Fare evasion / Someone else has used my season ticket

[papasmurf1cx]

Ok....... now that you have unburdened your soul.................... Keep your mouth shut and say nothing.

 

Let us know if you get the knock on the door at 4am!!!

[Lupe]

..I had already unburdened it on page 1 anyway! Thanks a lot for the advice, I will be sealing my mouth in the meantime.

[SRPO]

So you did know about its use, everything will now depend on what questions & answers were recorded during the interview of your friend.

If she implicates you (they usually do in the mistaken belief that it will be mitigation) then you may well end up with a summons, or at the least will lose the ticket & be refused a refund on the replacement tickets you have bought in the meantime.

By the way, the advice of 'keep your mouth shut' only works when there is no evidence against you.

The right to silence has effectively been removed & courts can draw their own conclusions on defendants that refuse to defend an allegation against them.

[Lupe]

hello everyone,

I hope you are all well.

Just a little update, to say that nothing has happened so far.

My friend is still waiting to receive a letter and I really don't know what I should do.

My monthly ticket has expired by now and I am currently buying weekly, which is more expensive of course.

I am not entirely sure I can start buying monthly tickets again, but I guess not.

Once I have made sure that I won't be able to buy monthly again until the issue has been settled with my friend, my question is, (also after having read other threads) should I contact the prosecution office and say, my friend has used my ticket, therefore I cannot renew my monthly ticket and this is very inconvenient etc etc. Do you think I may have a chance of sorting myself out this way? Do you think that would help?

Thanks very much in advance for any advice.

I am worried as I don't like to sit here and wait for something to happen so I would like to do anything I can to avoid any problems.

[Lupe]

Dear all,

Another update: my friend has received today the letter from the Prosecution Office asking her to provide within 14 days, in writing, any mitigating circumstances that may affect their decision for legal proceedings. The letter does not specify details about what happened, it just refers to it as an "accident".

 

I would like to help my friend if possible and I would very much appreciate it if you could please give me any advice/suggestions on how and what she should write in her letter...for example a good way of offering her sincere apologies, assurance that it will never happen again and her willingness to settle the issue without going to court. It would also be very helpful for me to understand what she should avoid saying that may not help her case.

 

Also, as far as my situation is concerned, do you think I should wait to do anything? I think I am still not able to renew my monthly ticket, and I wonder if I should talk to the ticket office and see if I am now able to get a renewal. On their records it showed that an investigation was being carried out on my monthly ticket, that is why they told me (just a few days after the incident) that they could not renew it for me and basically that I had to wait until the issue was resolved.

 

I hope to read soon your kind and always useful answers...thank you

[Wriggler7]

I do not see why you cannot renew your season ticket, you might need a new photocard, but nothing in your 'post' seems to prohibit you from walking in and buying a ticket.

 

If you feel 'embarrassed' about getting it from the station you normally visit, you should be made aware that you can get your ticket from any other station, and indeed any other railway. The ATOC agreements (between train operators) mean that any 'national rail' station should have facilities for the sale of any advertised train ticket. My understanding is that you can pop into Edinburgh Waverley and buy a monthly valid between Bristol & Exeter if you so desire.

[Grotesque]

Just make sure you have a ticket from Exeter to Edinburgh first 8-)

 

On a serious note, does their letter refer to an 'accident' (as you say) or an 'incident'?

 

Also by the nature of the letter being received, it would be fair to assume that the Investigation has now been concluded (and that, yes, there is a case to answer) so you should be no longer precluded from your usual purchase.

[Lupe]

Thank you very much wriggler and grotesque for your answers.

 

As for the letter, it probably says "incident", I must have got confused when I sent my previous post.

 

Would any of you be so kind as to give me any suggestions on what my friend should write in her letter in order to help her improve her case? She does not know anyone who can help with this and any advice would be precious.

Thanks very much in advance to anyone who will reply..and to everyone in this thread anyway, you have all been very kind and helpful.

[Grotesque]

Threads regarding allegations of fare evasion/ ticket irregularity on CAG are probably the only ones on the site where there are no happy endings; in most other sections there are 'ways out' and loopholes, but unfortunately here, it is the nature of the beast that by the time we hear of it a decision has almost always been taken to prosecute!

 

So (and not trying to palm you off here!) if look through most of the other threads, some of which are almost identical situations, you'll see that the bottom line is: MITIGATE MITIGATE MITIGATE.

 

Your friend really has to persuade the Railway prosecutor that prosecution is not in the Company's best interests and that their (and hers) best interests are served by not going to Court.

 

E.g., first offence, acceptance of guilt from outset, fulsome apology, unnecessary harm to career and life, and full financial recompense of whatever the Company asks.

 

Not very positive advice I'm afraid but there we are. Other Inspectors etc on the thread may provide more ddetail for you though! Take a gander through these other threads though eh.

 

Good luck to her.

[Lupe]

thanks a lot grotesque for your reply and advice, she will do that. I have had a look at similar threads and they are all on the same line..I just hope she will manage to settle the case without going to court. I was wondering whether the kind experts who posted on this thread earlier on had any more advice..?

[Lupe]

Hello,

 

I would like to share this with you as well... I think this forum has been helping me at least a little bit psychologically, as I am feeling very distressed about this even though I am not the one to have evaded the fare..

I mentioned earlier on that my friend told the inspector that she took the ticket by mistake and I, the owner, did not know about it.

As I said, I did in fact let her have my ticket, which I regret immensely, I did not think it through at the time, wasn't aware at all of the consequences.

I think my friend is panicking now, she is obviously disinformed and is not bothered to do some research on the best way to mitigate this and I think she wants to change her version and say that I gave it to her.

I have tried to give her the standard advice I have found on this forum, basically say that she is sorry and she is prepared to pay the full costs etc. However she is not listening to me because she thinks I am thinking selfishly and I think she is also listening to other people who in my opinion are giving her bad advice. I am not even sure if she is actually going to write back to them to try to mitigate.

Now at this point I am no more concerned about her that much - I really want to help her but I don't think she understands the whole situation and I have realised I can't help her...having said that, I am concerned about me now.

If and when it comes out that I gave it to her, do you think they will contact me? Do you think I will have trouble?

The incident happened when I was away on holiday, and I let her have the ticket the evening before when I was busy packing my stuff before leaving - I would have left the ticket at home anyway as I wasn't going to take it with me on holiday obviously, to avoid losing it etc.

I have been using monthly tickets for years, never got any fines, always paid my tickets, perfect record with the railway company...I am so worried, I feel so stupid and will never forget myself for such a silly mistake which can cost me more than I would have never imagined...

I really don't deserve this, I was just too weak to say no when she asked me and just did not want her to bear a grudge for this. How silly I was.

I feel so ashamed for even writing this here. Please, I would really need someone to tell me what they think...

[Old-CodJA]

If your friend insists on what she sees as trying to 'pass the buck', it is likely that she may decide to plead not guilty and want you to attend Court as a witness.

 

It is always the best policy to be truthful in these cases and as you have admitted to us that you did knowingly allow your friend to use your season ticket, it is likely that if you were charged and put under pressure by the prosecution, then you would admit it.

 

If the company decided that they had sufficient evidence to charge you, then the charge would be that you did breach National Railway Byelaw 22.2 (2005) which states:

 

22.2) No person shall transfer or produce a ticket on behalf of another person intending to enable that other person to travel without having paid the correct fare.

 

This is a strict liability matter. The maximum penalty is a fine of up to £1000, but you would not be fined anywhere near that amount if found guilty of a first offence.

Your mitigation could be that you were put under pressure by your friend to let her use your ticket, you were going away on holiday and were not aware that she had actually done so until you returned. You might say that, had you been at home you would have tried to dissuade her but did not want to compromise a lengthy freindship and had left the ticket with her under duress. You may point out that you have a perfect record up until that time, that you apologise unreservedly and realise the stupidity of this uncharacteristic mistake.

 

If you admitted your part and responded like that, it is quite possible that you would get a conditional discharge, or very likely a small fine.

 

You could write to the rail company in those terms and it is possible that they might decide to deal with any evidence against you without taking you to court.

 

The fact is that it would not alter the evidence that your friend had committed a much more serious offence.

 

Having not paid her rail fare, she actually did use your season ticket with the intention to avoid payment of the fare that she knew was due and was caught in the act.

 

.

Edited October 8, 2010 by Old-CodJA

[Grotesque]

This is a good opportunity to sound off like you've got a pair.

 

At the end of the day the only thing that stands up in court is evidence: not allegations. And allegations from the accused (unless an IRA super-grass ) carry very little weight.

 

It's her problem: perhaps you misunderstood her etc in the pressure of preparing for holiday. but you cannot get convicted of not issuing a direct instruction in this matter!

 

Of course that might leave her open to a charge of theft and fraud by impersonation but that'll be for another thread.

 

 

[Old-CodJA]

This is a good opportunity to sound off like you've got a pair.

 

At the end of the day the only thing that stands up in court is evidence: not allegations. And allegations from the accused (unless an IRA super-grass ) carry very little weight.

 

It's her problem: perhaps you misunderstood her etc in the pressure of preparing for holiday. but you cannot get convicted of not issuing a direct instruction in this matter!

 

Of course that might leave her open to a charge of theft and fraud by impersonation but that'll be for another thread.

 

 

 

 

That's absolutely right. I am always a strong advocate of telling the truth. You cannot get caught out if you are stating exactly what happened.

 

Sometimes, it means you might suffer a little yourself, but rarely in matters as low level as this

 

Grotesque is spot-on, you could only be convicted of the Byelaw offence if you admit it in this case

 

Factually, I never advise being untruthful, BUT, if you were to stick to your story that you did not know she was going to use your ticket, there would be no hard evidence that you did.

 

It would be your word against hers and you might find she is less freindly in future, but she certainly wouldn't put you in the same position again and you would have learned a very valuable lesson.

 

Good luck

[Lupe]

thanks a lot old-codJA and Grotesque...I have already learned and suffered so much that I think I have paid enough already, but the worst is still to come, although I still have some hope...

 

Of course I have every intention of telling the truth, I am an honest person and could never do otherwise.

How serious is it to be convicted of a Bylaw offence? Is it going to have any consequences on my future?

 

Thank you old-codJA for your advice and information. When you say that I could just get a "conditional discharge" or a small fine, does that mean that I would not be prosecuted and they would not keep a record of me?

I am prepared to deal with all this, but I don't want to pay more than I deserve to.

 

Also, how long do you think this is all going to take? As far as I understand, my friend's case would be dealt with within 6 months from the offence, is that right? Can it take longer?

[Surfer01]

I don't want to sound nasty, but do you really need friends like this who are prepared to drop you in it in the hope that the blame wil be passed to you? You can't choose you relatives but you can choose your friends.