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    • Attention BANKFODDER   Thank you for this. I am sorry you don't have time read everything. I find your comment about my letters being ineffectual is rude and condescending and discourages us (consumers) sharing our experiences, ideas views on this forum.  Which i thought was the point of this forum.     Concerning my letters, emails etc.  At the start of claim i like to fish, and also point out the relevant law.  The fishing helps and often i find process errors - which strengthens my legal claim.  Pointing out the legal basis and expected resolution of my claim early (and getting ignored), will help me increase the quantum. ie a failure to act reasonably. Which judges take very seriously. This is because both parties are expected to mitigate the others losses by working "reasonably" toward settling the dispute.    For example: Packlink wrote this - "Take into account that this type investigation requires the coordination of the different participants involved (driver, depot, warehouse, carrier's local offices), so it might be necessary to wait for a response from the different parties involved before being able to provide you with an answer" and said this can take up to 30 days. Hermes/Packlink responded in less than a day with standard copy and paste email.  Investigating the loss of a parcel is part of the service provided by Hermes/Packlink, and failure to do this with reasonable care skill is another breach of contract and strengthens my claim.    ***********   Lastly, i am interested to hear from others re the use of unfair contractual terms to discourage and put off valid contractual claims. Worse the fact they deliberately train their staff to believe this is law, and they happily mislead customers.  I have experienced this with Apple, Amazon, Hermes etc, etc. and it is getting worse, because helps to swell the companies profits. For consumers, it simply adds insult to injury.     I also believe misrepresenting the law to deprive others may be a criminal offence. If that is case, and others are getting as fed up as me as having take delinquent companies to law, to recover compensation, there may be an opportunity to get regulators involved.  For example ASA might be interested - because they are effectively trying to make you pay to cover yourself against the their breach of contracts.    Now if you want to help, please do so, otherwise let others contribute   Thank you       
    • What does the order that you posted in #46 say?   (I suspect that FTMDave may be suggesting that it would be preferable to have it all complete today so you don't have to run around like a headless chicken tomorrow.  I assume he has a day job that he has to do tomorrow).     Look simeon - I'm sorry, but how the hell would we know where they need to go?    I thought you had already sorted out the piling receipt and which attachment it was?    Where has the rubble truck come from and why haven't you mentioned it before?    Are the amounts for the rubble truck and the roofer already included in the £16577 you are claiming?  If they are, then haven't you already included them in your breakdown of the total and your attachments?  If they aren't already included and are still to be added in, then that means that you are claiming more than £16577.   I can't explain it any more simply than I have done already.  If you just cannot understand or assimilate what FTMDave and I are suggesting, then we really can't help you any further...     =================================================================================================   I would honestly suggest that you spend an hour re-reading and understanding some of the more important posts on this thread.   I think they are #105, #113, #120 and all the posts after #120.   THEN, you need to do what FTMDave suggests in #131 (having read and understood the posts noted above and reading #131 in the light of that understanding).   OK?  I'll look in after 5pm...
    • Afternoon    my three final bill is £35.78 i received a notification that the account on my credit report is settled. Surely it needs to be paid first before it’s settled
    • I did. But I have a problem with my laptop I think because it keeps using my info somewhere in the background even though I only ever use her name etc. I think it remembers me from an old case.    also, whenever I use the government gateway I get problems as it keeps using old logins from other people who I’ve helped in the past with tax returns. I’ve tried clearing cookies and  browsing history but it keeps happening. Eg I put in a gateway code and password but it shows as error because the password doesn’t match the code it’s decided to use. It’s driving me nuts. 
    • Thanks dx 100uk,   Just so I’m clear,   1. I should first send email to bailiff saying x2 previous PCNs for same street went to tribunal & I won , this one I never received any correspondence so could not defend it else I would have & will now be defending it?   2. email the council tell them similar thing , send them tribunal decision of other two?   I need to get confirmation alleged contravention fir this PCN . How should I do that in terms of getting the council to release those details to me?   thanks
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Oedious and unfair practice - Automatic Renewals of Subscriptions


JOSH02K
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Is there any regulation that prevents companies from imposing onerous conditions on you when you want to cancel automatic renewal that you did not ask for, - hence the automatic.

 

as an example here's one from ADVFN.COM. They are happy to snap up your payment online, however when it comes to cancelling its a different matter. I am surprised they didn't require an in person interview for cancellation... !

 

"Send notice of termination or downgrade including your username, full registered home and email addresses, service level to be downgraded to, contact telephone number and explanation of your intentions to: ADVFN PLC, Subs Dept, 26 Throgmorton Street, London, EC2N 2AN. ADVFN CANNOT ACCEPT NOTICE FOR CANCELATION OR DOWNGRADE VIA EMAIL, TELEPHONE OR FAX"

 

We need legislative protection against automatic renewal, and where a renewal has been automatic, the consumer should have the right to cancel at any time except when they have explicitly given authorisation for renewal AFTER expiry of a previous subscription ie, they cannot use weasle terms such as by signing this for the first year you also authorise automoatic renewal for all subsequent years. Automatic renewals should expire and deemed cancelled if not paid with no further action and full consumer protection. Credit card companies should be able to cancel automatic payments and not come out with rubbish like they can't cancel payments and we have to get the unfair trader to stop taking payments!

We also need a legislated right to cancel by any means, including e-mail and online, and as a minimum, by the same means that the initial subcription was made.

 

Are there any credit card companies that prevent such sharp practices from going ahead, ie, allow you to cancel automatic renewals by refusing them?

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Not for card payments, no. It is built into the architecture of the beast. Not only that, is is accepted without question if a merchant asserts the payment is ongoing (used to be called a 'continuous mandate') leaving open their ability to take further payments whether the cardholder has knowledge of this or not. This is one of the reasons I prefer to use cheques now, as this provides no mechanism to make further debits. The automatic cancellation you speak of is in place, and the expiry is set at 367 days from the previous debit of a transaction flagged as repeating or continuous.

 

These are rules laid down by Visa and Mastercard (and a lesser extent with AmEx and Diners), so the issue is one with the developers of the system, not the individual financial institutions who make cards available.

 

The biggest transgressors are Insurance companies, and to a lesser extent service providers on the web who when taking payment flag it as ongoing, whether it is a single purchase or not - and the cardholder has no indication on his statement whether this ongoing authority has been given. The best solution was from a firm called Orbiscom, who develoiped 'virtual' credit card numbers. This worked for online purchases, generating a fresh number online (with an optional credit limit, if required, set by the cardholder). Once the debit had been taken, the number could not be used again - except for a refund. This kept the conumer in control, but was disliked intensely by merchants for obvious reasons.

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  • 1 month later...
Is there any regulation that prevents companies from imposing onerous conditions on you when you want to cancel automatic renewal that you did not ask for, - hence the automatic.

 

as an example here's one from ADVFN.COM. They are happy to snap up your payment online, however when it comes to cancelling its a different matter. I am surprised they didn't require an in person interview for cancellation... !

 

"Send notice of termination or downgrade including your username, full registered home and email addresses, service level to be downgraded to, contact telephone number and explanation of your intentions to: ADVFN PLC, Subs Dept, 26 Throgmorton Street, London, EC2N 2AN. ADVFN CANNOT ACCEPT NOTICE FOR CANCELATION OR DOWNGRADE VIA EMAIL, TELEPHONE OR FAX"

 

We need legislative protection against automatic renewal, and where a renewal has been automatic, the consumer should have the right to cancel at any time except when they have explicitly given authorisation for renewal AFTER expiry of a previous subscription ie, they cannot use weasle terms such as by signing this for the first year you also authorise automoatic renewal for all subsequent years. Automatic renewals should expire and deemed cancelled if not paid with no further action and full consumer protection. Credit card companies should be able to cancel automatic payments and not come out with rubbish like they can't cancel payments and we have to get the unfair trader to stop taking payments!

We also need a legislated right to cancel by any means, including e-mail and online, and as a minimum, by the same means that the initial subcription was made.

 

Are there any credit card companies that prevent such sharp practices from going ahead, ie, allow you to cancel automatic renewals by refusing them?

 

 

Couldn't agree with you more.

Just tried to cancel this subscription online and read the same bullsh*t conditions.

You can stop all sorts of payments online to amazon etc etc, but this is just taking the p*ss

AND it has to be done a month in advance so my next payment opn November 8 will be taken

Also, I live abroad so have to go through the rigmarole of writing.

 

I sent an email to my bank Cahoot to stop payments on the card but they probably can't.

Ridiculous.

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In most cases, the ability to renew is actually a pre-existing requirement that you'll have already have deemed to have agreed to to sign up for the service in the first place. Your ultimate sanction is to REFUSE to enter into this arrangement, by not signing up to it. Not by complaining after-the-event.

 

if more people did this, the drop in custom would require them to re-evaluate their scheme and modify accordingly.

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  • 2 months later...

I've recently encountered an issue like this but differs in that I signed up to an actor's casting site (starnow) and once my subscription had run out I was prompted to renew my subscription, I chose not to. A month later my subscription had been automatically renewed with no indication in the first place that there was even an auto renewal option. I wasn't even sent an email to tell me that this was happening/had happened. Where do I stand legally with this? Should I legally be reimbursed or can they get away with this?

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It is becoming more common. There will have been a paragraph stating renewals will be taken automatically and it is up to the cardholder to ensure this mandate is cancelled. Many firms rely on this lethargy and the card firms let them. If EVER using your card, you need to take special car to ensure this is NOT overlooked.

 

If they point this out when you query it, then their actions are legal. If they did not state this within their terms of trading, then they cannot.

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Wasn't the system to cancel amended recently. I was under the impression that if you signed online then all that is needed to cancel the agreement is an email. In essence I suppose that if they can't accept the email that means that they could not accept the original agreement.

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Only if the terms contained the info that an email cancellation was acceptable. Even if it was, I'd be pretty uneasy that they'd have the intelligence to follow my instructions - too much can go wrong!

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Is there any regulation that prevents companies from imposing onerous conditions on you when you want to cancel automatic renewal that you did not ask for, - ...

 

(h) of Schedule2 of the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 seems to more or less apply:

 

automatically extending a contract of fixed duration where the consumer does not indicate otherwise, when the deadline fixed for the consumer to express his desire not to extend the contract is unreasonably early;

 

8)

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Just try that with most insurance companies - all who will charge a renewal at the prevailing rate despite the insurance having a finite term. As they've been doing this under the guise of 'helping consumers' prevent uninsured vehicles on the road. as long as it was stated somewhere they'd do this, the onus remains with the consumer.

 

Why do you think you cannot pay eSure for insurance by anything other than plastic? Since 1998 they only allow card payments 'for security reasons'.

 

Yes, right.

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I can understand why the law would not be more specific, because the development of electronic payment methods is still in progress.

 

By the time a European Directive came to pass it could all have changed and may yet do so. At the end of the day the custom of the customer counts for that much more than the law, which is to suggest that it is simply not in the interest of a credit card company to prevent sharp practice before it is, so to speak, because the practice is business. They want the money to flow, not stop.

 

8-)

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  • 8 months later...

Apologies for resurrecting an old thread, but I'm interest in the problem with cancellation raised by the OP.

 

I have a premium ADVFN subscription which I also sought to cancel today by giving the required 30 days notice by email. ADVFN wrote back saying that their t&cs require me to cancel by posted letter and they don't accept cancellations by email.

 

Their new subscriber's email says that "You may terminate your subscription by giving ADVFN not less than 30 days written notice". The requirement to do this by letter is only spelt out in their t&cs.

 

Given that they accept new subscriptions online and upgrades to new subscriptions on line, it seems unreasonable not to accept downgrades or cancellations online. There are obvious commercial reasons for them to behave in this way.

 

My question is whether the requirement for a letter could be regarded as an unfair term? I would really like to challenge them over this.

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  • 2 months later...

I have had no extent of trouble with trying to cancel with ADVFN.

 

I initially upgraded to a Silver subscription in early August only for the service to cease to work for me (it wouldn't work in Internet Explorer 9, Firefox 6 or Google Chrome). I tried for a few weeks to get this working again (including emails to their support desk) but to no avail.

 

I then tried to cancel with them, which is still an ongoing exercise in seemingless futility. I initially sent the required letter to cancel in late August. There was no reply to this and I was once again charged the monthly subscription. I followed up in mid-September by email to find out what was going on and was told that my letter had not been received and that my emails (including scans of said letter posted) would be ignored in regards to cancellaton.

 

I dutifully sent a second letter in mid-September (with a copy of the first letter) to again confirm cancellation and complaint that the service had not worked since mid-August. Once again I heard nothing back but again was subsequently billed the next two months.

 

At this point, I emailed once again to find out what was going on. Again, I was told that my letter had not been received. I dutifully sent them a third letter (including copies of the first two letters) and a further email with copies of these letters too. Funnily enough, this third letter has not been received either. Having worked for Royal Mail, I know the chances of three letters to the same address going missing is next to non-existent.

 

Currently, I have been in contact with my credit card provider to reverse these charges. As a precautionery measure, I have also had to cancel my existing credit card in order to ensure that these unlawful payments cease. Despite the numerous letters and emails to ADVFN, I have heard nothing about my complaints.

 

Frankly, ADVFN has been an odious company to deal with and has disgusting levels of customer service. I can only advise to stay well clear of them and their outdated and clearly duplicitous practices.

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That's pretty much what I expected they would do with me.In the event I let the matter slip and, as expected, they charged my card again as they don't consider email to be written notice.I kept the service going in order to get out of the market in a controlled way. Now that I've done that, I'm going to have another go at cancelling the service and pursuing them.

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  • 3 months later...

Hi, I have fallen into the automatic-renewal-of-insurance trap. Quote Mart - part of the BGL Group of insurance companies (which includes Compare the Market, Budget Insurance and Dial Direct) has taken £175 from my account, citing a roll-on contract. As regards a full refund, I am getting no satisfaction from Qoute Mart or my bank - Lloyds TSB.

 

In an entry above (29 Aug '10) buzby says that right to automatically renew lapses 367 days from the previous debit. Lloyds bank have no knowledge of this. I have a Lloyds / Visa debit card. The Visa Europe website says that the terms and conditions of debit cards are set by your bank and not them.

 

Can busby (or anybody else) refer me to his source of the "367 day rule"? Regards.

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