Discount offer from 1st credit

[broccoli_greens]

Hi all,

 

I have received a couple of 25% off letters from 1st Credit but not responded to them. When the time ran out on the first offer, the second offer came and extended the deadline another month.

 

Is this part of a standard series of letters, and is there more to come?

 

Should I hold off before making my own counter offer for a FFS?

 

broc

[maroondevo52]

What is this regarding, broc ?

[harrassed senior]

Have you sent a CCA if applicable, because this is normally their response if they do not have an enforceable agreement.

[broccoli_greens]

Hi folks - thanks for the fast responses.

 

It's in relation to an HFC (formerly Marbles) credit card. I believe 1st Credit are acting on their behalf as I have not received an assignment notice.

 

I sent a CCA request last year and received a print-out of an unsigned agreement. From reading these forums, I was very confused about whehter this constituted full compliance with the Consumer Credit Act. I though that it did, given the later legislation (don't remember the details) which spelt out that a signature did not need to be present.

 

Long and the short of it is, I've no idea if they have a signed agreement. The account was opened in 2006 so I'm guessing not so long ago that an agreement wouldn't be available if they had a rummage in the depths....

 

Curious though that you mention this as a tactic when the CCA is missing...

 

broc

[debt4get]

if it was taken out in 2006 and is unsigned then i would put the account in dispute and tell them to go to hell...they do not have an agreement that is enforceable...send em this

ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE

 

Date:

 

Ref:

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Thank you for your letter of xx/xx/xx, the contents of which have been noted.

 

You have failed to respond to my legal request to supply me a true copy of the original Consumer Credit Agreement for the above account.

 

On **DATE** I made a formal request for a true signed agreement for the alleged account under consumer credit Act 1974 s77/8. This was signed for as delivered on the **DATE**

You have failed to comply with my request, and as such the account entered default on **DATE** (12+2 days after you made the initial request).

 

The document that you are obliged to send me is a true copy of the executed agreement that contained all of the prescribed terms, all other required terms and statutory notices and was signed by both your company and myself as defined in section 61(1) of CCA 74 and subsequent Statutory Instruments. If the executed agreement contained any reference to any other document, you are also obliged to send me a copy of that document. In addition a full statement of this account should have been sent to me detailing all debits and credits to the account.

 

Furthermore, you are aware that the Consumer Credit Act allows 12 working days for a request for a true copy of a credit agreement to be carried out before you/your client enters into a default situation.

 

This limit has expired.

 

As you are no doubt aware section 78(6) states:

 

If the creditor fails to comply with Subsection (1)

 

(a) He is not entitled , while the default continues, to enforce the agreement.

 

Therefore this account has become unenforceable at law.

 

As you have failed to comply with a lawful request for a true, signed copy of the said agreement and other relevant documents mentioned in it, Failed to send a full statement of the account and Failed to provide any of the documentation requested. You will also be aware of the CPUTR 2008 and the OFT's guidelines on debt collection which state under the title Deceptive and/or unfair methods - Examples of unfair practices are as follows - 2.8

 

(i) - 'Failing to investigate and/or provide details as appropriate, when a debt is queried or disputed, possibly resulting in debtors being wrongly pursued'

 

(k) - 'Not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonable queried or disputed debt'

 

Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS.

 

Furthermore I shall counterclaim that any such action constitutes unlawful harassment.

 

Please note you may also consider this letter as a statutory notice under section 10 of the Data Protection Act to cease processing any data in relation to this account with immediate effect.

 

This means you must remove all information regarding this account from your own internal records and from my records with any credit reference agencies.

Should you refuse to comply, you must within 21 days provide me with a detailed breakdown of your reasoning behind continuing to process my data.

 

It is not sufficient to simply state that you have a ‘legal right’; You must outline your reasoning in this matter and state upon which legislation this reasoning depends.

 

Should you not respond within 14 days I expect that this means you agree to remove all such data.

 

Furthermore you should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take ANY

Action against an account whilst it remains in dispute.

 

The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies.

 

* You may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

* You may not add further interest or any charges to the account.

* You may not pass the account to a third party.

* You may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency.

* You may not issue a default notice related to the account.

 

I reserve the right to report your actions to any such regulatory authorities as I see fit.

You have 14 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint.

If it is your view that you are not the creditor, s.175 of the CCA 1974 applies in the case of a simple assignment, and places a duty upon you to pass this request to the creditor. In the case of an absolute assignment, you are a creditor as defined by s.189. If you contend that you purchased the rights but not the duties of any agreement, you are reminded that s.189 of the Act is clear that an assignment is of both rights and duties.

 

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

 

I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

 

Yours faithfully

[harrassed senior]

The latest ruling on CCA Requests mean that they can send an unsigned, reconstructed agreement in response to your CCA request, however, they still need to have the actual original document to take enforcement through the Court system.

 

Therefore, it is normally agreed that if they only send a reconstructed agreement, then they do not have the original.

 

If you are going to send any kind of letter in dispute, make sure that it contains a reference to the requirement for the original.

 

The following sentence is used in CCA requests nowadays : If you intend to send a reconstituted copy of the CCA you must declare the reason why it has been reconstituted and if the original exists and in what form (microfiche) etc.

[lord_tiger_putin]

Hi all,

 

I have received a couple of 25% off letters from 1st Credit but not responded to them. When the time ran out on the first offer, the second offer came and extended the deadline another month.

 

Is this part of a standard series of letters, and is there more to come?

 

Should I hold off before making my own counter offer for a FFS?

 

broc

 

Just for info:

I received a number in quick succession, including a 50% one, they added up to 110% and was thinking to ask them when are they going to pay the 10%!

 

It seems that they will accept a very low FFS, maybe you will get the 50%, then offer a very low FFS, just my opinion, unless you want to go the CCA route because it is very likely that they cannot pursue you.

[broccoli_greens]

lord_tiger_putin, you've made my morning. I'll just wait.

 

The reasoning that "if they had a signed agrement, they'd send it" makes sense on the surface, but it's possible that they just couldn't be bothered searching until they decide to look at court action. In my case, I'm guessing that they don't have enough info about my current circumstances to determine whether or not they should. I've stonewalled for quite some time while I get myself together.

 

The following sentence is used in CCA requests nowadays : If you intend to send a reconstituted copy of the CCA you must declare the reason why it has been reconstituted and if the original exists and in what form (microfiche) etc.

 

Must they though? Is there some legislation to that effect?

 

I guess a SAR would show all their cards, or am I wrong about that?

 

Ultimately, I want to get to a conclusion which they agree is a final settlement. The unenforceable CCA (or missing CCA) will not necessarily get them off my back, nor bring closure to the whole thing. They can keep chasing me for six years (and, from what I understand, possibly beyond if they break the rules) even though court action isn't possible in those circumstances...

 

Thanks!

broc

[broccoli_greens]

By the way, these offers are coming from 1st Credit. Should I be making any offers to them when the time comes, or to the original creditor? Will the OC be aware of the discount letters at all (and therefore is it worth waiting for them to come out before I put mine in)?

[lord_tiger_putin]

I guess a SAR would show all their cards,

 

Not necessary, mine is with Vanquis but they failed to send any documents that do not exist in electronic format, including the CCA!! I questioned them about it but they failed to respond as of yet. By not sending the CCA even with a SAR does not mean they do not have one but producing it later will basicly a confession that they breached the DPA!

 

I am not sure whether it could be up to utter incompetence or whether they don't have the CCA but my experience is that many companies simply do not produce everything when they replied to a SAR and follow up letters is necessary to get the rest, therefore making a SAR does not lead to them always showing all their cards!!

[lord_tiger_putin]

By the way, these offers are coming from 1st Credit. Should I be making any offers to them when the time comes, or to the original creditor? Will the OC be aware of the discount letters at all (and therefore is it worth waiting for them to come out before I put mine in)?

 

My opinion is that it is something that must be clarified before making a payment, we all know how honest these companies are!! Also, make sure they confirm they will mark your credit file as fully settled, NOT partially settled.

[jimbo45]

The reason ist Crud are offering discounts is probably because they don't have any agreements that stick -- but CHECK everything carefully because what *might* happen is that the account gets sent back to HFC who will then set their SLIMEDOGS RESTON's after you.

 

RESTON'S are THE NASTIEST MOST HORRIBLE "LAW" FIRM EVER TO DEAL WITH -- no discussion no negociation just we want YYYY NOW and they WILL go to court very quickly indeed even if stuff is ONE DAY late. They are notorious for adding really extortionate "Collection Fees" as well and will ALWAYS go for a CHARGING ORDER if approriate.

 

Much as I dislike dealing with any DCA especially ist CRUD i'd be tempted to see if they would take a really LOW offer --biut ensure that any Full and Final settlement IS JUST THAT so nothing can be sold on or collected in future.

 

IMO ist CRUd are probable easier to deal with than RESTONS who usually get HFC / Marbles accounts.

 

Of course IF the debt is UNENFORCEABLE then you are in the clear but CHECK very carefully --RESTONS will use every slimy trick in the book if this account gets passed to them.

 

Cheers

jimbo

[babybear39]

Was it a paper application or online?

[broccoli_greens]

Not sure babybear39, what are the implications?

[babybear39]

Can't find the relevant date. Will ask site team to help.

[IdaInFife]

31st decemeber 2004

 

http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/+/http://www.berr.gov.uk/files/file42400.pdf

[babybear39]

Thanks