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    • Doc 04-19-2024 11-01-51-merged-compressed.pdf good morning.    9 pages attached.    thank you  UCM
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David Lloyd Gym Membership Cancellation Issue


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Hi

 

After nearlt two years of membership I am moving area thus required to cancel my membership.

 

However, I went in to give my 1 months notice a few days before my next monthly payment thus the (in theory) last day of membership would be September 30th.

 

When at the Gym I was told that if I was in my first year of membership that would be correct.

 

However, since I'm beyond that I must give 3 months notice!! whether its 3 years or 15 years of previous membership.

 

I really object to this and consider it extortionate and unfair.

 

Does anyone have any advice to challenge and only pay my 1 months notice as I would have expected please.

 

Many thanks

srfrench :eek:

 

Fight incompetance, stupidity, greed and unfairness......There's no excuse and no place for it in society, unless they really are! :wink:

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi SRF,

 

Have you checked the contract to see what it says about cancellation. What they have told you makes absolutely NO sense to me.

 

If you don't have a copy of the contract, ask the gym for it. Or you could use a SAR to get sight of it.

 

Personally, I'd cancel by letter to their HO by Rec'd Del'y, giving the 1 month's notice as you intended. I doubt they have a contract that allows them to require the 3 months notice.

 

Then cancel the SO or DD at your bank (in writing or by internet banking).

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My cancellation notification was done in the Gym and I have a receipt.

 

Yes it's in their T&C's however I was unaware of it being 3 months notice required after the first complete year of membership.

 

Both the notice period and the requirement I consider to be unfair. There is no reason given for the extended notice period as being for admin costs etc so in my opinion there is a fairness issue here insofar as it wasn't explained to me at the time of becoming a member, only the requirement of giving 1 months notice during the first year.

 

I consider it unfair regardless of whether it mentions it in their T&C's or not.

 

Any advice?

srfrench :eek:

 

Fight incompetance, stupidity, greed and unfairness......There's no excuse and no place for it in society, unless they really are! :wink:

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I think the 3 month rule sounds non-sensical and could certainly be challenged on the basis of fairness.

 

Given the attention these gyms have had from Trading Standards, and the fact that most of their "contracts" are a lash-up, I'd send a letter to the HO confirming the cancellation that you gave at the gym on xxdate. Send them a copy of the cancellation receipt.

 

Confirm that you consider their requirement for 3 month's notice after the initial contract period to be wholly unfair and, therefore, challengeable. Add that, if they pursue for any additional m/ship fees, you'll report the matter to TS.

 

Tell them your DD has been cancelled (and make sure you cancel with the bank).

 

They'll probably huff and puff for a while and then slither back under their stone. Maybe also read up on some of the other DL Gym threads for guidance.

 

:-)

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I had a dispute with DL on this, the OFT as part of their invistigation into gyms actually said DL terms were unfair, I will have a look now for some more on this.

 

I stopped the direct debit, they commenced proceedings against me and I ended up paying them one months notice - which was fair.

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Thanks Guido.

 

Well they replied saying they may pass this onto their debt collection arm (ARC UK) and they wanted me to pay the next 2 installments immediatley!!!!!

srfrench :eek:

 

Fight incompetance, stupidity, greed and unfairness......There's no excuse and no place for it in society, unless they really are! :wink:

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They passed me to ARC too and then commenced legal proceedings when I refused to pay them anything.

 

I need to look for the details for you which I will do now.

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Thanks again Guido.

 

Read your posted links and whilst a lot of it is relevant, some I'm afraid to say wouldn't suit my case......however......

 

After absorbing that which was useful I have drafted the following......comments appreciated bud.....

 

Dear Mr xxxxxxxxxxx

Thank you for your reply dated 15th September 2010 and its contents are noted.

I compliment David Lloyd Leisure in obtaining the crystal mark from the Plain English Campaign.

When I took out the membership nearly 2 years ago now, it was never pointed out to me the requirement for three months notice, just the one. I would also like to point out that the Office of Fair Trading (OFT) states that “rolling terms” are unfair and indeed have told Gym companies already that you need to reduce your notice period! Most UK Gyms, including the one I have today signed up to in XXXXXX, have a requirement for just one months’ notice. Perhaps you would be good enough to explain why there is such a requirement if you wish to pursue this.

I have taken legal advice over this issue and I have been advised that under the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977 (UCTA) and the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 (UTCCR) they require the supplier of the goods and/or services to point out any onerous terms in their contracts such as a cancellation fee and that it is not enough that the clause is hidden away in the lengthy contract because, as an onerous term, it should be highlighted to me as a consumer.

Additionally I consider the term to be unfair per se’ and as such comes within the remit of the National Court who’s duty is to conduct their own investigation and assessment into the terms giving rise to an unfair situation prior to any legal action from a consumer. Indeed even the OFT can launch such an investigation and has the power to impose their findings. Please bear in mind that if found and held to be unfair then under regulation 8 (1) “An unfair term in a contract concluded with a consumer by a seller or supplier shall not be binding on the consumer.” In effect this not only applies to the individual consumer but also invalidates the term immediately across ALL your contracts! I would like to draw your attention to Regulation 5 and 6 of the UTCCR’s and would welcome any comments and even an explanation as to why you consider the term to be fair.

On a final note, I will not be re-instating my Direct Debits nor will I pay you in advance, or in a requested lump sum, the two months membership fees. Not only are you asking for it ahead of the time it would have normally come out of my account, but there is no requirement for me to do so in your terms and conditions. I also consider the “account” to be in dispute and consequently if you place this in the hands of a debt collector (first or third party) you will be reported and may have to pay me damages for your actions.

I look forward at your earliest convenience to receiving a reply detailing the requirements above otherwise I hope to end my membership on a amicable note.

srfrench :eek:

 

Fight incompetance, stupidity, greed and unfairness......There's no excuse and no place for it in society, unless they really are! :wink:

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  • 3 weeks later...

Well sent the letter above by Special Delivery.......I await their response.

srfrench :eek:

 

Fight incompetance, stupidity, greed and unfairness......There's no excuse and no place for it in society, unless they really are! :wink:

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  • 2 months later...

Received a call today from "allegedly" Mr Munn stating that he has been charged with recovering DL's debt.

 

I advised him that I want all communications in writing and the fact that I hadnt had any replies to my two peices of communication (letters) to DL asking them to prove why their 3 month notice period is fair and when it was communicated to me that I required 3 months notice instead of the one.

 

I also advised that I have prepared a dossier already including supporting info from TS and the OFT in case they were ill-advised to take me to a Court. Indeed I encouraged them to take me as I'm a peer of the realm and extremely well-funded and represented.

 

If Mr Munn phoned me again or made any attempt at communication other than by letter and legal representation I would consider it as harrassment and will instigate proceedings against them accordingly......then hung up on him.

 

I now await their response.

srfrench :eek:

 

Fight incompetance, stupidity, greed and unfairness......There's no excuse and no place for it in society, unless they really are! :wink:

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Did Mr M ask for copies of the unanswered letters, or enquire as to the content thereof.

 

If you hear any more from Munn by phone or by letter, you should give him a warning letter to confirm the matter is in dispute with DL and he is barred from pursuing the debt by virtue of the OFT Guidelines on Debt Collection. Then it's in writing as opposed at a (probably) unlogged phone conversation.

 

8)

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Hi Slick

 

No he didnt ask for any copies of any correspondence....though that may change. I think personally he was rather taken aback with my stance and attitude, shall see.

 

Thanks for the rest of the advice, which I shall certainly be following 8)

 

If I receive anything no matter how trivial, I'll post it up here.

 

Thanks again.

srfrench :eek:

 

Fight incompetance, stupidity, greed and unfairness......There's no excuse and no place for it in society, unless they really are! :wink:

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  • 1 month later...

Just can't believe these muppets.

 

Threat after time-limited threat and still no issue in Court, post still being sent to an old address despite telling them where to send ALL correspondence and now a return to the automated telephone calls by robot despite warnings from ARC.

srfrench :eek:

 

Fight incompetance, stupidity, greed and unfairness......There's no excuse and no place for it in society, unless they really are! :wink:

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Hi SRF,

 

Either ignore their attempts to contact, or make a formal complaint to the FOS and to Consumer Direct about the ongoing harassment.

 

Have you kept an eye on your credit records, to make sure no-one has posted any adverse data about supposed unpaid gym fees.

 

8-)

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Hi Slick.......yes am currently putting together a complaint to the FOS (solicitor is drafting) but require a second instance for it to be viably damaging apparently.

 

Havent checked my credit records but nothing should be on there regardless as there wasnt any credit involved. However these are incompetant parties we're dealing with here so will check this week or next as latest.

 

Will keep all posted as to what happens next 8)

srfrench :eek:

 

Fight incompetance, stupidity, greed and unfairness......There's no excuse and no place for it in society, unless they really are! :wink:

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  • 3 weeks later...

Well since I threatened ARC no further calls or post from them. No issues with my 3 Credits files either.

 

Will keep everyone up to date every 2 weeks just in case.

 

My solicitor has indicated that ARC staff work on commisions so its in their interest to bully and cajole you into paying. If you stand up to them they rarely (if at all) will take it further. They prefer easy pickings otherwise its not worth their while to pursue through a court......thats the responsibility of their client, in my case, David Lloyd.

 

Useless, unscrupulous, unprincipled, incompetant pillocks!!

srfrench :eek:

 

Fight incompetance, stupidity, greed and unfairness......There's no excuse and no place for it in society, unless they really are! :wink:

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  • 1 month later...

Well following all that I then received a letter from ScotCall Debt Collecting Services.

 

I'll post the contents of the letter up here shortly and my reply AND the outcome...........hilarious.

srfrench :eek:

 

Fight incompetance, stupidity, greed and unfairness......There's no excuse and no place for it in society, unless they really are! :wink:

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On the 10th March 2011 I received a letter from ScotCall Debt Collecting Services following my final threat to ARC. It read:

 

Dear Sir / Madam (they didn't even have the intelligence to mention me by name even though its in the address field!)

 

Your above outstanding debt has now been placed with "ScotCall".

 

Failure to pay or contact us immediately will result in your account being passed to our Field Representatives to arrange a Doorstep Call to make arrangements to repay this debt.

 

To avoid this we require the payment of the full outstanding balance or should your financial circumstances prevent this we require you to contact us with a realistic offer of payment.

 

They then go on to detail how to make payments and the various methods. So as you can gather by now I've decided that rather than get upset or mad with them I have on advice decided to turn the tables and now will threaten them. Considering ARC and Trevor Munn appear to have given up, I then typed the letter you will see in my next post to ScotCall, ARC and David Lloyd's.

srfrench :eek:

 

Fight incompetance, stupidity, greed and unfairness......There's no excuse and no place for it in society, unless they really are! :wink:

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So in reply to the above letter from ScotCall Debt Collecting Services I wrote:

 

ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE

 

16th March 2011

 

Dear Sir or Madam

 

ScotCall Ref: xxxxxx

Client Ref: xxxxxx

 

I acknowledge receipt of your letter dated 10th March 2011.

 

My dismay in your continuation to send post to my old address is overwhelming. Despite verbal and written correspondence advising you where to send it, this has been ignored.

 

This account has been in dispute with David Lloyd Leisure since 15th September 2010.

 

My previous letters to David Lloyd from 15th Septemeber 2010 have NOT been answered satisfactorily. Therefore I will not deal with your company or representatives on the phone or the doorstep and any doorstep calls will be deemed as an act of aggression and / or intimidation and will be dealt with accordingly.

 

If you choose to ignore this letter and attempt enforcement, I will take legal action and file reports with the appropiate authorities, including, but not limited to, Trading Standards, the Office of Fair Trading and the Information Commisioners Office. I hope this course of action will not prove necesasary.

 

I have asked on numerous occasions that this matter be settled in Court.

 

I have taken legal advice and any continued pursuit is in violation of the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 in line with the Office of Fair Trading Collection Guidelines.

 

I will no longer enter into protracted correspondence and suggest your client issue Court proceedings without delay. Any legal action will be defended vigourously and hereon in, I will only respond to official court letters / documentation. If Court proceedings are issued, this letter will be produced in support of my claim and / or defence together with all previous correspondence relating to this matter.

 

Please note my correct address, as set out clearly above.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

 

cc: ARC

David Lloyd Leisure

"My Solicitors"

 

 

 

I then sent this off to ScotCall and a copy to ARC and a further copy to David Lloyd Leisure and my solicitor for their records. The latter ones all had covering letters asking them to note the above letter and its contents and file accordingly.

 

Lets see what happens now............reply from ScotCall below:

srfrench :eek:

 

Fight incompetance, stupidity, greed and unfairness......There's no excuse and no place for it in society, unless they really are! :wink:

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After posting all these letters recorded delivery..... I received "SHOCK and HORROR" a reply from ScotCall.

 

 

21st March 2011

 

Dear Sir / Madam

 

ScotCall Ref: xxxxxx

Account Name: Me, my name, you know the name you cant be arsed to put in the "Dear" field!!!!

Address: Hurrah and a little mexican wave....they got it right, at last!

 

 

Please find enclosed Paperwork relating to an account we are no longer dealing with.

 

It was returned to our Client on 21/03/2011.

 

Please contact them at the address supplied quoting their reference number xxxxxx

 

Our Client: ARC Europe

Address: Kent House

Chuchfield Road

Walton-On-Thames

Surrey KT12 2TU

 

Yours sincerely.

 

 

My letter to ScotCall was included in the above letter in the form as "Paperwork". So no action through this agency then. RESULT!

 

AT LAST! Success. So ARC are now on notice to either pass this back to their client David Lloyd AND cease recovery attempts or receive a claim from me through the Courts for intimidation and aggression. As the Meerkats say: SIMPLES!

srfrench :eek:

 

Fight incompetance, stupidity, greed and unfairness......There's no excuse and no place for it in society, unless they really are! :wink:

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