you have already tried that option, and they have said no (probably understandably as anyone could claim their kid was sick and get more parking time, in fairness).

 

The only hope I would say you have to do anything but avoid this, is if somehow the pcn is not compliant - in terms of the paperwork of the ticket etc, not being legal in some way, or a problem with any signage or bay markings not complying with TSRGD, etc etc.

 

That is presuming, that it is a shopping centre car park owned by the council and not a private parking company (if they refer to a penalty charge not a parking charge it is a council, and the signage always helps) - either can be the case, it's just that the use of "agents in Northampton" is making me somewhat less sure...

The above post constitutes my personal opinion on the facts in the post compared with my personal knowledge of the applicable legislation. I make no guarantees of its legal accuracy. If you are in doubt seek advice of a legal professional specialising in the area concerned.

 

If my post has helped you please click my scales!

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joeblogs, it's not unusual to feel hard done by in these situations. The problem is that "discretion for mitigating circumstances" is your current route for challenge. The problem is that many councils are pretty hard on such matters (if they weren't local folklore would soon develop on how to "get off" a parking ticket).

 

Your situation is one that the system just does not allow for. It's not fair but it is how it is.

 

What I feel you have to do is to gamble on whether or not you wish to try the technical route for challenge (which creates the opportunity for the LA to foul up) or just pay and accept that on that day life dealt you a bum hand.

 

At risk is the time and effort and the discount to the penalty.

 

If you want to take that route the first thing to do is to scan and post the PCN and correspondence having first deleted personal details.

********************************************

Nothing in this post constitutes "advice" which I may not, in any event, be qualified to provide.

The only interpretation permitted on this post (or any others I may have made) is that this is what I would personally consider doing in the circumstances discussed. Each and every reader of this post or any other I may have made must take responsibility for forming their own view and making their own decision.

I receive an unwieldy number of private messages. I am happy to respond to messages posted on open forum but am unable to respond to private messages, seeking advice, when the substance of that message should properly be on the open forum.

Many thanks for your assistance and understanding on this.

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If you want to take that route the first thing to do is to scan and post the PCN and correspondence having first deleted personal details.

Agreed - this would also establish if it is a PCN and not an invoice by a PPC, it baffles me why he might have to deal with "agents in Northampton" when you would have thought (and scanned PCNs on here have reinforced this) that most councils would have their own departments which handle appeals.

 

There is no way other than good will a child being ill will get you off a parking ticket, so in reality, the technicality route is the only way this can go down to avoid payment and *hope* the council (if it is the council) have fouled something up somewhere down the line - if not, it's going to be one of these that will have to be paid and chalked down to experience/one of those things.

The above post constitutes my personal opinion on the facts in the post compared with my personal knowledge of the applicable legislation. I make no guarantees of its legal accuracy. If you are in doubt seek advice of a legal professional specialising in the area concerned.

 

If my post has helped you please click my scales!

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Thanks Jamberson for your help. Green and Mean, no I dont expect the CEO to check the toilets for sick kids, pity they dont get REAL jobs that make a difference to normal people's lives. Guess you live in La La Land and never put a step wrong, bet you are a real goody goody two shoes.

 

I didn't say I was perfect but then again I don't go around calling people jobsworths for doing the job they are paid for either. If people could be trusted then no doubt we would not need the police, store detectives, traffic wardens, ticket inspectors on public transport or any other job that has been created because given half a chance a large proportion of society would not pay when required but this is the real world and people do cheat and steal.

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Agreed - this would also establish if it is a PCN and not an invoice by a PPC,

[i think the OP has already established clearly enough that it is a council PCN, as they have already appealed to the council and had it rejected]

it baffles me why he might have to deal with "agents in Northampton"

[because if the OP doesn't pay a council PCN is processed onward through the TEC at Northampton, hence the "agents in Northampton"]

when you would have thought (and scanned PCNs on here have reinforced this) that most councils would have their own departments which handle appeals.

[they do, but only the intial appeals]

There is no way other than good will a child being ill will get you off a parking ticket, so in reality, the technicality route is the only way this can go down to avoid payment and *hope* the council (if it is the council) have fouled something up somewhere down the line - if not, it's going to be one of these that will have to be paid and chalked down to experience/one of those things.

 

..

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Thanks crem. You can't always be sure though, especially knowing how convincing some of the private PCNs look! Non-compliance seems to be the only thing he can hope for...

The above post constitutes my personal opinion on the facts in the post compared with my personal knowledge of the applicable legislation. I make no guarantees of its legal accuracy. If you are in doubt seek advice of a legal professional specialising in the area concerned.

 

If my post has helped you please click my scales!

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.it baffles me why he might have to deal with "agents in Northampton"

[because if the OP doesn't pay a council PCN is processed onward through the TEC at Northampton, hence the "agents in Northampton"].

 

I assumed the PCN was issued in or near Northampton. As he only had the PCN a month ago, it is nowhere near being passed through TEC yet. He certainly should not be dealing with TEC at this stage.

 

Joebloggs - can you clarify who exactly you wrote to in Northampton?

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