Just started a PPI claim...Natwest/RBS Loan

[peejay1977]

Hi all,

 

I have tried going through the raft of information on here and Google about PPI so apologies if I shouldn't have posted this. Just looking for some friendly advice (hopefully I won't need it).

 

Basically the story goes, I took out a pretty substantial loan with Natwest 4 years ago over a 7year period. At the time of taking it out the advisor in the branch asked if I'd like PPI and started to give me the sales pitch about "being out of work and how it would pay for the loan etc". I told her I wasn't interested as I have a very secure job. She then went down the "well if you're taken ill" route but I still insisted I wasn't interested. After looking at her computer screen for a while she then told me :

 

"Due to the sizeable loan amount, we would need you to have the PPI with it".

 

Which to be honest at the time, I was in a hurry sounded plausible as it is alot of money so I agreed to the PPI as I needed the loan. Fast forward to now, I've heard all the stuff about missold PPI but I refuse to use these companies, that, to me are no better than ambulance chasers, so I wrote it off as a mistake on my part but the more I thought about it, now informed of the rules, I got more angry at being blatently lied to, so I rang my bank today to ask them to cancel the PPI, they were very quick once they realised I was unhappy about being missold it to ask me to ring another department on a Manchester number to register a complaint. I didnt even mention wanting to make a complaint but they wanted to distance themselves from it completely.

 

Anyway, I rang this 0161 number who apparently deal with these issues for Natwest and RBS and registered my complaint and apparently I should hear something within the next 8 weeks. I am also waiting for a call from my branch to get the PPI cancelled for the short term.

 

Question is, have I done enough? Is there anything else I should be doing? I feel slightly guilty about persuing this as I'm not a money grabber, but at the same time I know the banks are pretty ruthless and I can honestly say hand on heart what I claim was said by the advisor, is the truth.

 

Cheers

 

Paul.

[Bigmac versus]

Hi Paul you have paid for something you didnt want so you could obtain a loan. That is wrong and you are due back what you have paid plus interest, so your complaint regarding PPI has been registered over the phone, i would follow that up with a letter also m8 just in case. Your not the money grabber they are and remember that.

[dx100uk]

click on the blue ppi payment protection insurance link up the top here

then do some reading of the stickys

particularly:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?61081

 

you are entitled to the fee you have paid every month for PPI + 8% stat int from the date EACH MONTH your paid it, to the date of your claim

 

you are also entitled to have the 'remaining' unpaid [yet] PPI removed from your outstanding balance figure.

 

do not be enticed into signing a new agreement, your existing one should be restructured, with lower montly payment for the equivalent [same] loan period you signed up too.

 

if you get no joy within 8 weeks of sending your letter

 

off the the FOS you go.

 

dx

.

[peejay1977]

Thanks folks, appreciate the advice. Apparently my local branch are the only ones who can cancel the PPI and remove it from the agreement but the 2 hour call back is now over 24 hours....

 

According to Natwests "branch support" yesterday they don't have direct lines to the branches and can only send a message on "the system" to get them to call me, that was at about 2pm yesterday. Called again this morning at 9:45am and was told the same thing and they would send an urgent message on the system for someone to ring me. Still havent heard anything so I phoned again, was told they DO have direct lines to the branches but they arent allowed to give them out.

 

He then rang the branch while I was on hold and didnt get an answer........so gave me there direct number!!!!

 

I'm also unable to get through and by the time I finish work they will be closed.

[dx100uk]

what a loan of cobblers!

 

local branch only.

 

stop paying it aswell!

 

dx

[peejay1977]

lol @ dx100uk

 

Well I cant get any other answer out of them other than "only your local branch can cancel the PPI". Apparently the lending department cant do it either.

 

And I STILL cant get through on the phone.

 

I cant stop paying it as its taken in one lump sum each month as part of the loan repayment....

[dx100uk]

please you are letting these monkeys give you the run around.

look on the natwest forum stickys for the head office

 

and send them a LETTER stating that your wish to reclaim the mis-sold PPI

[include your spreadsheet]

and that from the date of this letter it is to be cancelled forwith.

 

dx

[peejay1977]

this is proving painful. Purely for comedy value I've got to list the events so far. Excuse the waffle but its allowing me to calm down typing it out!

 

Phone call to Natwest Branch Support #1

Me : "Hi, I'd like to cancel the PPI on my Natwest loan please"

Them : "Ok we can't do that for you but I'll pass you through to the lending department"

Me : "Thanks"

* I was then cut off.....

 

Phone call to Natwest Branch Support #2

Me : "Hi, I'd like to cancel the PPI on my Natwest loan please"

Them : "Ok we can't do that for you but I'll pass you through to the lending department"

Me : "Thanks"

* Put through to the lending team.

Me : "Hi, I'd like to cancel the PPI on my Natwest loan please"

Them : "Ok can I ask why sir?"

Me : "Yes, basically when I took out the loan I was told I HAD to have the PPI due to the size of the loan"

* Sudden apologetic and VERY dismissive tone.

Them : "I'm very sorry you were missold this Mr Jones, I'd advise you to ring this number to make a claim"

Me : "Erm, ok I didnt ring up to make a claim but ok, thanks"

 

Phone call to 3rd Party claims department who handle PPI claims for Natwest and RBS

Me : "Hi, I was given this number as I was missold the PPI on my Natwest loan"

Them : "Ok Mr Jones I'll take some details"

* Details taken

Me : "Ok cool, thanks I'll wait to hear, while we are talking can you please cancel the PPI so that I'm not paying for this any further"

Them : "Unfortunately Mr Jones we only deal with PPI claims, you need to call the lending department for this"

Me : "Ok thanks"

 

Phone call to Natwest Lending Department

Me : "I'd like to cancel the PPI on my Natwest loan please"

Them : "Unfortunately we can't do that, you need to speak to your local branch as they are the only ones who can"

Me : "Ok whats their number?"

Them : "We don't have direct lines to the branches but I'll send a message through on the system and they will call you back within 2 hours"

Me : "Ok thanks"

 

* That was 2pm yesterday

 

Phone call to Natwest Branch Support #3 (9:45am today)

Me : "I've been waiting for a call back from my branch but as yet nothing"

Them : "Unfortunatrly we don't have direct lines to the branches but I'll send a message through on the system and they will call you back within 2 hours"

Me : "Ok thanks"

 

* Nothing

 

Phone call to Natwest Branch Support #4 (12:30pm today)

Me : "I've been waiting for a call back from my branch but as yet nothing, and apparently you dont have direct lines to the branches which I find ridiculous"

Them : "Erm, we do have direct lines Mr Jones we just arent allowed to give them out, I'll ring them now and then put you through"

* 5 minute wait on hold

Them : "Unfortunately they arent answering their phones, heres there direct number....."

 

* 4 hours of constant ringing and no answer

 

Phone call to Natwest Branch Support #5 (15:00pm today)

Me : "Sorry for sounding annoyed but I've been waiting for a call from my branch since yesterday and still nothing, please can you try and put me through"

Them : "Ok sir I will try, thats all i can do for you"

* Cut off......

 

Phone call to Natwest Branch Support #6 (15:10pm today)

Me : "Right, I'm sorry to have a go at you but I'm really getting annoyed with this now, why cant someone put me in touch with my branch?"

Them : "Can I ask what its regarding sir?"

Me : "Yes, I just want to cancel the PPI on my Natwest loan but apparently only my branch can do it"

Them : "Oh no, thats not right sir you need to ring this 0800 number, and by the way there is no such thing as a 2hour call back, its a 24hour call back"

Me : "Ok fine, thanks"

 

Phone call to Natwest PPI Insurance number

Me : "I'd like to cancel the PPI on my Natwest loan please"

* Explains my saga

Them : "Ok I'm very sorry for this sir, you should have been told this yesterday, because you are on an old style loan thats been phased out, you need to send us a letter instructing us to cancel the PPI, this usually takes 7-10 working days from receipt of your letter"

Me : "Well if I'd been told that yesterday I could have already had the letter in the post"

Them : "I know sir I'm very sorry about that"

 

Jesus wept. I need a drink....

 

please you are letting these monkeys give you the run around.

look on the natwest forum stickys for the head office

 

and send them a LETTER stating that your wish to reclaim the mis-sold PPI

[include your spreadsheet]

and that from the date of this letter it is to be cancelled forwith.

 

dx

 

Thanks dx, I'm gonna get this letter sent off to cancel the PPI as per the long winded post I just put and im expecting to hear about the PPI claim very shortly, will keep you updated as I'd like to think all this hard work will be worth it in the end.

 

[peejay1977]

No word as yet from the department looking into my claim. I sent off a recorded letter yesterday instructing them to cancel the PPI as of immediately. Hopefully I will get acknowledgement of that within 7-10 days as they suggest. Looked up the loan agreement last night and the PPI is £96 a month so hopefully once this is cancelled the extra cash will come in handy.

[dx100uk]

urm....

 

£96 PCM

 

thats a tidy sum re:

 

http://www.egalegal.com/compoundWindow.html

 

dx

[peejay1977]

Cheers DX but that calculator is double dutch to me and the explanation at the bottom has confuzzled me lol

[dx100uk]

principle is the £96

int = 8%

start date is the date {each month] you paid it

claim date is 'when' [let say 10th] you put your claim in

rests = 12

 

do that for every £96 for every month's date you paid it

 

put the results into a spreadsheet or word table

note the int charges

and the total

and the sum

 

dx

[peejay1977]

Cheers DX, that works out about 6 grand! I have a feeling I'm gonna get a letter telling me to go jump off a pier, but hey ho we'll see.

[dx100uk]

why

 

i don't know of any PPI claim that now fails esp as you have the agreement.

thats the key doc, if it gets to the FOS, they will DEF uphold the claim

 

i think you are in for a big suprise.

 

dx

[peejay1977]

I guess its just the cynic in me Dx, the banks and other organisations always seem to have the law on their side so I guess I'm used to hearing about people being unsuccessful in getting what they deserve but I'm going to be positive and stick with it see what happens.

 

I may owe you a beer at the end of this lol

[peejay1977]

No real progress on this yet, I've still not heard in regards to my complain even though I was told I would be sent an acknowledgement letter out. I've just rung them, a deppartment for the RBS Group called "PPI Concerns" they are receiving 3000+ calls a week so are anything up to a week behind in even entering complaints on the system. Basically my complaint isnt yet registered on the system and I should ring back on Friday.

 

He also mentioned they are very far behind on the actual claims themselves so I shouldnt expect to have this resolved quickly and they are taking up to 12 weeks to get most cases resolved.

 

Watch this space.

[dx100uk]

did you send a letter and a copy of your spreadsheet?

 

tbh: i'd do it that way rather that all by phone

 

dx

[peejay1977]

Cheers DX, I havent as yet, I thought I'd wait to see what they came back with. I'm also not sure I've worked out the figures right or not. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and see what happened....I'm too passive sometimes lol

 

The plot thickens, after telling me today that they are 4-5 days behind on even entering these details on the system I just came home to this :

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Payment Protection Insurance policy with NatWest

 

Policyholder : Mr P Jones

 

Thank you for your letter dated 02 September 2010.

 

Unfortunately we are unable to progress this matter further as you have not provided us with details of the specific policy or loan account number you wish to complain about.

 

Please can you provide us with the appropriate policy number or loan account number that you believe were missold, please also re-send your enclosed correspondence. Once these details have been confirmed we will proceed to investigate the complaint fully.

 

Some notes I'd like to add :

 

a.) There was no letter sent to them, this was happened via the telephone on the 02 September 2010.

b.) What enclosed correspondence? I haven't sent any....to be able to resend it.

 

What has annoyed me is they have wasted nearly a week on this yet they have both my home and mobile phone numbers and could have just called to find out, clearly this is a "can't be bothered" or stalling tactic.

 

And at the time I raised the complaint via the phone(as this was the only means I was given to raise it) the guy asked if I had the loan account number, I didnt as I was at work but my online back shows the loan account number as being the same as my bank account number.

 

I told him this and offered to dig the original paperwork out once I got home and called back. He insisted this was not necessary as I only have 1 loan and would be able to find this out using my bank details. Clearly he lied, or has been misinformed in his role.

 

I'm already getting sick of this, and they close at 5pm so this is going to have to wait till the morning. Will keep you lot updated.

 

Paul.

[dx100uk]

thats why, sadly, you need to read up on how to do things properly

 

it's just that its a tried and tested method, that has, over the years, gotten itself streamlined here at CAG, to by-pass as best we can all the little 'stalling tactics' these fleecers try.

 

i'll leave you to read the stickys on the ppi forum homepage

then you'll seew hat i mean

 

dx

siteteam

[peejay1977]

Thanks DX, sorry for appearing to be a spanner, I've clearly got too much faith in human beings/organisations lol

 

I was about to read the template letters etc but unfortunately a check on my online banking has thrown the spreadsheet completely out the window, I wonder if you could cast your eyes over this and give me some feedback. I feel ill prepared to argue a particular point so would appreciate knowing exactly where I stand.

 

Basically I logged onto my online banking this morning and noticed my loan amount (remaining) was less than it should be. I then noticed that in addition to my payment of £456.34 that they took by direct debit on the 2nd of September as per usual, there were 2 more dated yesterday for :

 

£231.61

£840.13

 

I rang the Lending Department and asked if this was to do with my letter instructing them to cancel the PPI immediately. The guy stated yes that was correct and that the larger amount was the amount of PPI left to pay on my loan over the next 32 months and the 231 was the interest I would have paid on it.

 

I queried this amount as my loan agreement states the following :

 

84 monthly payments of £456.34 : of which £360.15 is my loan and £96.19 is PPI and the interest rate is 6.8%. Thats exactly what it states and also states the total amount payable for the PPI is a whopping £8079.96 which is 84 lots of £96.19.

 

When I queried the amount and told him that as far as I'm concerned it should be 32 lots of £96.19 that have been removed from the loan he twice put me on hold and made reference to "the rule of 78" and instructed me to Google it. He then went on to explain that the way PPI works is that its on a sliding scale and that you pay more at the beginning of the loan and it gets reduced each month, as the loan is less of a risk to the bank over time so the amount paid back onto my loan was indeed correct.

 

The logical person in me says this is nonsense, if you sign an agreement as stated above then thats what it should be. He wouldnt/couldnt discuss the matter any further and referred me to a booklet that "would have been sent in the post at the time of the loan starting" and would have explain this sliding scale clearly.

 

Any help would be gratefully appreciated, I'm going to do some digging online on here etc but to make sure I interpret the advice correctly I'd appreciate some comment.

 

Many Thanks

 

 

Paul.

[dx100uk]

what....

i too think this is a load of bull!

 

i think he is trying to explain away the figures, not knowing what they are actually for...

 

i think the figures are what has been 'deducted' from the loan for what you 'would' have paid for the whole ppi had you not now terminated

 

you still have the 'refund' of your £96's that you HAVE paid to come yet directly to your pocket.

 

not done the figures but thats what i think is has gone on

 

more later if i get time.

 

dx

siteteam

[peejay1977]

Thats DX, appreciate it. It sound like hogwash to me, if the PPI payment is indeed calculated and reduced every month over the course of the loan repayment (which is contrary to the loan agreement I have stating equal payments) then its a pretty steep scale they are working on.

 

The loan agreement states the total PPI payable over the course of the 84 months is £8079.69. They have refunded me £1071.74 which is allegedly what I would have paid in PPI and interest if I had paid the PPI till the end date of the loan. Deducting that figure from the total PPI cost leaves just over 7grand for easy reckoning.

 

So they are trying to state that in the first 4 years of the policy I paid £7000 worth of PPI payments, and in the next 3 years I'll be paying the other £1000. That to me, is a pretty uneven and slightly unbelievable "scale" if ever I saw one.

 

Be interesting to see if when the claim reaches the point of a settlement whether it will tally up with this refund, although the cynic in me says it wont and I will still be left short. As far as I'm concerned if I only had £1000 left to pay on the PPI over the next 3 years, they owe me just over 7grand, plus 8% interest.

 

Watch this space......and thanks for your patience!

[peejay1977]

Just to add more to this, I made a speculative call to the FOS regarding the PPI cancellation and the guy on the phone stated that he understood the wording of the loan agreement as I did, i.e. 84 payments of 96.19 for the PPI and even went as far as to say "if they have refunded you £1071 then they still owe you just over 7000 pounds". He was a VERY helpful chap.

 

He took some details and has sent me out a questionairre and a letter to send to Natwest, which is probably similar to the template letters here. He also said that there comment that matters are taking up to 12 weeks to resolve is against the regulations and they are obliged to at least send there "Final Position" letter within the 8 weeks, if not the FOS can get involved straight away, or sooner if I get the final word from Natwest.

 

Looking at the loan agreement the repayments are clearly marked as I mentioned above so I dont see how they can wriggle out of that, plus examples on the FOS website suggest my way of interpreting it are accurate as well.

 

I've just been reading through the T's and C's of the loan agreement/PPI and this statement caught my eye under the "Definitions" section :

 

Agreement - Your loan agreement with the Bank. There must be no more than 120 monthly repayments due under the agreement. The total amount insured must not exceed £25,000.

 

The loan amount was for £30,600 with £8k of PPI added on top. Hmmm.....

[peejay1977]

Hi all,

 

Nothing much to report, to add the subject of Natwest stating they calculate the PPI payments contrary to the Credit Agreement this is a letter I received today :

 

I write further to your recent instruction to cancel your loan insurance, and can now confirm that this has been actioned as requested.

 

Please note that, when you cancel the Loan Account Insurance, your monthly repayment figure will not reduce by the amount of the monthly insurance payment that is quoted on your Consumer Credit Act Agreement form.

 

This is because the repayments for insurance are higher at the start of the loan, due to the risk involved, and lower at the end of the loan. Therefore the longer the loan has been operating and receiving the benefit of the protector insurance cover the less the monthly repayments will reduce.

 

As a result your next monthly repayment will remain unchanged however all subsequent payments will be £421.77.

 

Surely this isn't legal? Thats like me deciding to alter how much the loan repayment is off my own back, they wouldnt stand for it and I'm certain they would quote the credit agreement as the binding contract.

 

In effect it appears they are admitting that I signed a document to agree to something, which they openly acknowledge was false? I'm hoping this fans the flames in my favour as I'm even more infuriated now by this.

 

Watch this space.

 

Paul.

[peejay1977]

Still nothing to report and this claim has now been with RBS/Natwest for 19weeks. The FOS are on the case and Natwest advised me after 12weeks to do so but I had already done this at the 8week mark. I had a letter from the FOS this week stating the case has finally been passed to one of there adjudicators but it might "be a while, maybe 2 months" so I'll hopefully hear in due course. 19 weeks on and I haven't had anything from RBS/Natwest for quite a while so I'm considering ringing them and asking whats going on but I have a feeling I'll get a fairly standard reply.

 

I'll keep people posted.

 

Paul.