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Hi Ca anyone help with advice on ESA, i went to tribunal in May this year and was awarded ESA with support, two weeks ago i received an ESA 50 to fill in, when i rang the DWP they said it was a mini review i have now been given the 15th of this month as a date for further medical, what is going on !!! is the tribunal's a waste of tax payers money!!!!:-x

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Hello and Welcome, Snadger.

 

I'll move this thread to the appropriate Forum.

 

Regards.

 

Scott.

 
 

Any advice I give is honest and in good faith.:)

If in doubt, you should seek the opinion of a Qualified Professional.

If you can, please donate to this site.

Help keep it up and active, helping people like you.

If you no longer require help, please do what you can to help others

RIP: Rooster-UK - MARTIN3030 - cerberusalert

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I'm not on ESA (yet) but I think they do call people up for a second medical to assess what help you need and what work you might or might not be able to do. I'm not sure what the "Support" group is. Is it the one where you are not expected to work?

 

dj

Benefits rules are complex, and although I do try to inform and support people, I may get it wrong because the rules apply to individual claimants and their particular circumstances.

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Hi, yes the support group means you do not work, i just cannot get my head around the cost of all of this, i did not think for one minute that i would be left alone, but four months after tribunal!! can't beleive it, i have written to MP and Ian Duncan Smith, not that it will do any good just had to get it off my chest.

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Yes the government will one day announce a huge drop in payments to people on sickness benefits but they will try and keep the cost of achieving this very quiet.

 

They will not mention the other costs like, for example, more people needing healthcare because their condition has been made worse by this regime.

 

dj

Benefits rules are complex, and although I do try to inform and support people, I may get it wrong because the rules apply to individual claimants and their particular circumstances.

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Question....

 

Did your tribunal pass judgement on when you next need to be assessed?

 

If they didn't then the DWP will work on what the ATOS person said.

 

So even though you've won and proved the ATOS assessment report was a load of poppy cock unless the tribunal sets a date it will still be used as gospel for re-assessment dates.

 

Been wondering about this and correctness of medical records/data held by a company? Erika..... is there any life in this? Should on winning an appeal could a challenge under the DPA get the data held by ATOS/DWP corrected/changed?

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Yes, on winning a tribunal any findings of the tribunal should supercede the original findings. This should be done automatically; if it weren't done, you'd soon know as the claim would not be updated and rate of payment would not be changed. It's this new information being entered into the computer system which updates the record and releases the new award.

 

Regulation 34 (4) stipulates that they can determine afresh whether the claimant has or is to be treated as having limited capability for work-related activity.

 

Regulation 34 (5) stipulates that they can do this where either:

 

(a)the Secretary of State wishes to determine whether there has been a relevant change of circumstances in relation to the claimant’s physical or mental condition;

(b)the Secretary of State wishes to determine whether the previous determination about limited capability for work-related activity or about treating the claimant as having or as not having limited capability for work-related activity, was made in ignorance of, or was based on a mistake as to, some material fact; or

©at least 3 months have passed since the date of the previous determination about limited capability for work-related activity or about treating the claimant as having or as not having limited capability for work-related activity.

 

In effect, the law means that claimants can be called for a review via medical assessment once every three months even where there is no (reported) change of circumstances.

My advice is based on my opinion, my experience and my education. I do not profess to be an expert in any given field. If requested, I will provide a link where possible to relevant legislation or guidance, so that advice provided can be confirmed and I do encourage others to follow those links for their own peace of mind. Sometimes my advice is not what people necesserily want to hear, but I will advise on facts as I know them - although it may not be what a person wants to hear it helps to know where you stand. Advice on the internet should never be a substitute for advice from your own legal professional with full knowledge of your individual case.

 

 

Please do not seek, offer or produce advice on a consumer issue via private message; it is against

forum rules to advise via private message, therefore pm's requesting private advice will not receive a response.

(exceptions for prior authorisation)

 

 

 

 

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Yes, on winning a tribunal any findings of the tribunal should supercede the original findings. This should be done automatically; if it weren't done, you'd soon know as the claim would not be updated and rate of payment would not be changed. It's this new information being entered into the computer system which updates the record and releases the new award.

 

Yes I agree but..... the award has changed but the unless the tribunal rules otherwise everything else like re-assessment dates stand and is used by the DWP and ATOS to issue new assessments!

 

Surely this is wrong?

 

As the original assessment has been proved false so therefore all other findings like re-assessment dates etc have also been proved inaccurate (or have they?).

 

This then should become incorrect data held about you which can be challenged to get corrected?

 

Not sure where I'm going here... if I have an incorrect medical/financial/whatever record I can get it amended by law (and if for example I'm in the process of disputing) which is then used by the DWP/ATOS to re-assess me what would happen?

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lunatics and asylums sadly still holds, I think.

 

HB

 

Do you remember a guy that's been

In such an early song

I've heard a rumour from Ground Control

Oh no, don't say it's true

 

They got a message

from the Action Man

"I'm happy, hope you're happy too

I've loved

all I've needed to love

Sordid details following"

 

David Bowie Lyrics

 

" Ashes To Ashes " :D

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Yes I agree but..... the award has changed but the unless the tribunal rules otherwise everything else like re-assessment dates stand and is used by the DWP and ATOS to issue new assessments!

 

Surely this is wrong?

 

As the original assessment has been proved false so therefore all other findings like re-assessment dates etc have also been proved inaccurate (or have they?).

 

This then should become incorrect data held about you which can be challenged to get corrected?

 

Not sure where I'm going here... if I have an incorrect medical/financial/whatever record I can get it amended by law (and if for example I'm in the process of disputing) which is then used by the DWP/ATOS to re-assess me what would happen?

 

It's a little like NHS health records, yes. If you disagree with something in your health record it is largely up to the NHS whether or not they remove it. In most cases, they won't, but will enter a notice of correction against it.

 

When a tribunal looks at a case it should consider everything in regard to the decision. If they feel that a medical date has been set too soon, this should be included in their determination as a direction to DWP. If DWP receive no such direction, they follow the original ATOS report (because in that sort of scenario, the tribunal have not disputed this area).

 

After a tribunal which works in the claimants favour in regard to a medical, unless there is a change of circumstances, DWP won't order another medical to be done until 3 months from the tribunal date

 

i.e medical takes place in January, claimant placed in work related activity group, appeals against the decision, tribunal heard in June, claimant wins. DWP call the claimant to attend another medical in September.

My advice is based on my opinion, my experience and my education. I do not profess to be an expert in any given field. If requested, I will provide a link where possible to relevant legislation or guidance, so that advice provided can be confirmed and I do encourage others to follow those links for their own peace of mind. Sometimes my advice is not what people necesserily want to hear, but I will advise on facts as I know them - although it may not be what a person wants to hear it helps to know where you stand. Advice on the internet should never be a substitute for advice from your own legal professional with full knowledge of your individual case.

 

 

Please do not seek, offer or produce advice on a consumer issue via private message; it is against

forum rules to advise via private message, therefore pm's requesting private advice will not receive a response.

(exceptions for prior authorisation)

 

 

 

 

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Our cagger friend Yet_Another_Atos_Victim sent an F.O.I. request raising many good questions to the DWP via the "whatdotheyknow".

Some of the DWP answers are "loony" to say the least, e.g.

In March 2010, a department-led review of the WCA found that generally it is accurately identifying individuals for the right support.
The F.O.I. is at: http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/control_of_atos_healthcare_a_con_2 and the DWP's reply is at the bottom of the page.

FoI 1427 12.07.10.doc

79K Download View as HTML

Edited by loan_ranger

I'm not a qualified welfare rights adviser, but I'm planning on becoming one. I'm no substitute for more competent advice from trained CAB and welfare rights workers - [URL="http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/benefits-tax-credits-minimum/127741-benefits-advice.html"]see this post[/URL] by Joa, great advice and links! I've been running a Crisis Loan campaign and help since Jan 2007 . See my annotations c/o "theyworkforyou". I'm also currently interested by the recent DWP Medical Services reform and the effect this is having on valid claims, seriously - someone needs to be keeping a suicide count.

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After a tribunal which works in the claimants favour in regard to a medical, unless there is a change of circumstances, DWP won't order another medical to be done until 3 months from the tribunal date

 

i.e medical takes place in January, claimant placed in work related activity group, appeals against the decision, tribunal heard in June, claimant wins. DWP call the claimant to attend another medical in September.

 

You're a diamond :D

 

So.... how can the DWP/ATOS legally issue a request for new assessment (send out an ESA50) within days of the tribunals decision? As we see reports on here of a call for an assessment before that review date (if it actually exists)? Plus if a tribunal has ruled the decision wrong/assessment flawed how with out a new assessment can they decide when a review is needed?

 

Not having a go trying to rationalise :D As HB says the lunatics are ruling the CAG board ;p

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That F.O.I. web-site is always worth a look. Try http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/search/ATOS%20ESA%20DWP but have your "smoke and mirrors deep bullometer" at the ready when you read the DWP responses.

Edited by loan_ranger
filtered search link

I'm not a qualified welfare rights adviser, but I'm planning on becoming one. I'm no substitute for more competent advice from trained CAB and welfare rights workers - [URL="http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/benefits-tax-credits-minimum/127741-benefits-advice.html"]see this post[/URL] by Joa, great advice and links! I've been running a Crisis Loan campaign and help since Jan 2007 . See my annotations c/o "theyworkforyou". I'm also currently interested by the recent DWP Medical Services reform and the effect this is having on valid claims, seriously - someone needs to be keeping a suicide count.

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You're a diamond :D

 

So.... how can the DWP/ATOS legally issue a request for new assessment (send out an ESA50) within days of the tribunals decision? As we see reports on here of a call for an assessment before that review date (if it actually exists)?

 

I've never heard of this, not without a change of circs. Not saying it doesn't happen, but it shouldn't happen. What I have heard of is people being called for a different kind of assessment which they must have and would have had, had the original decision been correct. Many people mistake this for another "medical" but it isn't that medical - it's a different assessment which is part and parcel of claiming ESA.

 

Plus if a tribunal has ruled the decision wrong/assessment flawed how with out a new assessment can they decide when a review is needed?

 

 

The same way they can disagree with the findings of the original assessment without having another assessment done at tribunal. The tribunal must review everything which relates to the decision.

 

 

Not having a go trying to rationalise :D As HB says the lunatics are ruling the CAG board ;p

 

If you don't ask, you won't get an answer - rationalise all you need to, that's why I come here every night.

My advice is based on my opinion, my experience and my education. I do not profess to be an expert in any given field. If requested, I will provide a link where possible to relevant legislation or guidance, so that advice provided can be confirmed and I do encourage others to follow those links for their own peace of mind. Sometimes my advice is not what people necesserily want to hear, but I will advise on facts as I know them - although it may not be what a person wants to hear it helps to know where you stand. Advice on the internet should never be a substitute for advice from your own legal professional with full knowledge of your individual case.

 

 

Please do not seek, offer or produce advice on a consumer issue via private message; it is against

forum rules to advise via private message, therefore pm's requesting private advice will not receive a response.

(exceptions for prior authorisation)

 

 

 

 

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I don't mean to sound grumpy, but what is the point exactly of the post just above my current post please? Does it mean we can help CAG, because it seems to come from the site team, or is there another message?

 

IMHO, time would be better spent warning us humble caggers that the site is being changed, maybe with an explanation of the rationale. I expect I'm lazy, but if someone takes the time to explain the bigger picture to me, I can usually understand how to deal with a website, for example. As a few of us have found, I have had to flounder around CAG to find the forums I want because no-one took the time to tell me/us how the changes were to work.

 

Rant over, sorry all.

 

HB x

Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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Eh?

 

Honeybee, you have completely lost me. Have you posted the above in the wrong thread? I think you meant to post on the forum upgrade thread? If you have posted the above in the right place, I can move it if you like. If not, can you elaborate because I have no idea what you mean?

My advice is based on my opinion, my experience and my education. I do not profess to be an expert in any given field. If requested, I will provide a link where possible to relevant legislation or guidance, so that advice provided can be confirmed and I do encourage others to follow those links for their own peace of mind. Sometimes my advice is not what people necesserily want to hear, but I will advise on facts as I know them - although it may not be what a person wants to hear it helps to know where you stand. Advice on the internet should never be a substitute for advice from your own legal professional with full knowledge of your individual case.

 

 

Please do not seek, offer or produce advice on a consumer issue via private message; it is against

forum rules to advise via private message, therefore pm's requesting private advice will not receive a response.

(exceptions for prior authorisation)

 

 

 

 

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Eh?

 

Honeybee, you have completely lost me. Have you posted the above in the wrong thread? I think you meant to post on the forum upgrade thread? If you have posted the above in the right place, I can move it if you like. If not, can you elaborate because I have no idea what you mean?

Agreed Erika, I too was somewhat intrigued because we know honeybee not to go "off topic" and for a moment I said to myself, "mother's been on the cooking sherry", however what HB refered to is the google ads purporting to be from site team. I've advised HB via a pm to re-phrase (for context) and re-post in the newly created category The Consumer Forums website - Questions & Suggestions , or maybe my thread just got moved there and the category already existed.

I too have a gripe with the google ads insert masquerading as a site team posting because it smells funny, then you get used to it and ignore it because the forum's trained staff have at least expenses to cover and possibly a fair remuneration is due for such expertise as we have had from yourself, without which this forum would relatively be a "cheap hatchback" instead of the "powerful sports car" - metaphorically speaking.

 

The upgraded Vbulletin software is still causing us concern, e.g. today it wiped out all my quote tags when I submitted a pm, even though the preview displayed them fine. I have good reason to be annoyed because I run a phpBB3 board, which hasn't any of the many problems which this board is having, but the clincher is that mine costs nothing because it's open source and CAG actually pays for theirs by a license fee for support and up-grade.

 

HB wrote and received a reply re. the upgrade problems, in the meantime some of the best contributors e.g. Rae, are restricting their time on CAG due to frustration and the users, members and the site are the real losers.

Thanks, Paul.

I'm not a qualified welfare rights adviser, but I'm planning on becoming one. I'm no substitute for more competent advice from trained CAB and welfare rights workers - [URL="http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/benefits-tax-credits-minimum/127741-benefits-advice.html"]see this post[/URL] by Joa, great advice and links! I've been running a Crisis Loan campaign and help since Jan 2007 . See my annotations c/o "theyworkforyou". I'm also currently interested by the recent DWP Medical Services reform and the effect this is having on valid claims, seriously - someone needs to be keeping a suicide count.

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Hi Erika. I'm not mad, honestly, or at least I hope not :). If you look at the post above timed at 11.40 [not speedfreek's, which went on at the same time], that's what I mean. Unless it's done a Harry Potter on me and you can't see it.

 

LR, please feel free to PM or post the cooking sherry and thank you for your support.

 

HB x

Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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