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Old Charging Order Debt Over 6 years old now being chased

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Back in 2005 a charging order was placed on my property for approx £14K this was a combination of debts and was initially a CCJ (for about 4 debts).

 

Any how, as I was not aware of this fab site :smile: I didnt defend the claim and allowed the charging order to be placed on my property. I have since moved from this property as I went through a very bad period and my house was repossessed :-(

 

I have received the odd letter from Rockwell Collections trying to get money out of me but I just sent them the do not acknowledge template as, not only was this CCJ placed on my property in 2005, I believe that these debts are also statute barred. I also believe that possibly 1 or 2 of these debts were SB when the CCJ was placed on my property.

 

Today I have received a letter from some Solicitors stating that they have received my do not acknowledge letter which has been forwarded to them by Rockwell and that the debt relates to (see above). They want me to cough up the money.

 

Now I remember writing to a DCA and I cannot for the life of me remember their name, asking for various copies of CCAs which funnily enough I never ever received. I wanted these as I was going to apply to get the CCJ removed from my credit file.

 

Now obviously I need to reply to this letter, do I ask for the CCA agreements given I have never received them and I don't think they exist and they went ahead with the CCJ or do I write back to them and tell them the debts are SB?

 

Any help greatly appreciated as these are around 6-8 years old and looking at my credit file no payment has been made for around 7 years!

 

Thanks

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Suggest that you phone Community Legal to discuss this. The 2005 CCJ will be valid until 2011, when they would need to get it refreshed by the court.

 

What I don't understand, is what the courts did with this aspect, when the repossession order was made.

I suspect that there was not enough equity and the mortgage company as the first creditor had the first call on any money.

But as the charge on the property would have been registered, the company holding that debt, would have received some correspondence about the sale of the property.

 

So what did they do about this?

Surely if the charging order is dead as a means to obtain the repayment of the debt, the creditor concerned would have to go back to court, to re-open the matter? This would then give you the opportunity to look into it in more detail.

 

This is not straightforward. Hence why you might want to obtain legal advice.

 

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I assume that when your house was reposessed there was a shortfall?


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Please note that this advice is given informally, without liability and without prejudice. Seek the advice of an insured qualified professional if you have any doubts. All my knowledge has been gained here, for which I'm very grateful. I'm a Journalist, not a law professional.

 

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I think you should tell them to Foxtrot Oscar.

 

The charging order was placed on your property -- if there is a shortfall when it's sold or repossed then "tough tits" as the saying goes -- the people who put the charging order on the property only get their chance at a slice of the cherry AFTER the other higher priority debts are paid first - such as the Mortgage company etc etc.

 

The whole charging order process has been seized on by greedy DCA's who think this is an easy way to make a killing out of a property owner on usually what was originally an UNSECURED loan such as credit cards etc.

 

It's not a quick way for them to make any money from your debt if at all -- if they weren't so greedy they wouldn't go down that path.

 

Since you DON'T own the property any more any debt on it becomes essentially meaningless since you don't have any other assets even if there is a shortfall on the mortgage.

 

I'd just tell them to get lost as there isn't any more they can do.

 

The order was against the PROPERTY not you --if the property didn't realize enough then that's not your problem.

 

 

BTW this type of stuff DOESN'T unfortunately become statute barred once a CCJ has been issued.

 

cheers

jimbo

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Although you know this debt to be subject to a CCJ the DCA may not! You may wish to send them a letter stating that you beleive the debt to be statute barred under s5 of the Limitation Act 1980. The great thing about the act is that the burden of proof falls with the people trying to chase you. The only way that this firm can chase for their payment is by asking the court to enforce the original CCJ. The rules of the court are very strict, it's unlikely they will give permission for this as they feel 6 years is a perfectly reasonable amount of time for enforcement to take place.

 

So in a nut-shell, I can't see this DCA getting a penny out of you.

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Ah, but, Sequenci, CO's are NOT covered by the 6 year SB. It's 12 years, same as any mortgage debt ;)

 

No harm though in the op playing the SB card as most DCAs etc. don't kow their A from their E :)


"To love unconditionally is the greatest gift, laughter is a close second" .To give your time to help others after being helped here is the best way to show your appreciation to your fellow CAG members.

 

Please note that this advice is given informally, without liability and without prejudice. Seek the advice of an insured qualified professional if you have any doubts. All my knowledge has been gained here, for which I'm very grateful. I'm a Journalist, not a law professional.

 

If you do PM, make sure to include a link to your thread as I don't give out advice in private ;)

BB 13 - DCAs/banks and solicitors 0.

 

I get a fresh start to get on with learning to live with severe disabilities when they could have had something if they'd been understanding...

 

<--- If you feel I've helped, please twinkle my star :)

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Ah, but, Sequenci, CO's are NOT covered by the 6 year SB. It's 12 years, same as any mortgage debt ;)

 

 

There isn't a charging order, there is simply a judgment debt. The Limitation Act has no application here, what we need to look at are the general court rules (and subsequent case law) in relation to the enforcement of judgments.

 

FYI the recent case of Yorkshire Bank Finance v Mulhall [2008] EWCA Civ 55 states that there is no limitation period within which a judgment creditor must apply for a charging order, and that there is no time limit in which a creditor must enforce a charging order.

 

Just because the debt was made subject to a charging order doesn't change it from a simple contract to a speciality (e.g. s20 LA1980).

 

Hope that makes sense!

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Hi there

That's a bit of good News -- I didn't realise that there was a 12 year limitation on these.

 

So that's why these Barstewards are prepared to accept sometimes 1 GBP a month -- just to keep the clock running.

 

Charging orders really in a lot of cases are more an irritant than a threat so I'm surprised why DCA's still think this is EASY money -- It's usually VERY long term, Courts rarely if ever make Orders for Sale on debts of under 20,000 GBP and often there isn't enough equity in the property even if it IS sold for the creditor to collect in any case.

 

Cheers

 

jimbo

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With the utmost respect Sequenci, I refer you to the OP's post stating there is a CO.


"To love unconditionally is the greatest gift, laughter is a close second" .To give your time to help others after being helped here is the best way to show your appreciation to your fellow CAG members.

 

Please note that this advice is given informally, without liability and without prejudice. Seek the advice of an insured qualified professional if you have any doubts. All my knowledge has been gained here, for which I'm very grateful. I'm a Journalist, not a law professional.

 

If you do PM, make sure to include a link to your thread as I don't give out advice in private ;)

BB 13 - DCAs/banks and solicitors 0.

 

I get a fresh start to get on with learning to live with severe disabilities when they could have had something if they'd been understanding...

 

<--- If you feel I've helped, please twinkle my star :)

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It's certainly a quandary! I wonder what has happened now that the house has been sold/repossesed?

 

The DCA can either try and chase those reponsible for the house sale for their share of the proceeds.

 

Or try further enforcement via the CCJ?

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Hi --enforcement in this case is actually a TOTAL waste of time since there isn't anything available to charge on.

 

As I said in my post just tell them to Foxtrot Oscar -- even the dummest DCA will realize WHTEVER pieces of Bumpf they've got from the various Kangaroo Courts with their Lickspittle judges that NO MONEY means NO MONEY --you can't get blood out of a stone.

 

Cheers

jimbo

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AIUI the CO only put them towards the top of the queue of creditors if the house was sold and any remaining equity was divided. I would also assume that because the house was repossessed their was negative equity so the CO was worth diddly squat then and now. The CO was on that property so it has expired now it has been repossessed etc.

 

They would need to apply to the court for permission to enforce the original CCJ now.... and it is highly unlikely that they would succeed in that. Besides, given the information above I doubt if the OP has any further equity which would make further enforcement economically viable.


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Hi there, thanks ever so for all your replies, for some reason I received no notification of these and it was by chance I decided to take 5 mins out to see the updates.

 

Ok so my first port of call is the SB letter is it to see what they say about that?

 

I guess I could go down the Courts road and get the CCJ removed off my credit file and start the process there?

 

The DCA that originally dealt with these was called Cabot and they NEVER supplied ANY CCA for the 4 debts they have lumped together as one CCJ and is this old CO in question.

 

What happens if I send them the SB letter and they come back and say its not? Do I ask them to provide the agreements?

 

Thanks

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