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Rossendales did not send a bailiff to my house but sent a receptionist instead to claim 1st + 2nd visit fees for council tax arrears. Therefore I believe that these fees (and maybe the visits) are invalid.

Rossendales referred to this receptionist by name several times in written correspondence as their "first call bailiff" and paperwork that she posted had her signature next to 'Bailiff of Rossendales Ltd'.

 

Forget about the fees for a minute.

 

Can the 1st and 2nd visits 'with a view to seizing goods' be made by a person that does not hold a valid bailiff certificate? I think not.

 

The first visit I received from a certificated bailiff is the visit that incurred fees of £201.00.

 

Can certificated bailiffs charge van fee, waiting fee(lol), and levy fees(lol) worth £201.00 on their very first visit, or would that be bad sport?

Edited by Dhimmiwit
more sp's

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If the fees are unlawful then you dont have to pay them.


Professional property investor and conveyancer

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If the fees are unlawful then you dont have to pay them.

 

I've already paid them. Just found out today that they are unlawful.

 

Oh, I'll get it back alright, and the rest!

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Can the 1st and 2nd visits 'with a view to seizing goods'

 

For making a visit to premises with a view to levying distress (whether the levy is made or not):

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Can the 1st and 2nd visits 'with a view to seizing goods'

 

For making a visit to premises with a view to levying distress (whether the levy is made or not):

 

 

Mmmmmm, the uncertificated receptionist's paperwork that she posted states "by virtue of an authority given to me by Burnley, Pendle and Rossendale Mags in a liability Order dated Jan 28,2010 I have this day re-attended with a view to seizing goods for the debt and costs owing to Pendle Borough Council as stated in the said liability order"

 

She had authority?

Edited by Dhimmiwit

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If she is not certified then i would imagine she could not impose these threats.. Check the name on the data base here

 

http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/CertificatedBailiffs/

 

Oh she was never ever certificated eggy, I know that for a 100% fact. I just need to know if an uncertificated person can act on behalf of a bailiff firm "with a view to seizing goods" (as she stated) and if these visits can be treated as the 1st and 2nd visits (not necessarily incurring a fee) which would lead to my next query-

 

The questions in the opening post are the ones that I would love some help with ie-

 

Can certificated bailiffs charge van fee, waiting fee(lol), and levy fees(lol) worth £201.00 on their very first visit?

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She had authority?

 

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld200607/ldhansrd/text/70420w0001.htm

 

Lord Lucas asked Her Majesty’s Government:

    Whether a person who represents himself to be a certificated bailiff, but is not, and by doing so obtains a payment or goods from a debtor, commits a fraud within the meaning of Sections 1 to 5 of the Fraud Act 2006; and, if so, which sections of the Act apply; and whether it would be right for the police to claim that such an action is a civil and not a criminal matter. [HL2744]

Baroness Scotland of Asthal: The Fraud Act 2006 created a new general offence of fraud. This can be committed by three means, one of which is by false representation. Fraud by false representation is set out in Section 2 of the Act. Where a person dishonestly makes a false representation and intends, by making the representation, to make a gain for himself or another, or cause a loss to another, or expose another to a risk of loss, that person will be committing an offence. A person who dishonestly represents to be a certificated bailiff, but is not, is likely to be committing an offence under this section. It will be necessary to show that the person was acting dishonestly in making the false representation, as well as that they intended to make a gain or cause a loss. It is immaterial whether they actually obtained a payment or goods from a debtor.

The decision on whether to investigate a crime rests solely with the police, who will take into account available resources, national and local policing priorities, the likely eventual outcome and the competing priorities of fraud and other criminal cases already under investigation. Such operational issues are a matter for the chief officer of the force concerned.

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Can certificated bailiffs charge van fee, waiting fee(lol), and levy fees(lol) worth £201.00 on their very first visit?

 

no the only fee they can charge is the levy fee

 

Oh she was never ever certificated eggy, I know that for a 100% fact. I just need to know if an uncertificated person can act on behalf of a bailiff firm "with a view to seizing goods" (as she stated) and if these visits can be treated as the 1st and 2nd visits (not necessarily incurring a fee) which would lead to my next query

 

no the visits cant be treated as anything as she should not have been there in the first place with or without fees

 

which would lead to the 3 visit by the certificated bailiff being classed as the first visit for the purpose of fees as this new 1st visit incurred a levy fee the bailiff company have lost all rights to collect any further visit fees

 

hope you understand that not quite sure i understand it myself

I think its one of my if i was talking you would understand it

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With council tax enforcement ONLY a certificated bailiff can levy upon goods.

 

The purpose of the visit is to "levy upon goods" and is therefore NOT to remove the goods. For this reason, the bailiff should NOT be applying a removal fee at the SAME time as a levy fee.

 

Did the bailiff "levy" upon goods and if so, what did he levy upon?

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With council tax enforcement ONLY a certificated bailiff can levy upon goods.

 

The purpose of the visit is to "levy upon goods" and is therefore NOT to remove the goods. For this reason, the bailiff should NOT be applying a removal fee at the SAME time as a levy fee.

 

Did the bailiff "levy" upon goods and if so, what did he levy upon?

 

Where do I start Tomtubby?

 

Firstly, goods were never levied upon.

 

I began asking questions about the fees charged, and eventually a fabricated list of levied goods (I may have to collate and pm the whole saga to you) were sent to me consisting of items that I do not and never have possessed.

The goods "levied upon" were -

1) Unmarked White Microwave.

2) Unmarked Computer System

3) Coffee table

4) Colour TV and remote

5) Wooden framed mirror

 

My naivety (I had not at this point discovered this forum) led me to allow the certificated bailiff into my house, but only after she had handed to me a document with charges on that reflected fees such as 'levy fee' 'van fee' and 'waiting fee'.

 

An independent witness was there for the whole12 minutes (for which she had charged an hours waiting time 'applicable after the first hour' before she had even set foot in the house). Here is his statement-

 

Dear Pendle Council/Rossendales,

 

 

On the 11th of April 2010 I was asked to go to ** ******* ****** to show Mr ********a small ********* job that needed doing the following day.

On the Morning of the 12th April I set off to Mr ********'s house.

I arrived at Mr *********'s house at approximately 09:30. Mr*********had made himself a cup of tea and made one for me.

After we had finished our drinks, Mr *********looked at the time and said "it's Quarter to ten, better make a start" to which I agreed, but as I had been informed that the client had young children in the house that needed dressing and feeding there was no great hurry.

He picked his***** ****** up and I offered to carry some of his tools that were in a bucket, which I did.

Mr********* shouted goodbye to his son who was in the front room with his friend.

We left the house and Mr ********* locked the back door behind him.

As we were leaving the back yard a lady pulled up in a small white van, wound her window down and said "Mr ********?" to which Mr ********replied "Hello, yeah, that's me" The lady then introduced herself as a bailiff and said "can I have a word with you, this will only take a minute" Mr ********* said "Sure but it'll have to be quick" and the bailiff parked her van around the front.

While the bailiff was parking her van Mr********* explained to me that he owed just over £200 in Council Tax that he hadn't gotten round to paying.

As the bailiff came around the corner I joked to her that Mr ********* had 'Run off' which, after a moment of hesitation and seeing Mr******** she seemed to find mildly amusing.

The bailiff met Mr ********* at the yard entrance and she asked if he knew what 'this is about'. He replied that he owed about £200 in Council tax and that he was trying to find enough work to pay it. The Bailiff said that he had had plenty of time to come to an arrangement to pay it and said that the amount was now £441 with fees as she handed Mr ********* a document with the amount £441.42 written on it.

Mr ********* looked at it, showed me, and said "that's just set me back weeks" and said to her " you'd better come in so that we can sort this out"

Mr********then unlocked the door and we all entered. The bailiff stood at the door to the kitchen and I stood beside her.

Mr******** explained that he didn't understand how the amount he owed had nearly doubled.

The bailiff then told him that the amount would keep rising unless he paid the full amount in cash.

She told him that he had to pay the full amount in cash by Friday that week and that he must ring her to arrange to meet her with the cash by 5pm Friday. The bailiff informed Mr ******** that if she wanted to she could take his possessions, but she said that there really wasn't any point in this as "that old television and computer aren't worth anything"

She kept asking "when are you going to ring me" and he said " I'll ring you Friday, I'll have to see if I can borrow enough money by then"

The bailiff's demands became more aggressive as she demanded that she MUST have the cash by Friday or the fees would continue to mount up with every visit, she asserted that more fees would be added on if he did not get in touch with her and pay her the cash by 5pm Friday of that week.

Mr ******** continued to assure her that he would have her cash by Friday and that he would ring her on the Friday to arrange meeting her.

The bailiff eventually seemed to accept this and left the house.

In the short time that the bailiff was there, she did not make any written notes whatsoever.

I recall Mr ******** remarking "it's nearly 10 now" as we left, I looked at my mobile phone and concurred.

The meeting could not have spanned more than 15 minutes.

 

Yours sincerely

 

**********

 

 

 

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Oldstyle TV's are being rejected by auction house. A microwave can be picked up in Argos for £20 so again this is a uslesss item on which to levy and would again be rejected by the auctioneers. That leaves a mirror and an unmarked computer. As the bailiff has not identified the computer it can be any worthless old computer. Frankly, I would consider this levy to not even be worth the paper on which it is written.

It addition it is unsigned. It would NOT cover the debt and bailiff fees and frankly, unless Rossendales are willing to remove the fees I would suggest that you make a FORMAL COMPLAINT to the council.

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Please do make a complaint, especially as I have just sent one throught to Pendle Council.

 

Pendle may well currently be defending their use of Rossendales, but unless people like us make them aware of any underhand tactics then they will indeed think everything is rosy...

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Please do make a complaint, especially as I have just sent one throught to Pendle Council.

 

Pendle may well currently be defending their use of Rossendales, but unless people like us make them aware of any underhand tactics then they will indeed think everything is rosy...

 

 

 

 

I'm in the middle of compiling a letter to Pendle Borough Council right now Pendledad.

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Bravo - I copied mine to Andrew Stephenson (our new MP) for good measure... you can google his email address if needed.

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Is it also worth mentioning to said MP what one of the excellent caggers on here said after a few freedom of information requests about how councils get a percentage of money bailiff company's collect get back ? Just a thought

 

Eggy 12

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eggy - is that a fact ? can you show me the link please ?

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eggy - is that a fact ? can you show me the link please ?

 

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?275666-what-do-you-think-of-this

 

this was posted by tomtubby in the tread i have linked to this post

I have made many Freedom of Information requests to local authorities for copies of Contracts with bailiffslink3.gif and it is astonishing to see how many councils are demanding a "kick back" from the bailifflink3.gif companies of a percentage of bailiff fees.

 

In effect this means that councils are making a PROFIT from enforcement. It is WRONG but with bailiff companies desperate for Contracts they will agree to anything.

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Thanks HW... hopefully if things go well in my current battle I will be gathering more information for the next step of my fight for trutch, justice and the, erm... proper way :razz:

Edited by Pendle_dad
typose ;-)

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They dont let us rest so nor should we them :)

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