Fast track - no explanation

[Brynogwy]

Hi all, I have just lost a case as an executor to my late mothers estate, basically she started a dance club 15 years ago with her own money and had a personal account where she kept the surplus. When times were bad she put in even more money to keep the night going. Throughout the 15 years she paid tax on the interest of the account. Every Christmas she paid, out of the profits for a dinner and a cash gift for everyone who attended throughout the year. When she died the group took her estate to court for any money within the account.

On the day of the hearing it was confirmed to the judge that

1 There was no committee.

2 There were no officials.

3 The account was held in my mother’s name.

4 No other individual contributed to start up costs.

5 At no time did anyone contribute towards the account apart from the obvious entrance fee and raffle tickets they may have purchased.

6 When the account was in a loss situation it was my mother who not only covered it but put in more to buy raffle prizes.

 

Yet he awarded the total amount held in the account to them.

He has not offered any explanation as to why, can anyone suggest my next move?

 

Many thanks in anticipation

[the_shadow]

Hi Brynogwy,

 

Welcome to CAG, I'll move this thread to the legal section for advice.

 

S.

[Brynogwy]

Anyone?

[Ganymede]

If the amount is a hefty sum and you have the time and money you could try appealing the decision?

[Brynogwy]

Hi Ganymede, thanks for the reply.

 

Having read a little more about the procedure on the web, i find that i may be able to challenge his verdict if he is wrong in a point of Law, as follows

 

"Decisions made by judges in higher courts are recorded, and judges on lower courts must use those decisions to help them make their own rulings in court cases."

 

However, if no explanation is given and (i am lead to believe there is no requirement to do so) no real evidence is required to make that decision, it seems a farce.

 

I'm just hoping that someone here may know a similar case with which i could mount an appeal.

Edited September 10, 2010 by Brynogwy
spelling

[Blondie40]

Are you able to prove that your Mother paid in the money to cover any losses?

 

Did she make anyone involved in the club aware she was doing this?

[Brynogwy]

Hi Blondie40

 

 

Yes i can prove it from all weekly paperwork and the plaintiff's witness statement acknowledge and confirm she did.

I asked in my witness statements and all paperwork leading up to the hearing if anyone could provide me with any evidence showing that anyone at any time contributed to her account apart from entrance or raffle tickets, no one responded to my request.

 

many thanks for your interest.

[Blondie40]

In that case I would say you have good grounds for an appeal, as you can prove your Mother paid her own money into the account.

 

Did the other side claim the money in the account was received from other sources and proved evidence of that/those source/s?

[Brynogwy]

No they made no claim or produced any evidence whatsoever.

[Blondie40]

No they made no claim or produced any evidence whatsoever.

 

 

Not clear on this but if they made no claim, how come a hearing was held? Something must have led to a case being heard in court.

 

Also a solicitor would have handle your Mother's estate. Did they act for her estate at the hearing? Did they give you any advice?

 

If they offered no evidence whatsoever, I find it hard to believe the Judge found in their favour.

[Brynogwy]

Sorry, they made no claim the money came from anywhere other than from my mother. No solicitor handled the case it was me they took to court as i was the executor.

 

Their only claim (unsubstantiated) was that my mother acted as the treasurer for the group, they also stated that without them she would not have been able to continue as they sold raffle tickets, collected the door money and called the bingo. For this my mother provided a Christmas gift over and above what she gave to anyone else, the ridiculous part was that the group made a collection (not from club funds) to purchase a gift for my mother as a "thank you" for all the work she did.

[Blondie40]

Sounds like a tricky one.

 

I take it the other members of the club were friends of your Mother. Judge may have taken the view that the money paid into the account by your Mother was a gift.

 

 

Sorry, they made no claim the money came from anywhere other than from my mother. No solicitor handled the case it was me they took to court as i was the executor.

 

Their only claim (unsubstantiated) was that my mother acted as the treasurer for the group, they also stated that without them she would not have been able to continue as they sold raffle tickets, collected the door money and called the bingo. For this my mother provided a Christmas gift over and above what she gave to anyone else, the ridiculous part was that the group made a collection (not from club funds) to purchase a gift for my mother as a "thank you" for all the work she did.

 

However not sure on why you have said "…they made no claim the money came from anywhere other than from my mother."

 

Then say "Their only claim (unsubstantiated) was that my mother acted as the treasurer for the group, they also stated that without them she would not have been able to continue as they sold raffle tickets, collected the door money and called the bingo."

 

I am a bit confused by that statement.

Edited September 11, 2010 by Blondie40

[Brynogwy]

Yes they were all friends.

 

Does that make a difference in law?

 

 

I am a bit confused by that statement."

 

which part?

 

They firmly acknowledge that the money used to start up the evening came from my mother.

[Blondie40]

Yes they were all friends.

 

Does that make a difference in law?

 

 

It would in effect be a mutual agreement between friends - which IMO would mean that the members of the group would hold a common share. If your mother offered to put up the money to start the group I don't see how that would give her (or her heirs) any prior claim on it. The only entitlement you would probably have would be to your mother's share.

 

 

I am a bit confused by that statement."

 

which part?

 

They firmly acknowledge that the money used to start up the evening came from my mother.

 

Sorry, understand now. You mother put up the money to start the evening and then the other members raised money for the group by selling raffle tickets, collecting door money and calling the bingo.

 

Their contribution was their time, your mother's was financial.

 

I would guess that your mother got a lot of enjoyment out of the club - as it ran for 15 years - perhaps that was more important to your mother than the money she put into it.

 

It could well be that the amount involved is substantial, which of course would be upsetting for yourself.

 

Have you contacted the court to see why the Judge made such a decision?

[Brynogwy]

Hi Blondie and thanks for your input on this matter.

 

Apart from the money my mother worked as MC throughout the night and sold tickets or called the bingo if others were not available. There is no doubt that these others "helped" make the night successful but they were bought gifts as an acknowledgement of this.

 

As my mother paid tax on the interest of this account would that not have any bearing?

 

I have written to the court but i am still awaiting a reply, but in all honesty i think the judge will just ignore it as he was an obnoxious, self opinionated individual who even failed to introduce himself.

 

 

again many thanks for your time.

[Brynogwy]

Forgot this bit

 

"It could well be that the amount involved is substantial, which of course would be upsetting for yourself."

 

My father, who is the heir to her estate also contributed his time and spent hundreds of pounds on fuel collecting raffle prizes over the years, but even though the judge was presented with every annual profit and loss statement for the 15 years which showed quite clearly that no money was ever taken out in expenses, when i asked if he would be allowed to claim this, he refused.

Edited September 12, 2010 by Brynogwy

[Blondie40]

Sounds like you lost out on the District Judge lottery with this one.

 

I get the impression at times that a judge will make a judgment based, not on the evidence presented in court, but on whether they feel the case should have been brought before the court. The Judge may have felt it was a matter that should have been settled between parties without using the court's (valuable in Judge's view) time. In your case as you defended this action the Judge probably felt you were wasting the court's time. It could be as simple as that.

 

However if you feel the Judgment was unfair then you should considered an appeal - perhaps you should seek legal advice from a solicitor on where you actually stand within the law. Something like this is a very grey area.

 

One point I do understand is the Judge not allowing your father to claim the fuel expenses incurred over the 15 years. If your father had wanted to claim these expenses he should have done so at the time, as you have said the group had annual profit and loss statements for those 15 years he could easily have requested some help towards his expenses during that period but chose not to do so.

 

Sorry I'm not able to be more helpful, but this is quite a tricky one.

[Brynogwy]

My father did not make a claim because he knew it was my mothers (their) money, not as the judge said, belongs to the group.

 

ps Doesn't the fact she paid tax on the interest make any difference?

 

 

Thanks again for your help though.

[Blondie40]

 

ps Doesn't the fact she paid tax on the interest make any difference?

 

 

No, because the court decided the money belongs to the group and therefore would have over the 15 years, the group paid the tax on the interest.

 

You have too look at it this way.

 

If the court decided the money in the account belongs to your mother, this would also include the interest received on the money in the account. Which would also include interest on payments made into the account from funds raised by the group as a whole. Would it be right that your mother (or heir to her estate) gained the interest on that money raised by the group?

 

The judge's decision in effect has benefited all the members of the group, which also includes your father as a member of that group.

 

Something I found interesting is you have said the group had annual profit and loss statements for the 15 years. If these statements were given to all the members of the group it would suggest to me that some kind of formal arrangement existed between the members.

 

IMO I think the decision made by the Judge to be the right one. However can understand your dismay at the lack of an explanation and also at the attitude of the Judge.

[sir_gilmour]

Hi

Welcome to The Consumer Action Group.

 

 

I am just letting you know that as you haven't had any replies to your post yet, it might be better if you post your message again in an appropriate sub-forum. You will get lots of help there.

 

Also take some time to read around the forum and get used to the layout. It is a big forum and takes a lot of getting used to.

 

 

Once you start to find your way, you will soon realise that it is fairly easy to get round and to get the help you need.

 

It can be bit confusing at first.