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WHY Can'T I charge Barclays 25 GBP a day for UNAUTHORIZED Withrdrawls from My Account


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Hi all

I've had a personal loan (OK I know it was a bad deal) from Barclays --and this was paid off REGULARLY at 273 GBP a month until the last month when the FINAL payment brought the total down to the final payment of 51 GBP.

 

No probs

 

- BUT on checking my Bank statement they have STILL taken 273 GBP out of my Bank account and notified the Loan Account that it's 220 GBP OVERPAID.

 

So at great expense I get through to some HORRIBLE Indian Call centre -- (those things are another story) and I after much hassle explain the problem.

 

The Woman at the other end finally got what I wanted -- her English wasn't that good BTW -- and said OK We have to send a FAX and the Standing order will be stopped BUT it will TAKE 5 WORKING DAYS till we can pay the money back into your account.

 

Now I don't get paid till MONDAY (today is Thursday). _

 

So What am I expected to eat this weekend -- apart from the fact that if I made an unauthorized overdraft (I can't as I don't have the facilities) the Bank would charge me 25 GBP a day.

 

Can I reclaim 25 GBP a day plus the cost of sorting this out since it is OBVIOUSLY THEIR ERROR -- the loan was taken out for XX months and has been DULY DISCHARGED properly - yet I'm now in a position where I'm in a foreign city WITHOUT ANY MONEY due to the BANKS incompetance.

 

(Actually its not as bad as that but IT COULD BE).

 

Surely I must be able to claim SOMETHING since they are obviously STEALING MONEY from my account without any reason whatsoever other than sheer incompetance.

 

 

Cheers

jimbo

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I don't see why you can't get some kind of compensation, and any expenses you incur because of their incompetence, but that takes a while, and won't help in your present predicament. Have you spoken to someone in a senior position? Or are all calls directed through the Indian Call centre?In any case, surely the direct debit guarantee should come into play here, where they guarantee to put right what they did wrong.I can't see what help they've been at all

I am a lawyer, but I am an academic lawyer. I do not practice as a barrister or solicitor. You should consult a practising Solicitor BEFORE taking any Court or other action

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If the payments were made by SO rather than DD then the DD guarantee doesn't apply does it? A SO payment is a set amount per month so Barclays would accept the payment as it originates from the customer's bank. I would expect them to alter a DD payment to reflect the final reduced balance, but not a SO because they can't.

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Just my take on this.

 

A standing order is set up by the customer and will continue until countermanded by the customer.

 

What I think you should have done was once the final £273 had been paid was for you to vary the last SO to pay the £51

If you are asked to deal with any matter via private message, PLEASE report it.

Everything I say is opinion only. If you are unsure on any comment made, you should see a qualified solicitor

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Aha!! That'll teach me to read the post more carefully!! Original poster should have altered the S.O., yes. In this case then, it appears not to be the bank's faultAlthough...........people do get mixed up between S.O. and D.D. and I was assuming he/she meant D.D. Sorry

I am a lawyer, but I am an academic lawyer. I do not practice as a barrister or solicitor. You should consult a practising Solicitor BEFORE taking any Court or other action

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I am afraid it is a case of "do as we say not as we do".

 

Banks are a law unto themselves.

 

I would be tempted to go down to your local branch and kick up a fuss, demand to speak to the manager, he or she surely has the power to forward the money to you pending the return of the SO?

 

It does beggar belief that had the money not been there to pay the SO you would be charged an arm and a leg!

Advice given is my opinion only, I am not a legal or financial expert (far from it).

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Hi there

When the loan was set up it specified XXX payments at 273 GBP per month and a FINAL payment of 51 GBP so it actually had nothing to do with me arranging anything.

 

Their System should have been able to take care of this;

 

My GRIPE here is TWO FOLD

 

a) Should it really take 5 WORKING DAYS to get money from BARCLAYS ITSELF to anothe BARCLAYS account I.E Mine. It's not as if there were money laundering involved and the money isn't coming from another Non Barclays Source.

 

b) The Bank will charge YOU 25 GBP at the drop of a hat if you go over your limit -- but what happens here when they have UNJUSTIFIABLY taken money out of my account -- Apart from the possibility of No Money for a few days (I have a parachute account but they don't have to know that) what would happen if a payment comes through over the weekend that would cause the account to go below zero.

 

Would I get the "Refer to drawer" and other charges -- none of which was MY fault.

 

It's ALWAYS THE SAME with these institutions --one law for them and another for us.

 

And these days 5 WORKING days is REDICULOUS for this type of transaction -- how do Barclays Investments and their Stock Exchange Brokers manage --HUGE accounts are settled electronically DAILY.

 

I want my 125 GBP from them for 5 days of "Unauthorized Borrowing" from my account but I don't think I have much chance of getting it.

 

Cheers

jimbo

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Aha!! That'll teach me to read the post more carefully!! Original poster should have altered the S.O., yes. In this case then, it appears not to be the bank's faultAlthough...........people do get mixed up between S.O. and D.D. and I was assuming he/she meant D.D. Sorry

 

 

The SO was set up by the Bank -- XXX payments followed by a final one of yy to clear it so NOT MY FAULT at all.

 

Cheers

jimbo

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So it was a direct debit, then and not a standing order! In that case they should abide by the DD guarantee and repay the excess without delay. Can you get to a Barclays branch? You said you were overseas.

I am a lawyer, but I am an academic lawyer. I do not practice as a barrister or solicitor. You should consult a practising Solicitor BEFORE taking any Court or other action

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Hi there

IF it were THE OTHER WAY AROUND Barclays would be charging me 25 GBP a DAY for unauthorized overdraft charges -- 5 days * 25 = 125 GBP.

 

Why on earth should I pay when its the BANKS mistake

 

(Probably just because it IS a bank).

 

Actually the statement DOES say SO on it and not DD so it's a Standing order.

 

The contract has 23 payments of xxx followed by a FINAL one of yy to clear the loan so EVERYWAY you look at it its the BANKS error.

 

I still also find it INCREDIBLE that the Call centre has to GENERATE A FAX to send to the LOAN dept -- then it takes ANOTHER 5 DAYS to repay the money.

 

Disgusting. Especially in this electronic age.

 

We'd gett better service I'm sure from THE MAFIA -- at least their payments don't take 5 days to clear !!!.

 

 

Cheers

jimbo

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If it's an SO, you're in control of it - yes, they can set the SO on your behalf (my letting agent did this for me - they print the mandate, I sign, they submit to bank), but ultimately it's your responsibility to manage an SO - they can't change it. Just as it's my responsibility to ensure my rent SO is canceled when I end my tenancy (they will actually charge me for returning the money if I don't)

You can complain, and see what they say, but I don't know how far you'll get I'm afraid.

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Hi there

Did you READ the post -- the contract was for XX months at yy GBP and then a FINAL one of zz GBP.

 

I'm not sure what more I could have done -- this is an OPEN and SHUT contract of X payments of Y and a FINAL payment of Z.

 

You don't write an unlimited SO against a fixed term loan.

 

However you look at it it's the BANKS error and if I hadn't checked my statement I'd probably have been EVEN further in the hole.

 

Cheers

jimbo

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I don't think there is the need to be rude - it's quite clear that I read your post, and I then gave my take on it.

it remains that a Standing Order is your responsibility, regardless of who set it up.

 

I don't generally like quoting WIKIPEDIA, but it actually summarizes it quite well...

 

Difference with direct debit

 

Standing orders are distinct from direct debits; both are methods of setting up repeated transfers of money from one account to another, but they operate in different ways. The fundamental difference is that standing orders send payments arranged by the payer, while direct debits are specified and collected by the payee.

 

  • A standing order can only be set up and modified by the payer, and is for amounts specified by the payer to be paid at specified times (usually a fixed amount at a specified interval). The amount can be paid into any bank account, which need not belong to an organisation vetted by the payer's bank.
  • A direct debit requires the payer to instruct the bank to honour direct debit requests from a specified payee; the payee can then take a direct debit for any amount at any time. The payer has no direct control over these payments, but can cancel the direct debit at any time, with no reason required, and require the return of disputed payments. It is not possible to authorise an individual to take direct debits; only organisations that have a contract with the payer's bank, or have been vetted by it, can do this. For details and country differences, see direct debit.

Also see HERE (The body that overseas the payments industry)

 

Why do many companies seem to prefer Direct Debits to standing orders?

 

A standing order instruction is for a fixed amount. The customer must sign a new instruction whenever the amount changes, however Direct Debit Instructions are for variable amounts, which means that the company simply informs the customer in advance if the amount of the payment changes the customer doesnt have to sign a new instruction each time saving time and adminstration costs for the company.

 

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You can't charge them because they would never enter into an agreement with such a term included.

 

Without getting into arguments over pointless issues.

 

If you have overpaid then you are entitled to your money back and I would say some form of compensation for your inconvenience. If you get nowhere with their call centre drone, then you need to get in touch with someone at a higher level and kick up a fuss. Don't take no for an answer, be polite but firm

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If it's a standing order, then YOU have to alter the last payment amount NOT the bank. They will pay whatever the standing order says they have to pay. They cannot alter a standing order unless you tell them to. If you didn't tell them to alter it and take the last, reduced payment, then it's your fault. You may not like this, but that doesn't make it any less true. They're not mind readers. If it was a DD then you would have grounds for complaint. As it is the debit was not unauthorised, YOU authorised it, and you didn't alter it. It would appear then, that you are stuck with it

I am a lawyer, but I am an academic lawyer. I do not practice as a barrister or solicitor. You should consult a practising Solicitor BEFORE taking any Court or other action

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Hi all

Rudeness wasn't intended - sometimes posts can get interpreted differently to what the author intended of course.

 

What I can't understand is that if a CLEAR CAST IRON contract for XX payments at yyy GBP a month plus a FINAL payment of z GBP due on xx/yy/zz is agreed and the Bank obviously have BROKEN this then surely I should get recompense for their error.

 

Is it REALLY MY responsibilty to tell the Bank when a personal Loan made by the same Bank has been fully paid off when the contract clearly states LAST PAYMENT of yy due on the relevant date where yy was the last remaining piece of loan - (50 GBP instead of the 273 GBP during the previous life of the loan)

 

If I had a Mortgage for example is it my responsibilty to ensure that at the end of the term I'm STILL making payments to it. The Mortgage company will mark it as paid off.

 

I can't understand why some people here think I'm in the wrong on this one since the Contract is PERFECTLY clear.

 

Cheers

jimbo

Edited by jimbo45
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Hi there

Did you READ the post -- the contract was for XX months at yy GBP and then a FINAL one of zz GBP.

 

I'm not sure what more I could have done -- this is an OPEN and SHUT contract of X payments of Y and a FINAL payment of Z.

 

 

Have you still got this in writing? if so, write a letter of complaint (by rec. delivery). They will then be obliged to issue a response and justify themselves against what you have in writing.

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Jimbo - do you have a copy of the original SO that you set up with the bank?

 

If so, it should clearly state your intentions of xxx amount being taken per month, for the number of months required (if you were able to stipulate that) and also a final SO payment at a reduced amount. If you can prove that this was the intention and was clearly stated at the time the SO was set up, then you should be able to reclaim any additional costs to your account that were incurred due to your instructions not being followed.

 

The bank should reimburse you for these, however, it might take a trip to see your bank manager in the first instance, accompanied by the relevant documents, to launch a complaint for compensation. This situation shouldn't leave you out of pocket if it was the bank's error. Claiming compensation for inconvenience, rather than related costs might be difficult though - I would imagine it would have to end up going to a small claims court if Barclays were unwilling to offer some kind of compensation settlement.

 

I agree that it's unfair - I was one of the lucky few who managed to reclaim unfair charges, but unfortunately, the banks usually win out in these cases.

 

Best of luck though!

 

H.

 

 

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Hi there

I still have the initial agreement.

 

However the really irritating thing in all this is that because of this wretched extra amount they took out of the account together with around 800 GBP of Council Tax my account went around 8 GBP negative and the 800 GBP council tax cheque has been returned marked "Insufficient Funds".

 

Now apart from getting a black mark on this one I've got to go through the whole hassle of dealing with the Council -- who probably won't believe me because they've probably heard similar stories before -- and are very unlikely to accept another cheque.

 

From where I am at the moment I can't use their ONLINE payment site --seems only to be able to take payments from the UK for some reason -- so I *could* get a summons etc etc all due to an error by the Bank --apart from having a "dubious cheque" in my name being recorded.

 

Surely if my account DID NOT go negative which it wouldn't have done the cheque would have been paid.

 

At the very least I want all the charges associated with "returned cheque" dropped and an apology from the Bank so I can clear my name with the Council.

 

Incidentally the Phone Call centres run by these Banks are TOTALLY HORRENDOUS -- people just seem to mouth phrases from scripts and haven't a clue on how to deal with the problem or get it fixed. Absolute 100% waste of time.

 

Cheers

jimbo

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Don't do anything over the 'phone.... it'll get you nowhere. It needs to be in writing all the way. My friend has just experienced a similar scenario and has now had to cancel most of her DDs to avoid them bouncing and incurring charges.... because too much was taken out by another company when they shouldn't have taken any!

 

Put a complaint down in writing and go from there.... but don't expect a fast response.

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