@rbs_mediateam RBS/Tesco loan debt

[cosmic13]

Nationwide are spinning you a yarn. Under the DD guarantee (and I'm quoting direct from the Service User Guide and Rules to the DD Scheme) "a payer (you) is entitled to an immediate refund if an error has been made either by the service user (RBS) or the paying bank (Nationwide). This includes any errors relating to:

- the collection date and frequency

- the amounts to be paid

- payments made after an instruction given to cancel a DD

 

The paying bank must therefore refund the payer imemdiately and only raise an indemnity claim where there has been service user error."

 

The indemnity claim is Nationwide's responsibility not yours. Failure to progress a cancellation immediately will result in the paying bank being liable for any DDs paid in error under the cancelled DDI unless the payer has already notified the service user.

 

So - I interpret that to mean that if you wrote to Nationwide to cancel the DDs they are at fault for allowing the DDs to be paid. If you also wrote to RBS then Nationwide can ask RBS for the money back, but in both cases Nationwide must refund you immediately.

 

Hope that helps. There is an awful lot more in there, but this seems to be the most appropriate info.

[Mr Worried]

Hi Gem

 

Thanks for that, I do remember somebody making a comment about £60.00 and you re -iterating the above, appologies if you thought I was whinging but I have a general concern re your scenario. especially your cca request and findings. who is the solicitor, you cam pm me if you dont want Eyes to see.

 

Cheers

 

Mr Satisfied

 

 

 

 

Hi Mr Worried, yes I did post it on here, and as already said and agreed the advice given on here is not always correct, or maybe confusing etc, after several attempts to get a difinitive answer as to if the agreement is enforceable or not, I decided to waste no more time as I need to be aware of what actions I can take, and also what actions may be taken against me also, in the end I searched and found a solicitor that did not bully me into deciding, in fact gave me their details and let me decide for myself if I wanted to proceed, the initial outlay is around sixtyfive pounds per account to be audited, this does include the 1.00 fee, the sars fee 10.00, and their audit fee in order for them to view the whole picture, they then will revert back to me once audit has been done to tell me if the agreement is enforceable or not, if it is not, then they will then start the process of entering into correspondence with the creditor to get this debt cancelled, it is a no win no fee basis, if I win, then I pay them 25% of the amount they save me, you may think this alot, but in order to have them deal with it for me, and that includes court which I shall gladly attend with them if needs be, it gives me the peace of mind that I will have the support I need to sort this out, and to be honest the amount I will have to pay if I win will be well worth it to me, if they are found to be enforceable then at least I will know for sure, and will be able to act accordingly. And yes the firm of solicitors am using deal with this sort of claim all the time and seem one of the best rate rise and seem to know what they are doing, hope this helps.

[dx100uk]

Hi R, ok have just contacted Nationwide to say that I am not happy with this being paid as I have cancelled the DD and want it recalled, they have said that they will have to send off an indemnity form, they also have to contact RBS, I asked them why they have to contact RBS as it is my account and my instruction not to pay?, they said they need to know why RBS have taken this amount after I have cancelled it, I explained that I had a ten year loan with RBS, eight years into it, and Nationwide said that maybe they had reintroduced the original DD to Nationwide, I asked does that mean that if RBS tell Nationwide that I owe the money, even though I have said the account is in dispute, that RBS have precedence over me, and then can even continue to take money from my account without my permission?, the person acting on behalf of Nationwide did not know the answer to this, I did ask if RBS have to produce a new DD form from the date I signed the agreement in order for Nationwide to have started paying this again, again he did not know, it seems to me that I have no control over what happens with my money then?, I know there has been details of this sort of thing given out on tv recently with the money saving expert and Dom, advising the only way to prevent such practice is to close the account and move to another bank, but I still fail to see how someone can raid your bank account and get away with it.

 

 

what a load of old bullworks....

 

get your money back stop giving them permission to mess you around.

 

you are not phoning up to ask you are phoning up to GET IT PUT BACK.

i'd also ask for compensation too!!

 

 

dx

[aldeota]

It was not until my 85 year old dad starting having problems with requesting home Insurance quotes from the likes of Tesco and others did I become aware of the sneeky little tactics employed by the sneeky little people involved in the murky world of Direct Debit.

 

He asked for quotes and got DDs set up.

In fact, quotes and 'thank you for taking up' letters were sent out on the same day.

They then refused refunds so did his bank.

 

 

He spoke with me and I did some research.

DDs are run by banks for banks and their customers.

It allows them to stick their greasy pinkies into your account anytime for any amount

- as long as they tell you

[read your mail, you might miss it]

 

 

however,

you get a 'guarantee' in small print.

It's a good guarantee

[any dispute and your bank MUST GIVE AN IMMEDIATE AND FULL REFUND.

 

 

They then fight it out with the company who wants your hard earned cash]

.but, not many know it and that includes the cashiers at the banks or BS

- so, you end up arguing with one and all.

 

 

However, if you get past the cashiers, the bosses know and you get your refund.

 

This is how they set up dad's DDs.

Companies share information among themselves,

it wasn't difficult to get his bank details etc.

 

 

So, being old, they thought

- they'd have him over.

So, they set up DDs, hoping he'd neither notice or complain.

 

Now,

it's my contention that they breached the first princilpe of the Data Protection Act. [DPA]

For as dad had not authorised the DD,

for them to use his 'personal details'

i.e bank details, was 'unlawful.'

 

 

I've just posted the letters to those involved setting out my concerns and requesting,

under my rights from the DPA,

to send me all personal information held by them,

including recorded phone calls.

 

 

For you need to be aware,

that to start up a DD,

they DON'T need a signature;

authorisations can be given to them verbally.

[gem-100]

Hi dx and aldeota, I will put more pressure on them tomorrow regarding the refund, I will speak to someone more senior and get it sorted. Cant believe that the bank would recommend that I close the account a open a new account to prevent it happening again when there is a much simpler answer, they should not have paid it as I had cancelled it, I should not be put in the position of having to contact RBS to ask for a refund after entering into a dispute with them, I know they would not give it back as they have now passed the account to Triton (inhouse collector) I wonder if they think I would either not have noticed it had left my account, bearing in mind that I have told them I am on job seekers income only, or if they thought I would not think to challenge it being taken, it just shows how inconsiderate they can be to someone on the breadline, taking nearly every penny I have, I told them I could only afford 5.00 a month (before I put the account into dispute) and they go and take 300.00, this has certainly made me feel stronger about disputing the debt now, and I will never shop in any of their stores again (Tesco's I mean).

[Bazooka Boo]

IMO I would walk into your local brach and speak to the branch manager, and have him refund the money there and then, once it is refunded withdraw the entire amount, close the acount, vote with your feet and open a new account with some else like the Post Office, if the branck manager can't or won't refund the money, get his details and make a formal complaint to head office about the abysmal way their bank treats it's customers.

I can give you the banks CEO email address if you want to make a complaint to him...

[gem-100]

Hi bb, nice to see you, yes ok, the CEO contact details maybe worth while, they should really make sure their staff are well equiped to do the job and this means being informed on the such things as customers rights, I did suggest to young person who helped me today that he should enquire about the rights to a refund and direct debit gaurantees, I would have thought these would be very basic things to be aware off especially if you are a customer service operative.

[Bazooka Boo]

Just print off the direct debit guarantee, and stand in front of their desk read it off verbatum, then there is no misunderstanding, and ask for a full immediate refund, if they continue to give you any flannel, read it again, and ask them which part of the guarantee they are having trouble understanding?

Drop Steven Hester a line if they remain incompetent.

[email protected]

[gem-100]

Hi BB, thanks, my bank is Nationwide, RBS are the one's who took the cancelled dd, they are Tesco, it does not look like I will be going anywhere soon from here, it has been snowing all day and is now around a foot deep, my house is on a hillside and the front steps, 20, have now merged into a slope, but I will deff contact Natonwide again tomorrow and tell them I want the refund to be done straightaway.

[Bazooka Boo]

Oops sorry, here you go,

[email protected]

I have his phone number as well, but I thought better of posting that up on here, although it is in the public domain..

[gem-100]

Thanks BB, I did contact them again today and as DX said told them I was not asking for a refund but telling them that as per the dd gaurantee I was entitled to my money to credited back straight away as they had paid the dd after I had cancelled it, they have told me this process takes around 48 hours, I said one of my concerns was that I was told yesterday that the refund was only going to be given once RBS had explained why they had taken the dd again and once Nationwide were happy with their explanation, I told Nationwide that I am in dispute with RBS, and under no circumstances has Nationwide the right to decide that RBS are correct in taking the dd, I have cancelled the dd, it's my bank account and I will decide what gets paid from it. I know that I signed a dd around 7 years ago for this loan and that it was to stand for 10 years, but I have now put the account into dispute and told Nationwide that I do not want them to interefere in my business. Anyway, do I now slap RBS's wrists for taking this money?, they know I am on jobseekers and can only afford 5.00 a month, the amount they took was 300.00, this has taken me into overdraft as I did not have sufficient funds to cover this amount, and for someone on the poverty line I feel it is really out of order for them to take my money like this, I want to write to them reminding them that the account is in dispute, but can I also tell them not to take any money out of my bank account with out first consulting me?.

[cosmic13]

Regarding Nationwide crediting back the funds - it should be immediate, not within 48 hours. Think there may be somewhere you can complain about the DD, but don't have the DD Guide/Rules with me. I'll have a look tomorrow and post what I find.

[gem-100]

Hi cosmic13, ok, thanks for that, would be good to know a bit more about one's rights regarding dd's.

[Bazooka Boo]

Hmm it seems that the DDI is changing, only some of the wording mind.

• This Guarantee is offered by all banks and building societies that accept instructions to pay Direct Debits

• If there are any changes to the amount, date or frequency of your Direct Debit (insert your organisation name) will notify you (insert number of ) working days in advance of your account being debited or as otherwise agreed. If you request (insert your organisation name) to collect a payment, confirmation of the amount and date will be given to you at the time of the request

• If an error is made in the payment of your Direct Debit by (insert your organisation name) or your bank or building society you are entitled to a full and immediate refund of the amount paid from your bank or building society

- If you receive a refund you are not entitled to, you must pay it back when (insert your organisation name) asks you to

• You can cancel a Direct Debit at any time by simply contacting your bank or building society. Written confirmation may be required. Please also notify us.

 

So there it is in black and white, well red and black, the red highlight bit is so you can demand an IMMEDIATE refund, you should now lodge a formal complaint with YOUR bank, not RBS, it is your banks fault and bad working practices that have made you go into your overdrafr, also, if you have incurred any charges because of this, then you want those refunded also, secondly, if you are on benefits, JSA etc, then the MAXIMUM amount you should be be paying any of your creditors (for consumer debt) IS £1 a MONTH, nothing more.

The amount of money you get on JSA is the MINIMUM the government says is needed to live off, and as consumer debt is not a priority, not by a long shot, then they only receive £1, that is ALL!!!!

[dx100uk]

hey good result though shows what standing your ground does for you

 

now phase two!

 

we arewith you - well done so far.

 

dx

[twofoot]

Banks are very stubborn when it comes to refunds. I had a clear cut case of a cancelled DD and went through the banks own complaints procedure and they still refused a refund on the grounds that I could not prove I cancelled it with the drawer, even though they admitted it was cancelled in my bank. That is what you are up against. The only sure fire way to cancel is to close the account.

[cosmic13]

Morning

 

As promised I've had a read of the DD Guide. Not much in there with regards complaints from payers (I guess because it's written for the people taking your money!) but I have found reference to complaining to BACS who process all the payments. There is a bit on their website which might be useful. Serious breaches can result in service users being thrown out of the scheme... webite is... oh, can't post a web page as I haven't got enough posts! Try this without the spaces

 

bacs.co.uk / Bacs / Consumers / DirectDebit / HelpCentre / Pages

[Revenant]

Morning

 

As promised I've had a read of the DD Guide. Not much in there with regards complaints from payers (I guess because it's written for the people taking your money!) but I have found reference to complaining to BACS who process all the payments. There is a bit on their website which might be useful. Serious breaches can result in service users being thrown out of the scheme... webite is... oh, can't post a web page as I haven't got enough posts! Try this without the spaces

 

bacs.co.uk / Bacs / Consumers / DirectDebit / HelpCentre / Pages

 

 

http://www.bacs.co.uk/Bacs/Consumers/DirectDebit/HelpCentre/Pages/HelpCentre.aspx

 

Is that the right one

R

[cosmic13]

That's the one, thank you! Haven't read through the pages though as I'm supposed to be working!

[Revenant]

That's the one, thank you! Haven't read through the pages though as I'm supposed to be working!

 

 

So am I

[gem-100]

I would like some advice on what my best course of action would be for the following, I had a Tesco Loan of 25k six years ago, was paying ok every month until 8 months ago due to being made redundant, the loan was a ten year loan. Due to my new circumstances I paid Tesco 1.00 per month along with 7 other creditors, and then after six months made a full and final settlement offer to all my creditors, starting at 20% of the debt, this was being funded by a friend of mine to help get me out of debt and to help improve my situation and health etc, anyway Tesco refused the offer and passed the account to Triton, after several months the account is now with Incasso, (I have not been informed by Tesco that anyone else is dealing with this by the way).

I sent a cca request to Tesco, posted it on here, and was eventually told that the agreement was unenforceable, so I sent an account in dispute letter to Tesco in November and received no response to my letter, they had already passed to Triton, and my dispute letter crossed in the post with the First letter from Triton. For some reason Triton have given up on it, and the account appears to now be with Incasso. I sent Tesco a SAR request on 14th Feb as I really want to know what on earth is going on their end with it being passed around, it has also been with Green and co. Tesco acknowledged receipt of my SAR request on 8th March, I have still not received the requested information from them, and now Incasso have written saying that Tesco wont accept my full and final settlement offer, but will however accept 5800.00, which is around 50% of the debt, the payment is to made to Incasso, and I have until 4th April to make the payment. So what do I do?, I still have not had the SAR information, I do not know if Incasso should be dealing with this as Tesco have not informed me, and if I do not accept the offer and pay by the 4th, then in Incasso's words: Failure to make the payment by the date specified will result in the offer being withdrawn and legal action being taken for the recovery without any further notice to you. Please send your chq to this office made payable to Incasso etc. Any advice would be appreciated.

Edited March 30, 2011 by gem-100

[Bazooka Boo]

OK, I appreciate their time scales are limited, BUT, yours arent!

 

Triton I believe is Natwest, which may have under written Tesco Credit cards?

 

However by the by, YOU are NOT bound by THEIR time limits, that is purely something which they feel they need to impose upon themselves, so don't panic!

 

Incasso I believe is NOT an in house DCA used by Tesco, so....if you have not been informed by Tesco that they have now passed your account to Incasso, then either wait until they (Incasso) send their next begging letter & send them this http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/content.php?428-General-debt-letter-if-you-know-nothing-of-the-debt

 

OR you can send them that in reply to their last missive, it does NOT need to be sent via recorded delivery, but you MUST obtain "proof of posting" from the PO counter, this will be your valid legal proof that they received your letter, should you need it.

 

Green & Co IS 'Triton's' in house Sols, so next desk along, different letter heads!

 

The offer of a 50% F&F payment is extremely good in YOUR FAVOUR!! They either have NO paperwork in which they can 'legally' enforce this in a court, OR, they have to fabricate copies of previous alleged documents to produce in front of a court...(technically they have zero)....if they could demand the FULL payment from you, then they WILL, as it is, they are offering you a substantial reduction? I wonder why??

 

So suffice to say!

The letters you are unfortunately receiving have been printed by a computer, which cannot think, and the person who has told the computer what to print also..cannot think!

They are meaningless empty childish playground threats, which will all go away once an adult turns up on the scene to sort it all out!

 

There will be NO "recovery action" (your car isn't broken down is it?)

 

And there will definitely be NO legal action, not only can a DCA acting on behalf of a "Client" NOT take or instigate legal action, they don't even have the money to do so!

 

Ignore their puerile letters, read them as though they have been penned by a five year old holding you to ransom because they want a fluffy bunny!

There IS NOTHING to worry about...

[totiesquoties]

hi gem-100, ring national debtline, see their website www.nationaldebtline.co.uk telephone 0808 808 4000 mon fri 9a.m. to 9p.m.

and sat. 9.30a.m. to 1p.m. they will advise your next step they are excellent on financial matters and it is a free service, totiesquoties.

Edited March 30, 2011 by totiesquoties
word alteration

[gem-100]

Hi Bazooka Boo and totiesquoties, and thankyou for your reply. Ok understood about sending them the letter regarding not knowing of any debt owing to them, I have spoken to them on to inform them that I did not recognise who they were, I was still paying Tesco a pound a month (which I continue to do so), and I recorded the conversation on True call, I heard nothinf for a few weeks, then a duplicate letter of the first arrived, I again called them and explained, and I also explained that I had offered Tesco 20% in full and final settlement, Incasso said that they would not think that Tesco would accept less than 50%, I suggested that they ask Tesco, Incasso then proceeded to demand an I and E form, i said Tesco had received everything from me, and they should contact them for anything that had not been supplied, and left it at that, then today I receive the letter saying that Tesco would accept the amount of 5800.00 etc. One thing I cannot understand is that I requested the SAR on the 14th of Feb, Tesco acknowledged receipt on 8th March, and still I have received nothing, now I have been told on this site that the agreement is rubish, i have also been told on this site that the agreement is sound, I do not want to end up with it going legal, and I understand that as I placed the account in dispute on 19th November that Tesco should not have passed the account onto a third party, but Incasso say they are acting for Tesco, but until I receive something from Tesco to confirm this, then I really do not have a clue who ncasso are, and for them to ask for payment to be made in their name and not Tesco does concern me, so should I have received some sort of notice from Tesco?, and my aim is to get the full and final settlement figure as low as possible and to get the debt cleared, but just how far to go, I do not know if I have a good offer or not yet, I also owe a Tesco credit card that they have agreed to accept 1.00 per month on for the time being, and no doubt this will go the same route in the end, so it is in my interest to keep the final settlement as low as I can as I will prob have to offer the same percentage for the credit card, any guidance would be appreciated.

[the_shadow]

I'm afraid its difficult these days to say what is enforceable and what isnt, due to recent high court rulings and test cases the scales are skewed towards the industry rather than the defendant I'm afraid so I can agree with your comment about attempting to keep it out of the legal minefield.

 

Tescos have 40 days from receiving your SAR to respond to you with the information, if they miss that deadline make a complaint to the ICO via the website.

 

As to your F&F amount, I would always creep up rather than give my top whack repayment figure and I certainly wouldnt take their first offer, counter it with a slight increase to your repayment. If you have provided an I&E and the figures tally then where the hell do they think this extra money is coming from... a printing press at the bottom of the garden?

 

S.