Stress at Work?

[peterpiper88]

Hello all!

 

I've recently completed a grievance through Unison, as expected no case to answer was found and my appeal was denied - I'm wondering what to do next. Here's a quick background:

 

3 years ago I left work with stress, anxiety, depressive symptoms and stress. After 2 months off I returned under a phased return and agreed policy with my employer.

 

The problems of bullying and harassment (in my opinion only, as the grievance procedure lead me to believe) continued and I left around Christmas 2008 after being isolated, gossiped about, subjected to numerous remarks and letters from management, asked to breach H&S and continually scrutinised and challenged by my employer when I asked for and completed my duties.

 

My employer has tried unsuccessfully to dimiss me, I have constantly self-referred to Occ. Health and have had Dr's notes from 5 different Dr's diagnosing me with stress. I am currently on anti-depressants and sleeping tablets. I have recently developed stress induced asthma according to my Dr.

 

Some extra points: I'm one of 5 to be off work with this long-term. I have no warnings or disciplinary record. My employer delayed the greivance and it took over 18months to process. I missed out on the opportunity to be promoted whilst off as I was unable to attend an interview I was invited to. Also when my employer attempted to dismiss me via capability they refused to make adjustments to aid me in attending the meeting causing me further stress and upset, however as the meeting was called off I did not need to attend.

 

I am now aware that I don't have enough evidence to prove I was bullied and harassed. I had 3 witnesses but they had 4 - So they win apparently! Throught the investigation I believe my state of health was ignored and not assessed.

 

As I left work the first time and put my employer on notice do you thing the actions of my employer after (i.e. breaking the agreement of my return, allowing me to be treated badly and putting me under further stress) would give me a good basis for a claim for stress at work?

 

Thanks

[peterpiper88]

Can I get some help on this?

[seftonview]

Hi Peter,

 

You've mentioned you're a Union member. Contact your Union and see if they offer a personal injury service. Most unions tend to do so. Stress claims are exceedingly difficult to win, and I feel the best source of advice for you would be a Solicitor.

 

SV

[peterpiper88]

Thanks for replying.

 

My union have basically said we're leaving it here.

 

Just wondering if anyone knows if a solicitor could take this on as personal injury instead of employment law - just easier for funding no win no fee!

[papasmurf1cx]

Hi Peter..... are you still at work? It sounds like you are not as you state you 'left in 2008'? Did you report all this to the DWP as an Industrial Injury?

 

I ask this of everyone so should have it automated but have to type it in... have you got Legal Protection Insurance (try looking in your Home contents insurance. Your condition probably, depending on exact diagnosis, be classified as being legally disables. That may afford you the protection of the Disability Discrimination Act 1995. Look it up.

 

I am not a fan of unions (although they sometimes help so can't be ignored). Have they suggested where you go next?

 

What do you do? What did they try and dismiss you for? When? Can you list the dates when things happened? This is important because Employment Tribunals have strict time lines.

 

They would ALWAYS win even if you had 1000 witnesses and they had a dirty piece of tissue... that is what they do to people.

 

If you are no longer in employment then a Personal Injury claim is probably the only route (DWP may also be available) left in the courts.

 

PI action for stress cases is VERY VERY difficult, not impossible but nearly so. The courts (and lawyers because they can't make money) don't like it. You have 3 years from the date of the injury which could be 2008 or earlier.

 

as a blue sky thinking position you may argue that that the phased return was a breach of contract (6 years to when the limitation Act runs out) so may be actionable............ but you would need EXPERT opinion on that.

 

Regards

[peterpiper88]

I'm still technically employed by my employer however I have not recieved any money for the past year due to me being absent.

 

I have just been awarded Industrial Injury payments and the DWP say I have 8 counts of Industrial Injury but I'm not quite sure how this helps me?

 

My house insurance doesn't cover me unfortunately. This issue has near bankrupted me, which hasn't helped my recovery. But as far as I'm aware I have no aciton to bring to the Employment Tribunal according to my union. My union have said the next step is for me to return or get on with my life....very nice of them!

 

I work in education, an area that seems to be full of this sort of treatment. I've got a diary and 3 lever arch folders detailing every event for the past 3 years. They tried to dismiss me on capability but failed due to medical reports being out of date.

[peterpiper88]

Just a quick note on my medical situation:

 

- 3 years of Occ. health counselling

- 4 different Occ. health doctors reporting stress, anxiety and panic attacks related to work

- 4 G.P.'s diagnosing stress, anxiety and depressive symptoms

- I'm currently on medication and have been for the last 2 years (sleeping tablets and anti depressants)

- I have recently developed asthma during the final stages of the grievance which I am led to believe can be caused due to stress

- I am currently on incapability benefit and had medical reports for this too

 

Thanks

 

Peter

[honeybee13]

Peter, it could be worth you trying to find an employment lawyer and asking for a free initial interview to see if you have a case. Make sure you get an employment specialist. If you can't find one, your local CAB probably have contacts.

 

I see why papasmurf is asking you about timings. When did the grievance procedure finish please?

 

HB

[peterpiper88]

Thanks for replying.

 

My appeal was denied just under a month ago, then I got a letter from the union saying they believed I had no claims last week.

 

I've booked to see a solicitor but he's already guessing at quite LARGE figures of cash and hasn't mentioned any PI at all.

[papasmurf1cx]

I just posted a big long reply and it seems to have got lost!!!!!!!! Where is it?

[cerberusalert]

I just posted a big long reply and it seems to have got lost!!!!!!!! Where is it?

 

The only record showing of any previous post to the one you've just made is post #5 above.

[papasmurf1cx]

The only record showing of any previous post to the one you've just made is post #5 above.

 

Thanks..... I will rewrite it.

[papasmurf1cx]

Hi Peter... I am really annoyed that my post didn't get to you so I have to rewrite this. Perhaps better???? !!!!

 

I think you need to write a fuller explanation as to what you have gone through and detail in greater length the grievances that you have lodged.

 

From the little you have posted I think your union is not backing you because you are still employed albeit not being paid no doubt? They appear to be ignoring allegations of discrimination, which may be an act of discrimination in itself and possible victimisation. I am assuming from the language you use eg bullying, stress , anxiety and "adjustments" that allegations of Discrimination were grieved about. You need to make all this clear.

 

As there has been no overt act to end you employment it appears unless discrimination is the issue that you might need to wait for them to dismiss you. Perhaps you could get Legal protection NOW before they do this and then you would be insured when they act against you. I wouldn't rely on the union as they probably are working hand in hand with the employer keep the independent option open. However if you have been discriminated against you still can lodge a complaint at the Employment Tribunal. Dikscrimination is a "continuing act" and as you have grieved it have 6 months to get a complaint in. But we need to know more as stated above.

 

The attempt to dismiss you probably is an act of victimisation among probably many that you have in those files. The health problems that have been accepted as Industrial Injuries do legally make you a 'disabled person' and the DDA 1995 will protect you. Allegations of Discrimination carry with it an ability to claim for Personal Injury, loss of wages / pension, other losses and damages for Injury to Feeling. You have the option to get a declaration that it was a discriminatory act. Once this has been done and you are still employed you then can require the employer to put right the wrongs and a failure to do then is discrimination again and the circle starts again. The point being DO NOT RESIGN. Make them do the overt act to get rid of you Hang on in there.

 

The delay in proceedings is discrimiatory / victimisation.

 

At least you have witnesses that is great. Normally people are on their own against an employer and they still win so take heart. The employer will never state they acted wrongly and will defend forever their actions as not being discriminatory. They have to be made to face the issue. The ET will give you an HONEST assesment so you need to get it in to the Tribunal. But how is the question as you are obviously running out of resources?

 

Solicitors will charge you the earth and as it approaches trial the barrister will cost you even more. We were charged the entire sum of the £50k insurance cover. Management companies are hit and miss and will. cost you the earth too. Don't know of any good ones at all and this site has many horror stories that put you off.

 

Employment Law is very complicated but yu could try and do this yourself with the help of Cagger's. I am no expert but could point you in the right direction and others will help too.

 

The point being that once you lodge a complaint in the ET the employer HAS to deal with it. They will defend it and you will get all the nasty tricks under the sun and more victimisation no doubt. But take them to the doors of the court and into court and chances are they will start to negotiate. They probably will want you to resign as part of the settlement and sign a Compromise Agreement which will gag you from speaking.

 

You will need to get 'expert' reports from a doctor which will cost you hundreds if not thousands of pounds. But the report will apportion liability and work for you.

 

Finances......... Do you have some sort of Teachers benefit that replaces your wages? In the NHS if there is an injury that is the responsibility of the employer they ensure your wages do not go below 85% of normal wages. The employer has to admit they were wrong though and they won't do that easily. Got something like that?

 

The Industrial Injury declarations are helpful as it does suggest that the employer was wrong and failing to act in accordance with the decision might also be discriminatory. However to get the benefits you have to apply for them.... more forms and a visit to the DWP doctor to assess what percentage, if any, you are disabled. You could get a lump sum or a monthly payment depending on what the doctor states... or nothing... you have to reach a basic level of disability. They don't like stress cases, but you seem to have more going for you than most so you may achieve some payout.

 

I think that is it at present. If I have to give a personal view I would take it on and represent myself you have nothing to lose and everything to gain. I will help as much as I can and others will too. Others on the site are very knowledgeable and In think they like successes!!!! Go for it. Look forward to seeing the details of your case.

[honeybee13]

That's a good point, papasmurf. Many employers in the private sector and I would expect most or all in the public sector have a scheme for paying a percentage of salary to an employee who is too ill to work.

 

PP this is the kind of thing I have dealt with in the private sector. Perhaps you could answer this post separately to all your other issues with your employer and tell us why you aren't receiving income please? And are you in the teacher's pension scheme or not?

 

HB

[peterpiper88]

First of all, thanks for taking the time to write all of this out again! Very much appreciated!

 

Dikscrimination is a "continuing act" and as you have grieved it have 6 months to get a complaint in. But we need to know more as stated above.

 

I've got over 100 incidents but I have PROOF of much much fewer, but I'll list the ones I can prove.

 

I was consistantly gossiped about to new members of staff and they were told to make work easier, less challenging or not to talk about things with me.

 

I was not welcomed to staff meetings and could not get minutes.

 

I was consistantly asked and pressured to breach H&S by completing tasks I was not trained to do.

 

I was spoken to in a very aggressive tone.

 

My timetable meant I spent all day isolated.

 

I recieved a letter stating I was a negative impact on my workplace.

 

I asked but never recieved a copy of my contract and job description.

 

Policies were implemented on me that were not yet in place by the local authority, such as interviews after being ill.

 

I was asked to attend a course but then at the last minute this was cancelled by my employer, something they now deny ever agreeing to send me on.

 

The point being DO NOT RESIGN. Make them do the overt act to get rid of you Hang on in there.

 

My union informed me today that a capability hearing is soon to be arranged but he keeps saying I dont need to attend. This will be their second attempt with an out of date medical report.

 

 

The delay in proceedings is discrimiatory / victimisation.

 

I thought that too. I'm so glad I'm not going mental and someone agrees! I've been told so many times that they were in their right to delay as much as they like that I'd started to think thats right!

 

But how is the question as you are obviously running out of resources?

 

Completely. I dont have a penny to spend on this and that worries me a lot. I'm scouring all my insurance policies but nothing as of yet!

 

Finances......... Do you have some sort of Teachers benefit that replaces your wages? In the NHS if there is an injury that is the responsibility of the employer they ensure your wages do not go below 85% of normal wages. The employer has to admit they were wrong though and they won't do that easily. Got something like that?

 

No, not for unison memebers as far as I'm aware.

 

I think that is it at present. If I have to give a personal view I would take it on and represent myself you have nothing to lose and everything to gain. I will help as much as I can and others will too. Others on the site are very knowledgeable and In think they like successes!!!! Go for it. Look forward to seeing the details of your case.

 

Thanks so much for all your help and advice upto now! Really helps that people are giving me routes of guidance.

 

I spoke to a solicitor on the phone today too. She basically said that I was discriminated against and I have a personal injury case, but can't see why the union wont take it. I'm going to fill in ANOTHER case form I think just to see if that helps at all. I want it to be effective. Would any of you mind looking at it form me before I send?

[peterpiper88]

That's a good point, papasmurf. Many employers in the private sector and I would expect most or all in the public sector have a scheme for paying a percentage of salary to an employee who is too ill to work.

 

PP this is the kind of thing I have dealt with in the private sector. Perhaps you could answer this post separately to all your other issues with your employer and tell us why you aren't receiving income please? And are you in the teacher's pension scheme or not?

 

HB

 

Hi HB, thanks for getting involved!

 

I'm a unison member so I dont get those perks. I'm an assistant rather than teacher so I don't fall into that category. But even if I did I wouldnt get paid - my authority have apparently opted out of the scheme. Another of the 5 that are off did not recieve payments.

 

I got 6 months full and 6 months half and then that was it. I'm not on capability, housing benefit and hopefully I'll soon be recieving industrial injury money.

 

I've an appointment to see them and get a medical report in a week or so.

 

Thanks

 

PP

[honeybee13]

Hello again. I take your point about sick pay and that part of it sounds normal. Do you have an employee handbook, or is that sort of thing on the internet for you to look at? I'm a bit surprised they don't have anything in place. Normally a Permanent Disability type scheme would cover all employees, unless there's something special about your own contract.

 

I would expect this sort of benefit to be provided by your employer, not Unison, btw.

 

Can you tell me anything else about sick pay arrangements after the full pay/half pay part runs out, please?

 

HB x

[papasmurf1cx]

Hi PP......... Are you male or female? Sorry to ask but it helps when placing you in one's mind's eye!!

 

The union won't help because they don't want to help. If a solicitor has stated you have been discriminated against. I would give the union one last try but on this occasion state that you have taken independent legal advice and been told that discrimination has taken place and that the union in failing to uphold it's Equality and Diversity Policy and failing to provide legal representation could also be construed as Discriminating and victimising you.

 

Obviously these unions don't give solicitors out to grievances and disciplinary hearings, they use employment advisors so for the forthcoming capability hearing you will have to make do. The point is that they know you are disabled, and if they don't TELL them how you are disabled and exactly how (briefly) you have been discriminated. Remember it is the fact that being treated differently is where the discrimination is. They will have vistimised you because they can see that this is headed for the ET and they are punishing you because they will not allocated resources to appoint a solicitor for you.

 

The DDS 1995 has complete sections devoted to "Trade Organisations" ie unions.

 

I agree with HB...... the employer gives the benefit not the union. I would write to Education Department and ask what benefits are available to teachers and assistants in regard to injuries contracted in the workplace.

[honeybee13]

To add to what papasmurf says, I think these are separate issues. Injury at work is one and a Permanent Disability/Health policy is another. Suggest you ask about both, that way you should avoid any crossed wires that could delay possible payments to you.

 

HB x

[peterpiper88]

Hello to both of you! You really are such a help to me at the moment.

 

 

I'm female - sorry I've been edgy on giving away information. I just feel like it has to be a big secret and don't want to give away too much information. But I'm over that now!

 

I've had a search online but I can't find anything of the sort from my employer..which is a bit worrying. I'll email the local authorities legal team and education department asking them for an Employee handbook and information on Health Policy/Permanent Disability Schemes. I'm going to give my pension information a read too.

 

I've just taken the legal criteria for disability discrimination from the solicitors the union appoint and highlighted how I fit into that. It comes out as 8 pages long...is that too much? I've just detailed examples of discrim that happend after I returned from my first absence.

 

Are you saying I should say to the union they are discriminating against me too? I'd literally never thought about that.

[honeybee13]

Hello again. I'll stick with pension and Permanent Disability stuff, if that's OK. You may find sickness benefit information in your pension booklet. [And who reads it until they need it after all]. If you do, please tell me what it says and I'll comment.

 

I see papasmurf is around and I hope he'll comment on your other queries.

 

Btw thank you, it's nice to know you're a girlie in case we say the wrong thing, but you're right not to give away too much. Employers can and do read the forums and around the time when I joined CAG, one lady's OH was given a lot of grief because she'd posted here and on Facebook about his disciplinary problem. [she wasn't the employee, but they got really tetchy about it.]

 

HB x

[papasmurf1cx]

Guessed as much. I felt like that when my wife and I were in dispute with her employer, it's natural, you see enemies everywhere, you begin to distrust everyone. We have been through it so know how you feel. Might not have all the answers but someone normally has some answers.

 

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1995/50/section/13 I would say that you should look at the legislation and fit your facts to that not what the union notes say. But if that is how you can cope it is as good a stategy as any.

 

Have a look at this link and read what you think applies to you. http://www.equalityhumanrights.com/advice-and-guidance/information-for-advisers/codes-of-practice/

 

This is relevant I believe http://www.equalityhumanrights.com/uploaded_files/the_duty_to_promote_disability_equality_statutory_code_of_practice_england_and_wales.pdf The codes are NOT law but courts and Tribunals use them as the statutory interpration of it so is as good as the law. In short what it says goes.

 

When you write about detailed examples be careful. Look to see if it a stand alone 'offence' and not one that has to interpreted as a series of incidents that go towards an overall strategy against you. You don't want to get too bogged down otherwise the reader will switch off. Try and keep it 'snappy' but you could also allude to the series of incidents that taken together could be discrimination...... the point being that it takes too long to describe.

 

You have to get across

 

You are disabled (Lok at the codes and explain why you believe you fit into the legal definition)

 

They KNEW you were disabled

 

They treated you differently to others (examples of that need to be shown or alluded to as a hypothetical person) / failed to make reasonable adjustments / etc (look at the Act to see what they did and note the section / sub section --- just for your own benefit at this stage)

 

They Victimised you (look at the definition again..... they have to know that you have a case in the ET or had a grievance and still did the act.... it talks of Protected Acts google it.... basically they do something bad to you whilst knowing they are being taken to task in courts / Tribunals / or other acts leading up that point ie Grievance Procedures)

 

 

Accusing the Union directly is never good. You have to lay out the facts, lay out what the union policy is (get it so you can quote it) say why you are entitled to proper legal support and that you disagree with their assessment thus far in letter dated XXXX). You have to ask them directly for support and then debate that failing to give you the benefit you are entitled to could be construed as breaching the section of the DDA I listed above.

 

You could plead with them that you want them fighting for you.

 

One trick they all play is withdraw support because their rules say they can suspend it if the relationship of trust breaks down. You have to careful not to say anything that could be taken as a breakdown of trust while at the same time show that they have a legal duty to help you and failure to do so could be unlawful.

 

Hope that helps.

[peterpiper88]

Hello again,

 

Thanks for that info on the Codes of Practice. Really helpful! I've got a meeting with a solicitor tomorrow. I'm going to call my union and I'm going to try and see the CAB to see if as a last resort they would represent me.

 

Is it ok to tell my union that I've seen a solicitor - as one rep told me if I spoke to ANYONE about this they would drop me, is that true?

 

HB - I've dug out my pension. I have an LGPS pension and I've found a bit I thought I might qualify for but I'm not sure. It says:

 

If you at least 2 years in the scheme and are unlikely to be capable of gainful employment within a reasonable period of leaving but may be capable of gainful employment again before you reach 65 ill health benefits apply. They are to be based on the membership built up plus 25% of my prospective membership to the age of 65.

 

As I'm on capability which said last January that I would be unable to return to work for atleast a year should I have been claiming this?

[honeybee13]

Hi there. Yes, I think this could be what I was referring to, except it assumes you've left. As I said, I'm not used to local authority schemes. It's worth asking the question anyway, in my book.

 

HB x

[papasmurf1cx]

"as one rep told me if I spoke to ANYONE about this they would drop me, is that true?" Sounds like a form of blackmail to me. Why should they talk in that way? Why would a rep know what and what not would be supported in a legal sense unless there was a hidden agenda?

 

I suppose that they could drop you but then again if you approach it in the way that I suggested then they would be breaking the law and making you "feel" very bad indeed in my opinion. I suppose it just depends on what course of action you think and feel is right.

 

How do you feel about it?