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    • Hi CAG,   First time poster here.   I would like to start off by saying that I've read through various threads and it's quite heartwarming to see the level of attention and support you give to people dealing with often stressful and anxiety inducing circumstances. I'll certainly be making a donation as this is truly a valuable resource.   I've read several similar threads to my own situation but I thought I'd seek your advice.   I opened a letter just a few hours ago from London Collection and Compliance Centre which is dated 11th January 2022 for an amount totalling £870.68. I'll attach a copy below. I can't quite remember the date of the initial offence. For context, I boarded a bus (I believe in 2018) and unbeknownst to me, my contactless card did not register correctly on the reader. I had my headphones in with music playing and was sat for my journey and then was approached by a ticket inspector who informed me that I did not tap and therefore was unable to provide proof of a valid ticket. Despite explaining the circumstances, I was asked for my details which I provided in full. I was honest and forthcoming with the ticket inspector but I wasn't aware this would amount to a fine as I was provided with a printed pass for the remainder of my journey. I accept liability for not being able to provide proof of a valid ticket and do not wish to dispute this regardless of intent.    I'm not entirely sure why I didn't pay the fine upon receipt of TfL's initial correspondence but I'm a long time sufferer of anxiety and depression which at times is so debilitating that I'm unable to make the best decisions or carry out simple actions. Some of which would mean I wouldn't need to make this post. I struggled financially at the time of receiving this letter and further correspondence which placed I did not deal with correctly because of the mental state I was in. I struggled to cope with and stupidly I neglected my responsibility and buried my head in the sand. I made an error in judgement that I wholeheartedly regret.   As of writing (early hours of 26th January 2022), the 10 working days given in the 'Further steps notice' has elapsed (25th January 2022). I rarely receive mail and therefore I don't regularly check my mailbox. However, I decided to take a look today as I suspected I missed a Royal Mail delivery. I intend on calling the number on the letter at the earliest appropriate time in the morning and dealing with this matter. I'm desperate to right my previous wrongs as I've worked hard to deal with my anxiety by beginning therapy. However, like many others in this thread, I'm worried about the prospect of having a criminal record. I'm 26 years only and I don't have any previous convictions nor have I had any trouble with the law. I have a real love for the service TfL provides and I'm capable of listing off an endless stream of related trivia. I have no previous run ins with TfL and regularly travel on the network and pay the correct, full fare each time.    I'm worried about how this will affect my future in regards to employment and my intention of naturalising as a British citizen (I've been in the UK for 20 years now).   I'll note my primary questions below and would truly appreciate your advice.   a) If I get in contact with the number on the letter as soon as possible, will that be too late despite the close proximity to the deadline?   b) What would be the best potential approach to resolving this issue? (I'm unable to pay the amount in as a lump sum.)   c) If I were successful in arranging a payment plan/somehow paying the amount in full, how would that affect the court proceedings? Would this still result in a criminal record?   d) I've seen other threads which mention OOC settlements with TfL, would this be an option despite receipt of a 'Further steps notice' letter?   e) Should I end up in court or have the opportunity to speak to someone over the phone - will I be able to explain my circumstance and plead for leniency?   f) What other general steps would you suggest I take at this stage to mitigate the consequences?   Apologies for this post being so long, I wanted to include as much relevant detail as possible and I'm more than happy to provide any that's missing. I don't want to make excuses for myself. I completely accept I'm in the wrong for allowing things to get to this stage, despite the difficulty I had with my mental state but I want to do right by myself and deal with this. I'll post regular updates and be sure to include a conclusion once I deal with the matter regardless of the outcome.   Thank you in advance for looking at this post, I really do appreciate what you do.   IMG_2609.pdf
    • The worrying aspect is that they could well run away ... then a few months down the line, knowing full well you'd moved, sue you at your old address, knowing you would lose by default.  Therefore I suggest sending the above letter off on Thursday if the other regulars don't disagree, then on Saturday another one to just UKPM     Dear UK Car Park Management Limited,   re: PCN no.XXXXX   please note that I no longer live at XXXXX but that my new address is XXXXX.   Yours,
    • How about -     Dear Will & John,   Re: your reference XXXXX, vehicle registration XXXXX   cheers for your Letter Before Claim.  I rolled around on the floor in mirth at the idea you thought I would actually take such bilge seriously and then cough up.   Now you know and I know and now you know that I know all the reasons why these residential parking claims are utter pants.   Your thicko client, UKPM, have been hammered in court so many times in these cases, but if they haven't learnt their lesson and want another thrashing, fine, bring it on.   I see the government this week dropped tests for fully-vaccinated travellers returning to the UK, so if your client is daft enough to take me to court then I will delight in tolchocking them, then obtaining an unreasonable costs order under CPR 27.14(2)(g), spending it all on a foreign holiday, and then laughing at your client's expense while I down my aperitivi.   I look forward to your deafening silence.   COPIED TO UK CAR PARK MANAGEMENT LIMITED     Gladstone's and UKPM are well aware of where these letters originate from and that they would have a real battle on in court, so lately have always run away ... although of course there are no guarantees.   However, hang on through tomorrow and see what the other regulars think.
    • 'Walk the ice, take risks and do it quickly'View the full article
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DCA Harassment Yet Again!


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Another horror story caused by a DCA bully-boy (cannot idenitfy at this stage as we have got our MP involved and are looking at legal action and media exposure). The DCA which owns the debt has a track record of pursuing people who are the wrong debtor.

 

My mother-in-law is 79, disabled, in very poor health and vulnerable. Back in 2007 she had a heart bypass operation and whilst we were staying with her whilst she was recuperating at home we noticed she was getting phone calls that were distressing her. Eventually she told us she had been paying £5.00 a month to a DCA since 2002, wasn't sure what the debt was for (she has no other debt) but now the DCA was demanding higher payments and wouldn't accept her plea that she was not in any physical or mental state to sort this out. I ended up speaking to the DCA with her permission and they were unbelievable (usual bully boy moron on the other end of the phone) - they only agreed to stop calling when I threatened to call the police.

 

The DCA told me the debt was for a electronics store card and for £2,500, which they were collecting for another DCA who owned the debt (having been assigned to them by the OC). I was pretty sure this was not her debt so we CCA'd the DCA and did not receive anything back. The DCA eventually responded to an e-mail and confirmed they couldn't supply any paperwork - no agreement, no statements and no NOA.

 

3 years later another DCA has contacted my mother-in-law. They have stated they are collecting for the DCA who owns the debt and threatened court action and sent a series of extremely threatening letters - and started the phone calls. I sent them a reminder that the owning DCA had failed to provide a copy of the agreement in 2007 and also sent authorisation under the DPA from my mother-in-law that they only deal with me, as the whole issue is distressing her.

 

We have now received a letter from the owning DCA - they have sent this to my mother-in-law, despite her request they deal only with me. They have admitted they cannot provide any paperwork relating to the debt, but as payments were made this debt had been acknowledged and therefore, although they weren't going to take legal action at the moment, the debt still needs to be paid.

 

It is pretty clear that the owning DCA are well aware, and have been since the origjnal CCA request in 2007, that they cannot supply the agreement. However they have appointed another DCA to threaten legal action, and are still implying that they can take legal action themselves - all the time without an agreement. They have also provided data to two third parties without express permission from my mother-in-law (i.e. in the absence of an agreement) so have breached the DPA.

 

At the moment the phone calls continue and the owning DCA refuses to deal with me - clearly they think they are going to get more money by harassing a sick and vulnerable OAP.

WOOLWICH -S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) sent 03/03/07 :cool:

LBA sent for non-compliance with Data Protection Act 28/04/07 :mad:

 

ABBEY - S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) sent 03/03/07 8)

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This just shows the whole rotten stinking process of Debt collection and the "buying and selling" of debts which any proper govt would IMMDIATELY MAKE ILLEGAL.

 

I really would attempt to take this lot to court and throw every possible Civil claim against them for unjust harrassment -- and I'd see if some decent SOL could see if there was a CRIMINAL CASE of extortion to answer as well.

 

This next sentence might get removed by the mods but just google what a little bit of sugar can do in a cars petrol tank -- draw your own conclusions.

 

I am SO sick of DCA's etc Hounding victimless people that sometimes to me we should go down the French route of "manning the Barricades" -- but being the UK we probably wont.

 

How anybody gets LEGAL PROTECTION by harassing pensioners is utterly beyond belief in a so called civilised society in 21st century -- but I think caggers realize there is one law for the banks and another for the rest of us.

 

Cheers

jimbo

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If your MIL has any legal expenses cover with her Home Insurance, worth seeing if this would cover her to take any action against the DCA concerned. Most legal expenses is fairly limited but it is worth having a quick read.

 

No doubt your MP will get to the bottom of this. Could be a fraudulent transaction, but you will only find out if the original creditor provides the information.

We could do with some help from you.

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Sounds like the same DCA which hounded Mrs Beryl Brazier until she killed herself - THAMES CREDIT - wasn't her debt either, but they didn't care.NO DCA cares, as long as they can get someone to pay

I am a lawyer, but I am an academic lawyer. I do not practice as a barrister or solicitor. You should consult a practising Solicitor BEFORE taking any Court or other action

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Thanks for the replies everyone.

 

Don't worry, as they won't get away with this - the whole family is furious about their actions, so have a cunning plan!!! We've contacted the police and are also taking legal advice (thanks for the suggestion about exploring whether this might be a case of criminal extortion, Jimbo).

 

I remember the tragic case of poor Mrs Brazier - an example of how these **** can push people into absolute desperation. Those of us lucky enough to have support from CAG may have lost our fear of DCAs and can see them for what they are, but sadly there are still plenty of people who are easily bullied and intimidated.

WOOLWICH -S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) sent 03/03/07 :cool:

LBA sent for non-compliance with Data Protection Act 28/04/07 :mad:

 

ABBEY - S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) sent 03/03/07 8)

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Subbing with a vested interest to reading this in all the broadsheets and red tops, the harassment is a criminal offence as is using the phone, this falls under the communications act, which they will have breached.

Then there is the fraud act, and the disability discrimination act, protection from harassment act blah blah blah..........

1 Prohibition of harassment

 

(1) A person must not pursue a course of conduct—

(a) which amounts to harassment of another, and

(b) which he knows or ought to know amounts to harassment of the other.

(2) For the purposes of this section, the person whose course of conduct is in question ought to know that it amounts to harassment of another if a reasonable person in possession of the same information would think the course of conduct amounted to harassment of the other.

(3) Subsection (1) does not apply to a course of conduct if the person who pursued it shows—

(a) that it was pursued for the purpose of preventing or detecting crime,

(b) that it was pursued under any enactment or rule of law or to comply with any condition or requirement imposed by any person under any enactment, or

© that in the particular circumstances the pursuit of the course of conduct was reasonable.

2 Offence of harassment

 

(1) A person who pursues a course of conduct in breach of section 1 is guilty of an offence.

(2) A person guilty of an offence under this section is liable on summary conviction to imprisonment for a term not exceeding six months, or a fine not exceeding level 5 on the standard scale, or both.

(3) In section 24(2) of the [1984 c. 60.] Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984 (arrestable offences), after paragraph (m) there is inserted—

“(n) an offence under section 2 of the Protection from Harassment Act 1997 (harassment).”.

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts1997/ukpga_19970040_en_1

 

1 Offence of sending letters etc. with intent to cause distress or anxiety

 

(1) Any person who sends to another person—

(a) a letter or other article which conveys—

(i) a message which is indecent or grossly offensive;

(ii) a threat; or

(iii) information which is false and known or believed to be false by the sender; or

(b) any other article which is, in whole or part, of an indecent or grossly offensive nature,

is guilty of an offence if his purpose, or one of his purposes, in sending it is that it should, so far as falling within paragraph (a) or (b) above, cause distress or anxiety to the recipient or to any other person to whom he intends that it or its contents or nature should be communicated.

(2) A person is not guilty of an offence by virtue of subsection (1)(a)(ii) above if he shows—

(a) that the threat was used to reinforce a demand which he believed he had reasonable grounds for making; and

(b) that he believed that the use of the threat was a proper means of reinforcing the demand.

(3) In this section references to sending include references to delivering and to causing to be sent or delivered and “sender” shall be construed accordingly.

(4) A person guilty of an offence under this section shall be liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding level 4 on the standard scale.

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts1988/Ukpga_19880027_en_1

 

127Improper use of public electronic communications network E+W+S+N.I.

 

(1)A person is guilty of an offence if he—

 

(a)sends by means of a public electronic communications network a message or other matter that is grossly offensive or of an indecent, obscene or menacing character; or

 

(b)causes any such message or matter to be so sent.

 

(2)A person is guilty of an offence if, for the purpose of causing annoyance, inconvenience or needless anxiety to another, he—

 

(a)sends by means of a public electronic communications network, a message that he knows to be false,

 

(b)causes such a message to be sent; or

 

©persistently makes use of a public electronic communications network.

 

(3)A person guilty of an offence under this section shall be liable, on summary conviction, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding six months or to a fine not exceeding level 5 on the standard scale, or to both.

 

(4)Subsections (1) and (2) do not apply to anything done in the course of providing a programme service (within the meaning of the Broadcasting Act 1990 (c. 42)).

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2003/21/contents

 

2Fraud by false representation E+W+N.I.

 

(1)A person is in breach of this section if he—

 

(a)dishonestly makes a false representation, and

 

(b)intends, by making the representation—

 

(i)to make a gain for himself or another, or

 

(ii)to cause loss to another or to expose another to a risk of loss.

 

(2)A representation is false if—

 

(a)it is untrue or misleading, and

 

(b)the person making it knows that it is, or might be, untrue or misleading.

 

(3)“Representation” means any representation as to fact or law, including a representation as to the state of mind of—

 

(a)the person making the representation, or

 

(b)any other person.

 

(4)A representation may be express or implied.

 

(5)For the purposes of this section a representation may be regarded as made if it (or anything implying it) is submitted in any form to any system or device designed to receive, convey or respond to communications (with or without human intervention).

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/35/introduction

 

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2005/13/notes

 

http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/business_leaflets/consumer_credit/oft664.pdf

And you can take your pick from the OFT DCG's, I think there is a breach on every page!:mad2:

Who ever heard of someone getting a job at the Jobcentre? The unemployed are sent there as penance for their sins, not to help them find work!

 

 

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Guest Cartaphilus
This is absolutely disgusting, will be keeping an eye on this.

 

Well, yes it is but as I am sure you will find out ... it's not really all that uncommon to read about this kind of harassment from a DCA and what human beings are exposed to. It's just the tip of the iceberg in most instances.

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  • 2 weeks later...

It never rains but it pours.... :-x

 

My poor mum-in-law is now getting several calls a day from another DCA - these are automated messages asking if she is Mrs So-and-So - if she is could she press 1, if not could she press 2... She actually isn't this person so we can only assume they've got their details wrong (what a surprise :roll:). She has got herself in a right state - understandably, as this is nothing more than harassment.

 

I've had some cr*p from DCAs in my time but this one takes the biscuit. What part of the OFT guidance concerning DCAs not chasing people when they are not sure they are the debtor does this DCA decide they are exempt from...?

 

Anyway I hope this DCA is wearing brown trousers when I get hold of them..... :!:

WOOLWICH -S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) sent 03/03/07 :cool:

LBA sent for non-compliance with Data Protection Act 28/04/07 :mad:

 

ABBEY - S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) sent 03/03/07 8)

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all i can say is you have to put it in writing to them by recorded delivery

 

address it to there compliance/complaints

a condition of there consumer credit licence is they must respond

 

 

i did end up taking a certain dca to court who would not accept a statute barred debt for harrasment and defamation of my credit file

 

ime afraid you are on the computer and will continue to get this crap

 

warn them of legal action and do it

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There's always the option of sending the DCAs the "Only In Writing" template. That way, if they continue to harass, then you have even more ammunition.

 

Sorry to read about this nasty situation - best of luck in your attempts to bring them to justice!

Please note, I am not professionally qualified in legal matters. Should you have any doubts, you should contact a legal expert.

However, I can and will help with matters regarding payroll as I am fully qualified.

 

If I've helped in any way, you're welcome to click on my "star" and thanks, but I gain the most satisfaction simply by helping/reassuring :O)

 

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If the harassment continues, don’t be afraid to get the police involved. Call your local station and INSIST that someone deals with your complaint. Harassment is a criminal offence. Now that you have told the DCAs to stop calling, in writing, there is a clear offence.

 

You may have to be firm with Mr Plod, but they are obliged to investigate. One call from the police to the DCA should suffice.

 

But keep up the other avenues of complaint. I'd strongly suggest you get a solicitor involved.

“The industry is rotten to the core, whether it is in-house recovery and collection, or where agents are used, or where the debt has been sold.” Andrew Mackinley MP, House of Commons, 22 April 2009

 

If a Cagger helps you, click their star. Better still, make a donation however small, so that CAG can continue to help others.

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Just thought I might try to cheer you up, and show you what I sent in the post today to one DCA, sent it 2nd class aswell just to reiterate how important I think their problem really is!

002.jpg

Who ever heard of someone getting a job at the Jobcentre? The unemployed are sent there as penance for their sins, not to help them find work!

 

 

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Doesn't that constitute acknowledging the debt?!

“The industry is rotten to the core, whether it is in-house recovery and collection, or where agents are used, or where the debt has been sold.” Andrew Mackinley MP, House of Commons, 22 April 2009

 

If a Cagger helps you, click their star. Better still, make a donation however small, so that CAG can continue to help others.

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I did think that, but they first have to unglue and remove the sellotape from it first, PLUS it is'nt my debt.....never heard of it..Just my little bit of fun for the week:lol:

Who ever heard of someone getting a job at the Jobcentre? The unemployed are sent there as penance for their sins, not to help them find work!

 

 

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ROFL Bazooka Boo :lol:

 

Oh that is brilliant - made my day!

 

Thanks for all your advice guys - very helpful. You can sure see how cases like Beryl Brazier's happen. My poor mum-in-law is getting extremely depressed about this - she has got her family around her for support but when you are ill and elderly this sort of bullying is bound to impact on you. And DCAs know this - they are nothing better than gutter-****.

 

MC

WOOLWICH -S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) sent 03/03/07 :cool:

LBA sent for non-compliance with Data Protection Act 28/04/07 :mad:

 

ABBEY - S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) sent 03/03/07 8)

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It never rains but it pours.... :-x

 

My poor mum-in-law is now getting several calls a day from another DCA - these are automated messages asking if she is Mrs So-and-So - if she is could she press 1, if not could she press 2... She actually isn't this person so we can only assume they've got their details wrong (what a surprise :roll:). She has got herself in a right state - understandably, as this is nothing more than harassment.

 

I've had some cr*p from DCAs in my time but this one takes the biscuit. What part of the OFT guidance concerning DCAs not chasing people when they are not sure they are the debtor does this DCA decide they are exempt from...?

 

Anyway I hope this DCA is wearing brown trousers when I get hold of them..... :!:

 

is this Equidebt ?

 

I'm getting automated calls from them, about a statute barred debt on a fairly regular basis now

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My poor mum-in-law is getting extremely depressed about this - she has got her family around her for support but when you are ill and elderly this sort of bullying is bound to impact on you.

 

Anyone would think that money makes the world go round..:???:

Yet again, a classic case of DCA's bullying the elderly and vulnerable people of our society, NOTE: "Our society" They all live in their own little world.

This should DEFINITELY be brought to the attention of your local MP, and highlight the Beryl Brazier case for added impact, ask them exactly what they are doing about this extremely corrupt, rotten to the core industry, and I would make a complaint to the Police also, about the ongoing criminal offence of harassment, at least it is logged officially.

 

BBC Watchdog has recently fired up again!

Who ever heard of someone getting a job at the Jobcentre? The unemployed are sent there as penance for their sins, not to help them find work!

 

 

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Apex Credit Solutions & Lloyds TSB

 

Hi I'm looking for some advice, its a bit of a long story but it all started with bank charge etc. etc. I argued with the bank over years worth of charges even raised a small claims case, which got stayed and I guess is now moot, during this time I lost my job and my overdraft
charges mounted against my £500 overdraft the debt now totals £800 odd.

 

I argued with the Ombudsman that Lloyd s had failed in their duty as they never tried to assess me or offered any kind of a payment plan, unlike Barclay's which it pains me to say behaved exemplary, Lloyds never did anything but send threatening letters. Anyway the Ombudsman
ruled the debt stands and that was months ago, January time since then nothing. Two weeks ago I got a letter from Apex saying their acting on behalf of Lloyds (Yeah right) and would I like to sort out payment so I called them and offered the lady £30 quid a month, which is about all I can spare as a small family and me the sole earner. They then demanded financial data so they could assess what I could afford and I said I had told them what I could afford and that they as a third party had no right to my data and I would have to take advice, I then said will you take my £30 and she said not without figures and there it was left.

I should have written but I have been a busy at work and today I have a letter saying:

 

"Apex Credit Management are dissapointed that despite our efforts to contact you regarding your debt with Lloyds TSB Bank plc. you have failed to reach any agreement with us.

 

We now believe that you are simply avoiding paying your debt and must therefore act in the best interests of our client.

 

We utilise external data sources to profile our accounts carefully and believe that you have the ability to make payments on this debt. Consequently your account will be passed to our internal litigation team in order to consider the best course of action for recovery of the debt outstanding. This may include legal action to obtain a County Court
Judgment which may then seek to enforce by way of a charging order or attachment to earnings application.

 

Please contact us yadah yadah yadah......."

 

No time frame given.

 

I just don't know what to do, I will happily pay them £30 a month if it is easiest but it would leave a bad taste, or can I tie them up in paperwork like CCA requests, challenge the validity of the debt. I never signed anything regarding the overdrafts and the manager who when I lost my job arranged the first £250 and subsequent increase to £500 overdraft then just vanished quite abruptly and the bank say they didn't know I lost my job.

 

Please, please help any advice would be appreciated.

 

Sorry I am new to using these forums I don't know where to put this query and desperately would like some advice on what I should do now.

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Pay them what you can afford.

I would sart paying them (the bank not apex) £5 a month as if they did take you to court the judge would look at it in a posiitive way on your behalf and there's nothing they can do.

Send them a cheque or deposit £5 a month into your account as it will still be open and keep a record of all payments and letters.

Unfortunately overdrafts are not covered by the CCA.

 

BTW don't worry,seriously there's nothing they can do, they have no legal powers whatsoever and they themselves can not take you to court and i doubt whether a bank will take you to court for £500 so long as you are paying something.

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