where to post?

[dukewood]

Hello

 

I am new to the forum and not sure where to post - did read through - but still not 100% sure.

 

My question relates to taking small claims action after insurance ombudsman has not found in my favour. I think I know what the process is but would be intersted in any view on likely success / court view is ombusman has already said no.

 

Many thanks and happy to re post once I know where

 

The Duke

[saintly_1]

Hi and Welcome to CAG

 

 

You could try posting here http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/forumdisplay.php?62-Insurance-Assurance-Companies

 

The insurance/assurance forum

 

 

Hope that helps

 

saintly

[dukewood]

Hello

 

Recently had a decision go against me from the Insurance Ombudsman. Feel really strongly that they haven't understood and that on the balance of probability on the facts I think the company are in the wrong. Does anyway have any experience and / or thoughts re: small claims actions following an ombudsman decision ie:

 

does the judge look at the facts objectvely or merely side with the company and support the ombudsman's decision.

 

Any comments welcome.

 

Many thanks

 

The Duke

[unclebulgaria67]

A court will consider the case that you put to them and any counter arguments from the other side, purely based on law, looking any court cases that could relate.

 

I have read comment that many people have been successful in the courts, following a previous rejection from the FOS.

 

Many people are now turning to the courts, rather then using the FOS, due to the lengthy delays experienced for complaints to be looked into. They are taking over 2 years in many cases. There is also some fear that following changes within the FOS, they are no longer siding with the consumer, as much as they used to.

[MARTIN3030]

other thread merged here.

Can you give some background to the issues ?

 

What does it relate to ?

How long ago ?

What communications were made between you and the other side to try to resolve pre the Omb taking it up ?

 

What did you supply in evidence to the Omb ?

What did the other side provide ?

 

How much is involved ?

[dukewood]

Thank you.

 

Think I will have a try - challenge in my case is that it turns on balance of probability - ie: was it likely / not likely that a shower seal failed due to workman taking down / replacing a section of ceiling directly below.

 

Builder - says yes - lilkely it was caused by work below -

Ins Co say no - wear and tear - but how likely is that a seal would fail at exactly the same time as work below?

 

Any thoughts on presenting the case welcome. Would I need to go to the expense of an independanct surveryor report for the court?

 

Thanks

[unclebulgaria67]

Suggest that you get proper legal advice, before you take the Insurers to court, as you don't want to incur further costs, unless you have a good chance of winning.

 

Purely based on the info in your post, I cannot see how you will win this. It is 50/50, could be argued both ways. If you are the claimant, you have to prove your case, which I think you know will be difficult. Certainly getting expert witness testimonies will help you.

 

The shower seal if is was correctly installed and in good condition, should have coped with some work to the ceiling below. The builder who did the work on the ceiling would have had to be violent in his actions to rip out the old part of the ceiling, to cause any damage to the shower seal above.

 

If anything, you should be taking action against the builder who caused the damage, if you can prove it.

[dukewood]

thanks - replies below.

Can you give some background to the issues ?

had a leak from a sink causing water damage to ceiling below. fixed the leak. ins co agreed to replace strip of ceiling and redecorate ceiling and room.

 

As part of the process insurance company sent round the assessor – at that point the assessor saw damage ceiling (with possible have given way due to water) and water staining around the region incident. Photos were taken and it was clear that at that point there was no more water leaking.

 

The tradesmen were arrived and the proposed work schedule was:

 

 

• Remove 1200 mm strip of ceiling across the room
  
• Replace with new plasterboard
  
• Re plaster the entire ceiling
  
• wait a few days the plaster to dry out
  

 

• redecorate the new ceiling and walls
  

 

 

What does it relate to ? -

 

The job started and the ceiling was removed, replaced and re plastered. the tradesmen didn't fully cleanup is intended to come back a few days later to finish the job after receiving a dried out.

 

After a couple of days most of the ceiling had dried out however a small stripapproximately 100 mm times 1200 mm located approximately 3/4 of a metre away from the original damage remained wet. I notified insurance company on noticing this and we agreed I would weight over the weekend to see if it's dried out.. What actually happened was that the strip was dry out and then reappear shortly after the shower was used. I notified insurance company who sent the home serve area manager to inspect. He stated the issuewas due to wear and tear to shower sill.

I thought this was unlikely as it had been no previous problems with the shower and the seal and had been recently replaced. THe .insurance company remains committed to this position.

 

 

How long ago ? - original incident about3 yrs ago

 

What communications were made between you and the other side to try to resolve pre the Omb taking it up ?

 

Following the area managers visit I called them and wrote several occasions. I also included a letter from the builder stating that the balance of probability was that removing the ceiling below and then replacing it could have sufficiently disturbed the shower tray above to cause a leak. It should also be noted that when the tradesmen started work and when the initial inspection was done there was no water in this area.The insurance company were unmoved - soin an effort are move things on I agreed to replace the shower seal to resolve the problem – allow the rest of the work to be done in the room below. In summary shower seal was replaced on at least three occasions but the problem remained. The water below was eventually stopped by builderputting in thick plastic moulding around shower tray. My understanding from several builders is the trays suit the wall or underneath before the tiling and final scene is applied and it is likely that it was this speed of sealant that was cracked/ disturbed by the work below– hence original attempts to replace the sealant didn't work.

 

I reassessed to insurance company that in my viewit was clear that the new water leak below was caused as a result of the words replace the ceiling. Some 18 months later they offer was to remove the shower and if they found a defect in their work replace everything –and if they didn'tthe cost and management of replacement would be down to me. I think it's clear that this was a completely nonsensical suggestion and also demonstrates a complete lack of understanding the issue/the way shower is installed.

 

 

What did you supply in evidence to the Omb ?

 

I sent the ombudsman all the correspondence with insurance company,a letter from the builder and the leaflet showing shower installed on a wooden floor. timbers and found the balance of probability was that because a new physical barrier did stop the leak it was a failure in the sealant due to wear and tear causing the new water below.

––

I believe this proves completely the opposite - ie: there was clearly no water here on inspection prior to the ceiling work and would the tradesman have replaced ceiling if there had been any evidence of water when they removed the new ceiling. Finally replacing the existing sealant three times didn't work suggesting a different problem i.e. a sealant below the tile line between the train the wall had been disturbed as a consequence of movement caused by replacing the ceiling

 

What did the other side provide ?

 

How much is involved ?

 

It's hard to put a value on this as much of it is down to the time I have had to spend joint project managing this:

 

My estimates would be:

 

3 @ one days labour (£200) - replacing soon three times - £600

1 @ labour ( £200) - fitting physical barrier - £800

sealants * 4 - £48

plastic barrier - £18

cleaning up after plaster work ( not done by builders) - £200

 

waiting 18months - 2 years to resolve and get the decoration eventually done – as the ad says says priceless!

 

thanks again

[sir_gilmour]

Hi

Welcome to The Consumer Action Group.

 

 

I am just letting you know that as you haven't had any replies to your post yet, it might be better if you post your message again in an appropriate sub-forum. You will get lots of help there.

 

Also take some time to read around the forum and get used to the layout. It is a big forum and takes a lot of getting used to.

 

 

Once you start to find your way, you will soon realise that it is fairly easy to get round and to get the help you need.

 

It can be bit confusing at first.