Imperial Consolidated/Orion Asset/Merit - adding 8% statutory interest to old ccj,

[the tinkerman]

Hi All

Can anyone shed any light on this please,

 

Is this the law that DCA or OC use to add statutory interest after judgement

The Late Payment of Commercial Debts (Interest) Act 1998

or is there a different law for DCA and OC.

 

If it is the same law they use, then as I see it they can only apply statutory

interest it if it states so in the Original Terms & Conditions of your agreement

please correct me if I am wrong.

 

 

Further more The Late Payment of Commercial Debts (Interest) Act 1998 THEN GOES ONTO STATE!

"This Act came into force in 1998 as amended in 2002 to provide some measures of relief for companies of all sizes. The provisions of the Act allow UK businesses, for all contracts created on or after 7 August 2002 , to charge interest on late payments and debt recovery costs for clients and customers that have exceeded payment terms agreed by the parties.

The effect of this legislation allows businesses to charge 8% above the Bank of England base rate set on a twice-yearly basis and debt recovery compensation of up to £100 on each overdue order"

 

SO

would you agree from the above that if your Original CCA was before the 7 August 2002 then neither a DCA or an OC should be adding Statutory interest after judgement .

 

 

Any clarification on this would be much appreciated

[AndyOrch]

Is it a commercial debt Tinks?

 

 

Andy

[the tinkerman]

No just a normal CCA.

 

The judgement back in Sept 2000 states " it is therefore ordered that you must pay £11600 for debt ( and interest to date of judgement ) and £370 for costs,

 

You must pay the claimant a total of £11970 by instalments of £5 per month".

 

Then at the bottom at the left hand side in a box it states

 

Notes for the Defendant.

 

Along with other jargon it says

 

If Judgement is for £5000 or more or is in respect of a debt that attracts contractual

or statutory interest for late payment the claimant maybe entitled to further interest.

 

As far as I am aware there could not have been any interest being applied to this CCJ debt until it was sold to the now DCA back in 2002 as it was sold for £11800 so the debt must have been reducing and I never received anything from the OC or their solicitor after the judgement to say any more interest was being added.

 

But then I received a letter from the DCA in Oct 04 stating

 

We clarify where a judgement has been secured with a minimum balance of £5000 the Court permits a statutory rate of interest to be applied to the account from the date of the County Court Judgement at the rate of 8% per annum, Hence the debt now stands today at £21000

 

So were would you say I stand on this and what is the difference between statutory and contractual interest.

 

I have to go back to Court next month if I want to Challenge this, and when I was in Court earlier on this month I got the impression the Judge though they had a right to collect this statutory interest,

 

but then again that is one of the reasons it is going back to Court because the Judge said he was not given any time to read the notes and my evidence was based on as he called them " TECHNICALITIES "! so really I need hard facts here if I am to succeed.

[AndyOrch]

No just a normal CCA.

 

 

Whats normal, Loan ,credit card?

 

Have you a copy of the CCA you need to check it to see if refers to post Judgment interest.

 

The act you quoted as far as I'm aware refers to business to business charges on late outstanding debts The Late Payment of Commercial Debts (Interest) Act 1998

 

 

Regards

 

Andy

[ScarletPimpernel]

Unless the DCA has been to court to get a variation of the judgment order, they can't demand more money.

 

The letter appears to me to be a serious breach of the OFT Guidance, as it is clearly designed to mislead. Indeed, I suspect that if a company knows or should reasonably know that the debt does not relate to a consumer credit agreement rather than a commercial debt, that it may amount to fraud.

 

Which DCA is this?

[the tinkerman]

Hi All

sorry just a normal CCA loan agreement,

 

 

Point I am trying to get my head round here is if the "The Late Payment of Commercial Debts (Interest) Act 1998"

is not appertaining to a CCA where statutory or contractual interest can be added after judgement for debts over £5000,

then which Law does it come under surely there must be one or am I missing something here.

 

Here are the T & Cs

As far I can see no mention of post interest judgement unless I have missed something again

 

Thanks for the input so far

t&c's.pdf

Edited September 10, 2010 by the tinkerman
image too small to read changed to pdf

[Guest]

some info:

 

for eg http://www.insolvencyhelpline.co.uk/...unty_court.php

 

re interest:

 

 

 

 

'If a creditor has taken the debt to the county court, they may be able to add extra interest once a charging order is made. Interest cannot be added if:

• the debt is for an agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act. This includes most ordinary credit agreements, including bank overdrafts.
  

or

• the debt is less than £5,000 in total, even if it is not covered by the Consumer Credit Act.
  
• If the debt is more than £5,000 and not covered by the Consumer Credit Act, then interest is set by the court and runs at a standard rate.'
  

Also:

 

The County Courts (Interest on Judgment Debts) Order 1991

See for eg 2(3)

(3) Interest shall not be payable under this Order where the relevant judgment—

(a) is given in proceedings to recover money due under an agreement regulated by the

Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

 

ps

 

see also http://www.nationaldebtline.co.uk/england_wales/factsheet.php?page=18_interest_charges_on_a_consumer_credit_judgment

[the tinkerman]

You have just made my DAY Ford

 

Cheers for that.

[Belaflat]

Unless of course that post judgement interest was asked for and granted at the hearing.

It should state that on your paperwork but if what you have posted is all you have then they can whistle.

[the tinkerman]

Hi Belaflat

Still have a copy of the OC particulars of the claim nothing on that about post judgement

nor on the actual Original Judgement it just states::

 

it is therefore ordered that you must pay £11600 for debt ( and

interest

to date of judgement ) and £370 for costs,

 

You must pay the claimant a total of £11970 by instalments of £5 per month".

 

 

Then at the bottom at the left hand side in a box it states

 

Notes for the Defendant.

 

Along with other jargon it says

 

If Judgement is for £5000 or more or is in respect of a debt that attracts contractual

or statutory interest for late payment the claimant maybe entitled to further interest.

 

LOOKS LIKE HAPPY DAYS!

 

Just a hypothetical question though say it did say plus post judgement interest on the Original Judgement or on the T &Cs,but according to what Ford found for me

http://www.insolvencyhelpline.co .uk/...unty_court.php

 

Where it states

 

 

• If the debt is
  more
  than £5,000 and not covered by the Consumer Credit Act, then interest is set by the court and runs at a standard rate.'
  
  

Also:

 

The County Courts (Interest on Judgment Debts) Order 1991

See for eg 2(3)

(3) Interest shall not be payable under this Order where the relevant judgment—

(a) is given in proceedings to recover money due under an agreement regulated by the

Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

So one would assume by that, If the debt is

more

than £5,000 and

IS

covered by the Consumer Credit Act therefore would the OC not be acting illegally by either putting post judgement interest clause in the T & Cs or asking for post interest to be granted at the original CCJ hearing.

 

Or am I missing something here.

[Guest]

Civil Proc. Rule 70, 6 states that 'The County Courts (Interest on Judgment Debts) Order 1991 specifies when interest may be claimed on county court judgment debts.)'

 

the 91 order states for eg

 

2.—(1) Subject to the following provisions of this Order, every judgmentdebt under a relevant judgment shall, to the extent that it remainsunsatisfied, carry interest under this Order from the date on which therelevant judgment was given.

(2) In the case of a judgment or order for the payment of a judgmentdebt, other than costs, the amount of which has to be determined at alater date, the judgment debt shall carry interest from that later date.

(3) Interest shall not be payable under this Order where the relevantjudgment—

(a)is given in proceedings to recover money due under an agreementregulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974..............

 

 

Edited September 11, 2010 by Ford

[Belaflat]

There is your answer....as Ford has posted which confirms what you are thinking.

They cannot add interest.

[the tinkerman]

Any one shed any light on this one for me please

 

I quoted the 2006 amendment to the CCA 1974 sec 130A to the Judge at my last Hearing thinking this may help my cause,

but now I know with my CCJ being in 2000 this act does probably not apply to my CCJ but all the same the Judge and the Claimants Solicitor shot me down in flames by quoting

Section 7 of this act were it states:

 

"This section does not apply in relation to post-judgement interest which is required to be paid by virtue of any of the following

Section 74 of the County Courts Act 1984" and I could not come back with anything because I did not know what this act means

any Ideas please.

 

The judge had a look in his little book referring to this act to see if there was any leverage he could give to me but said no thus giving the impression the claimant had got me all ends up????

 

What is this "Section 74 of the County Courts Act 1984" and more to the point what does it mean and is it cause for concern in my case.

 

RE Last post Have googled this Act but cannot make head nor tail of it?

[Guest]

imo

s74 gives authority to the Lord Chancellor to make an applicable Order re 'interest on judgement debts', the 1991 Order being it.

[the tinkerman]

So same applies as per your previous posts and Belaflat under this order.

 

(3) Interest shall not be payable under this Order where the relevantjudgment—

(a)is given in proceedings to recover money due under an agreementregulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974......

 

plus no post judgement interest was asked for and granted at the hearing,so even with this(" Section 74 of the County Courts Act 1984")

thrown into the mix it is nothing more sinister as the Judge and there Solicitor was trying to make out.

[Guest]

imo

s74 gives authority for an applicable Order to be made regarding 'interest on judgment debts'. it gives the LC the power to Order when/how etc interest is applicable, in conformity with s74. any such Order is authoritative. by virtue of s74, the following applicable Order (SI) has been made - http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1991/1184/contents/made

and this Order is stipulated in CPR Practice Direction 70, 6.

Edited September 20, 2010 by Ford
typo

[dx100uk]

i've always read the situation with CCJ's on debts over £5k where it does NOT mention post judgemental interest in the judgement to be:

 

as long as you pay per the judgement and do not miss any payment, no interest can be charged.

if you miss payment, then 8% stat can be charged on the outstanding balance from the time you default on the judgement until you pay it off completely.

 

HTH

 

dx

[Belaflat]

I quote,

Interest and enforcement or other proceedings

 

4.—(1) Where a judgment creditor takes proceedings in a county court toenforce payment under a relevant judgment, the judgment debt shall ceaseto carry interest thereafter, except where those proceedings fail toproduce any payment from the debtor in which case interest shall accrueas if those proceedings had never been taken.

 

(2) For the purposes of this article“proceedings to enforce payment under a relevant judgment” include any proceeding for examining or summoning a judgment debtoror attaching a debt owed to him, but do not include proceedings underthe Charging Orders Act 1979(1);

 

(3) Where an administration order or an attachment of earnings order ismade, interest shall not accrue during the time the order is in force.

 

I think this is clear enough

[Guest]

Out of interest, re 1991 Order, 'contractual interest' etc, see this HL case below for an eg?

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld200102/ldjudgmt/jd011025/fair-1.htm

 

Edited September 22, 2010 by Ford
typo

[Guest]

I quote,

 

 

I think this is clear enough

 

[sequenci]

I think someone wanted to see this:

 

http://www.statutelaw.gov.uk/legResults.aspx?LegType=All+Legislation&title=county+courts&Year=1991&searchEnacted=0&extentMatchOnly=0&confersPower=0&blanketAmendment=0&TYPE=QS&NavFrom=0&activeTextDocId=3229333&PageNumber=1&SortAlpha=0

 

The general rule

2. — (1) Subject to the following provisions of this Order, every judgment debt under a relevant judgment shall, to the extent that it remains unsatisfied, carry interest under this Order from the date on which the relevant judgment was given.

(2) In the case of a judgment or order for the payment of a judgment debt, other than costs, the amount of which has to be determined at a later date, the judgment debt shall carry interest from that later date.

(3) Interest shall not be payable under this Order where the relevant judgment—

(a)is given in proceedings to recover money due under an agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974 F2 ;

 

So a creditor can try for CONTRACTUAL but not STATUTORY interest.

 

Read the HOL case, it's an eye opener!

[Guest]

So a creditor can try for CONTRACTUAL but not STATUTORY interest.

 

Read the HOL case, it's an eye opener!

 

subject to it (contractual interest post judgement) being provided for in the agreement? and then being awarded in the Judgement?

see Schedule 2 para 9a of the 1983 default notice Regulations which also seems to substantiate the former!? ps, and s130A CCA (as amended).

Edited October 8, 2010 by Ford
ps

[sequenci]

subject to it (contractual interest post judgement) being provided for in the agreement? and then being awarded in the Judgement?

see Schedule 2 para 9a of the 1983 default notice Regulations which also seems to substantiate the former!?

 

It's been argued succinctly by the creditors that they can claim it regardless of it being listed within the judgment, their argument is that it's within the terms & conditions! My personal understanding is the same as yours! My emploers argue that regardless of the judgment any post-judgment interest should be collected in a seperate 'pot' and not added to the original judgment debt. Although the HOL case states that post-judgment contractual interest can be claimed to our knowledge there has never been a case where a creditor tries to sue for it!

 

it's any interesting area for sure.

 

Best wishes,

 

Seq.

 

P.S Thanks for taking time to help on the forum, it's always fantastic to see knowledgeable folk on here! Not only for our users, but also for the site team too - I learn loads every day!

[the tinkerman]

Thanks Thanks Thanks been in hospital all night and it is very reassuring to come out

and see that people are going to to such lengths to help you out I cant thank you all enough.

 

can you please point me in the right direction for this HOL Case so I can have a read

sorry still feeling a bit groggy at the mo.

 

Much Appreciated.

[sequenci]

Hey there,

 

Hope you feel better soon!

 

The following fact-sheet outlines the basics in a way that's not too taxing!

 

http://www.nationaldebtline.co.uk/england_wales/factsheet.php?page=18_interest_charges_on_a_consumer_credit_judgment