Should I go with CAB advice?

[Rocky Roadster]

Lost my job, got into debt, took out new (eagerly offered) borrowings to pay old borrowings and survive until things got better (silly boy). They didn't. Even now the bank still tries to get me to borrow more, even though my rating is shot and I would have no chance even if I wanted to.

 

I need support as my money problem is reaching crisis level (can't pay the rent). I have disputed several accounts where they do not have a legal agreement....

....so I went to the CAB for advice.

 

They want to take over dealing with the creditors, but insist on dealing with all of them, including the disputed accounts. This puts thousands of pounds "back on" my debt list and doesn't seem right as they don't have legal agreements and maybe the fight was giving me some of my personal esteem back.

 

The other option they are advising is bankruptcy. OH isn't happy as we have some horses that bring in a small income and we may lose them "battered through a sale ring for meat". We are doing our best to sell them to help us survive but the market is dead and you can't give them away, literally. Parents gave us some money a while back and technically they own the horses but we haven't got anything in writing. How can we protect them if we go bankrupt?

 

May lose OH if we go bankrupt, but that is another story.

 

Aegis have written to me and have bought a disputed account from AIC.

 

Capital One say if we don't pay they will sell the debt (disputed account- reconstituted agreement only). Am I bothered?

 

I spoke to Natwest last week and they gave me 28 days to provide I/E information, then Triton letter arrived almost immediately threatening action.

 

Lost direction now and things seem worse than ever.

 

Do I hand over to CAB?

 

Help.

 

RR

[tindwcel]

I'd say no; do not take the CAB advice. That's because to do so would seem to possibly cause more pain for you out of proportion to any benefit in doing so.

 

If you are making repayments more than you can afford then stop or reduce them, even for non-disputed debts. Priorities should be Council Tax, anything secured, such as a mortgage, & utilities. My understanding is that were the lenders succesfully to take you to court, you would only be ordered to pay at a rate you could actually afford.

 

Bear in mind I have no actual experience of this (my own strategy was to ignore creditors completely); I am merely repeating what I have learnt here.

Edited September 10, 2010 by tindwcel
typo

[harrassed senior]

Hi, well of course it is ultimately your decision, but they can do no more (and, in some cases a lot less) than came be done on here.

 

You mention not being able to pay rent, so I guess that means you don't own your own home, which, in these cicumstances will prove to be an asset (no pun intended).

 

Bankruptcy is, IMHO the last thing to do.

 

I would recomend starting seperate threads for each debt (doesn't matter how many, we have mostly all been there) and myself, I still am, but this site has been a true godsend.

 

At the moment don't worry too much about their 'threats' of what they, 'may, could, might' do.

 

First suggestions:

 

No further contact with any of them by 'phone, tell them in writing only

 

Only a County Court Judge is entitled to your I & E so don't send that.

 

Take a deep breath, realise you are among friends, and we will share the burden and provide help and advice on each step of the journey.

[sillygirl1]

I wouldn't unless you have children, they will NOT help you dispute the debts, they will NOT help you work out a proper priority order for paying the debts, they WILL pro rata the payments so the highest debt gets the most money (completely incorrectly if it inlcudes fees and charges).

 

What you need to do is to list the debts here and who is dealing with them, round up the amounts if you want to disguise them... CAB can do nothing you can't do yourself.

 

Have you sent anyone the disputed debt letters from the templates here yet? Have a read of the templates and that will give you an idea of who to send what letter to.

 

I would also get a file with lots of dividers and head each divider with the name of the debt and the name of whoever is collecting on it, list all correspondence in order on the front sheet and then you will have a nice little list ready should they creditor decide on court action.... you have to play them at their game for a bit but keep a few aces yourself.

[victoria_siempre]

Hi RR

 

I am no expert but am in a similar situation.

 

I agree with Sillygirl.

 

I phoned national debt helpline who advised me to pay nothing (not even a token payment) but write to all explaining that my priority payments exceeded my income. they advised me to send income & expenditure statements but you don't have to follow this advice for disputed debts. they advised me to to talk with anyone on the phone but I sometimes do when I'm bored.

 

the point is:

 

 

• I have followed your advice and contacted National debt help line
  
• They have advised me to....
  
• I have no money
  
• You are harassing me and I am in a fragile state of mental health
  

they are not interested in any moral arguments but your alleged debt is less profitable to them if they believe you can't make payments.

 

Making payments you can't afford only feeds the monster.

 

Love to all members on this site.

 

vic

[coledog]

Shall I go with CAB Advice? No in My humble opinion.

 

Same situation myself 5 years ago and advised to go bankrupt, never had the £450.

 

Concentrate on Priority Debts only. Draft a standard letter, 'to whom it may concern' saying that you have reviewed your income and expenditure and allowing for modest living expenses and priority payments/priority payment arrears you have no disposable income to offer any payment at this present time. You are prepared to review the situation if your circumstances improve significantly in the future. DON'T send income/expenditure or list of other creditors. Never offer token £1 payments. You can add that current circumstances are seriously affecting your health, family,wellbeing etc. Send to all non priority creditors who have been pestering you with their address and reference on the top. Don't sign. send recorded if possible.

 

This may not stop them harassing you or selling the debt on (and not informing the buyer of your circumstances). It does give you a reason for not speaking to them and complaining. They know if they go for a CCJ they are probably only going to get a £1 a week anyway.

 

As advised, you will still have to handle each one seperately with CAG help.

 

The CAB will not be able to stop harassment, particularly if payments are low and they do not have the resources to deal with individual debts. Also they are acknowledging the debts which you don't want to do if you ever want them to go away.

[coledog]

Agree with vic - you can say that you have taken advise on this matter (from National Debtline or whoever)

[Rocky Roadster]

Hi all,

Thanks for the quick replies.

 

I have been using the CCA templates from this excellent site, and they are working.

 

Only 1 CCJ so far and that came out of the blue when I had to reduce my arrangement with CL Finance due to a further drop in income and before I joined this site. The CCJ is for less than my original arrangement anyway, but it is in OH's name so that went down like a lead balloon (or like a ballistic missile might be a better analogy).

 

I went to the CAB to ask about homelessness, i.e. what do I do if I can't pay the rent, council tax etc. and they gave me a debt advisor who focused on the creditors, who are mostly on £1 arrangements. He has made me an appointment to discuss benefits, another step down? Whatever. Thoughts around card board boxes, a warm bed in prison or a mental home have crossed my mind.

 

I have a file with all correspondences in, and a dead file for disputed accounts that have gone away for now.

I have set up a database for creditors with all the relevant information and each letter/call payment documented with date and time. I can easily print reports from the database at a click of a button. It makes it easier to keep track as my memory is going a bit wobbly.

 

On the other hand I told Natwest that I am registered with National Debtline who cannot offer a DMP because I have less than £100 a month that I can pay creditors with. I have told them 4 times and each time they ask for authority to deal with my Money Advisor.

 

The CAB would take this hassle away I suppose.

 

I do not want to lose control, but the CAB said that they would deal with the creditors for a few months and then they could give me some template letters?

 

I feel as though this is an important decision and I am very tired and down at the moment, so can't think straight.

 

One minute I want to hand it all over, the next I don't.

 

Sorry to be so negative. Good to talk as they say.

 

RR

[Surfer01]

In 2008 CAB advised me to go bankrupt as I had over £21,000 of debt and had been made redundant, but when I disagreed with this they set up a payment plan, but prioritised debts incorrectly causing more issues. Eventually went across to CCCs and set up a DMP. Although still on very low income we now owe less than £10,000 as we sold some assets, but now only have 2 debts and can pay each the full instalment every month.

[coledog]

Banks etc saying that they will only accept payments from or talk to a 'money advisor' is, I think, a way of ensuring that they get something as the norm is to set up some kind of payment plan. Also they get their hands on your 'Income and Expenditure' which enables them to ring you and ask why you have Sky TV and why you are paying someone else more than them. Send them the suggested letter.

 

The CAB will not stop harassment I can assure you, it may stop for a while only. CAB will tell you if anyone rings or writes, tell them to contact CAB which they won't do. I prefer to tell them to s*d off.

 

If you have less than £100 per month disposable you should not be paying anything to anyone anyway. What if the boiler breaks down?

[victoria_siempre]

Hi RR

 

Avoid irreversible decisions. You can go down the CAB route to buy you some quiet time but this will only be temporary - the debts will be sold on eventually. The CAB route though implies to creditors that you genuinely can't pay.

 

Separate your problem into manageable chunks and think long term and positively.

 

 

1. Debts that are disputed should not be paid - they will disappear in 6 years
   
2. Debts that are enforceable might be paid at a rate you can afford which looks like £0 per month until your circumstances improve. If they take you court they'll only get £1 and what's their interest in doing that?
   

So, the CAB route may be a temporary respite but in the end you must be strong and positive.

 

Love to all members of this site

 

vic

[coledog]

Just to add - only send a zero payment letter about debts you are NOT disputing and it may be worth adding 'Without Admission of Liability' above the To Whom it may concern, this is better than Without Prejudice (as you may in future want to prove that you have sent the letter).

 

Keep copies in case someone in future contacts you about the debt and you can prove that you sent this to the Original Creditor.

[Rocky Roadster]

Thanks everyone,

I am going to leave my decision until Monday, (that's the way my mind works now, best not to give in to the panic feeling if you can avoid it), and I will probably stay as I am, but use CAB to get specific areas of advice as I do with NDL.

Thank you all. best wishes,

RR

[Guest HeftyHippo]

stay away from CAB, in my experience they are incomptent. if they demand they deal with all your debts, or none, that should make you wonder.

 

In my case, iat te beginning of my battle, I had what I thought was a Non-conforming default notice, and i had rad on here, butn ot u8nderstood, that it meant if the bank closed the account, they would lose the righ to the money still owed.

 

I asked CAB what the legal position was. They said they would discuss it with a solicitor. What did they do? Wrote to the bank, told them that I thought the DN wsa non-conforming, gave the reasons, and that I now thought I didnt owe them anything, and asked for their comments. The bank wrote bank and said I was wrong on all of it. The CAB then wrote to me and said I was incorrect and I did owe all the money!

 

Luckily, the bank had already closed the account, and my position was not compromised, but if the bank had realised the mistake they had made with the DN, and hadn't closed the account, they could've issued a new DN and then closed the account.

 

Not only were they negligent in telling my creditor my legal position, they also didnt get an independent legal view as I requested, and as they promised. If they has told me they would ask the bank what they thought, I would have declined. After all, the bank had told me what they thought many times already.

 

You could go to Payplan or CCCS who will both help you draw up a payment plan and will negotiate with the lenders. FREE. They will take a lot of pressure of you in the beginning. Yu can go it alone later if you like. Neither will weed out the enforceable debts from those that aren't though. But they will get them all off your back whilst you work in the background checking the legalities. All the lenders will cooperate with both Payplan and CCCS. The National Debt helpline are also very good but it can be difficult to get through

[twofoot]

Just to reiterate. It is not a crime to be in debt and if you don't own your house you have the upper hand. Take control and tackle each case individually on here with a seperate thread. Worse case sinario is a ccj which is not big deal as your credit status is shot anyway. The creditors will not make you bankrupt as it costs them a small fortune though they will threaten it. If you do get ccj's you'll be ordered to pay a paltry sum of a tenner amonth or even less, and provided you don't default there is nothing else they can do. Don't worry about it as most court claims can be fought and won anyway. Take the bull by the horns and you'll soon be willing the next threatening letter to arrive so you can get into the scumbags that sent it. You'll be amazed how easy it gets after a short time of ping pong. Chin up! NEVER SPEAK ON THE PHONE TO DCA's. Keep records of everything.

[Rocky Roadster]

Thanks twofoot,

 

It is hard to stay strong, the b******s try to grind you down. Thanks for the boost.

 

One of my main worries at the moment is Natwest who I owe an overdraught of £6000 and a loan of £4000 and have given me 28 days to authorise a money advisor.

Can the overdraft be challenged? I can challenge the loan but it was recent (4 years) and I am sure that the CCA will comply. I have offered to pay £10 a month but they won't accept this. Meanwhile Triton are writing to me.

 

Don't panic Mr Manring!

 

RR

[coledog]

Don't be threatened by the likes of NatWest, tell them you have taken advice, you have worked out your income and expenditure and your priorities and current circumstances come first. You will report them to the appropriate authorities if they continue to harass you. They have no right to ask you for further information or tell you what to do.

[PriorityOne]

In support of previous comment, don't bother with CAB. They've given you cack advice so far.

 

I have never dealt with an outside agency in my life and have always handled my own debt issues.... it really isn't as horrendous as you think. They cannot take what you don't have... it's as simple as that and if you don't own property, the liklihood of anyone trying to make you bankrupt is small, as they have nothing to gain from doing it. I've been in one helluva lot more debt than you and do own property... stay strong

 

As for Natwest not accepting your token payment of £10... that's rubbish. Send it anyway (by rec. delivery) and they'll soon acccept it. You then have the start of a paper trail that shows you've tried your best should this go any further. If this overdraft includes an amount of unlawful charges, you can also set the ball rolling to re-claim these and bring the debt down. If you think there are unlawful charges in there, send a SAR to see what they are.... it's a legal request for info. and Natwest will have to comply with it. Keep sending those monthly £10 payments at the same time and you will strengthen your position very quickly...

 

[Rocky Roadster]

Thanks everyone.

 

I appreciate your support.

 

RR

[Guest HeftyHippo]

personally, I would stall them for a while whilst I looked at which debts were enforceable. Simply tell anyone that sks that you are getting advice.

 

make a list of any that have issued Default Notices (not notice of default sums), then check on here if those DNs are valid. Hopefully some of them won't be.

 

Then look at the agreements you have and see if they are enforceable.

 

You can do that now, before you decide who to talk to. simply post up the agreements, and DNs on this site after removing name and address account & reference numbers and barcodes (which contain a reference number to idenity you).

 

The CAB and PayPlan and CCCS will not check enforcabilit etc, they will assume they are enforceable and payable.

 

You will start to get an idea of your legal position within a few days.