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Hsbc default on credit file - urgent help!!!


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I realy need help as I can see from various threads it may be possible to get a default removed from credit file. I had a default placed on my record in early 2007 by HSBC:( for a credit card which was paid off although this was outstanding for a few months.

 

I did not realise the impact when they sent me the default lettter as otherwise i would have acted. Now this record is giving me a lot of stress as i have had two job offers withradwn within the financial services industry. As i am and accountant and with my career path in this industry it is imperative that i remove this default! It is the only the negative on my credit file. Please help!!!

 

As a first step from the various threads i sent a s77 letter requesting for true copy of the CCA, true copy of the DN and confirmation if the debt was sold on as i know it was chased by Metroploitan.

 

HSBC are basically playing hard ball! I was sent a reconstructed application form with my name, an electronic template of the DN with no proof it was sent but claimed this is an automated processes acceptable by the law court, and 2 pages of statement just showing balances and no computation. They basically said i could go to court.

 

I sent another lengthy letter reminding them of their responsibility and what constitutes compliance with the law and the option of me issuing SAR, now they have responded saying they have satisfied the provision of the laws, the decision is final and it is left for me to decide whether or not to go to court, but that they will defend their decision VIGOUROSLY!

 

I am considering issuing SAR but i don't know to what extent this will go to remove the DN. There were charges on the credit card for late payments etc.

 

I really don't know what to do and any advise will be greatly appreciated.

 

Please help!!!

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what they are saying is sadly true.

 

they don't HAVE to supply you with a copy of the DN, only a record that it was sent.

if or if not the CCA is vaild makes no odds either.

 

the only way you might be able to get the default removed is if the unlawful charges on the card were inc on the balance on the DN

that would poss make it invalid.

 

you should of SAR'ed them first, then started letter tennis ... CCA was a waste of time.

 

get that done now.

 

this is why its important to ask here before acting alone.

you've alerted them to your objective, the element of suprise has gone.

 

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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thnx dx, i will SAR them and post on tuesday. I've seen in one othe threads that the SAR should not be signed, is this really important?

 

I also note that they have note been able to provide a copy of the DN, could that not be a basis for them not been able to proof they DELIVERED a DN to me? This may help in court??

 

I was also sold insurance on the card which they always deboted for, could i include this as part of the claim if it got to the court for mis selling?

 

I think the unlawful charges were included as part of the default amount, but will reconfirm to make certain.

 

Many thanks.

 

Regards

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There needs to be a basis for Default removal - they won't remove it because you ask, but it's challengable if the debt is unenforceable, or the Notices are dodgy. None of which you'll know until you SAR them.

 

You say you've had a response to your CCA request - we really need to see those documents before deciding which way to proceed.

 

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Ok story so far;

 

Sent s77 letter saying i had no recollection of receiving DN and requested for a copy of the DN, copies of all bank statmts, whether or not the det was sold.

 

Received a response about 15days later as below;

 

Dear XXXX

 

Furtther to your recent letter dated xx xx xxx, please find enclosed copy of the documents as agreed.

 

S78(1) of the consumer credit Act 1974 requires us to provide ".....a copy of the executed agreement...". Regulation 3 (2) of the consumer credit (cancellation notices and copies of documents) regulations 1983 allows that certain items may be omitted from such copies, including the signature box and signature.

 

Therefor, the copy of the excuted agreement we must supply is a copy but need not be photocopy of the signed agreement. Regulation 7 of those regulations also requires us to provide a copy of the executed agreement, as varied, wherethere is apower to vary the terms of the agreement, which there is with this card agreement and that power has been exercised to vary the agreement which is the case with this card agreement.

 

We therefore enclose an up to date copy of the terms and conditions applicable to this account, acopy of the latest variation notice issued in respect of this account and a reconsituted copy of the agreement form ***THE AGREEMENT FORM CONTAINS THE ORIGINAL TERMS AND CONDITIONS ACCEPTED WHEN THE CUSTOMER ENTERED INTO THE AGREEMENT. CLAUSE....GIVES THE BANK THE RIGHT TO VARY THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS.***The variation notice shows that the terms have been varied and therefore in accordance with this legislation the up to date terms and conditions are the appropriate information to produce.

 

In addition, please find enclosed two certified statements duly stamped and signed for your records validating any debt outstanding.

 

I am able to confirm the DN is an automated process and it is not therefore possible to provide an actual copy of the letter sent to you however enclose a specimen for your records. Iam able to confirm this was issued on 26 July 2009 (their error this should have been 2006 later corrected in subs letter) with a balance of £1,5xx.xx the arrears amount was £16x.xx and the corection date was x xxx xxxx.

 

A court would be satisfied we showed that our systems produced these letters automatically and it would be sent to the address held for the customer at the time of issue. Obviously, any court would also take into account previous payments to the account and have, therefore, recognised the existence of the debt.

 

To confirm, the bank have correctly registered details of your account with the Credit Reference Agencies after they failed to maintain payments in accordance with the statements. The registration will remain on file years from the date of dafault.

 

Please note that should you wish to commence legal action........bla bla bla bla.

 

My response below;

 

I acknowledge the receipt of your letter reference CCA/EM dated xxx 2010 and I respond as follows.

  1. I note that you have replied to the above by sending a copy of your company’s current terms and conditions I must inform you that this is not sufficient to comply with the request and that your company is still in default under the act.
     
    To clarify, just sending the terms and conditions is a breach of the Act and Regulations as, apart from the information that the Regulations provide that you may exclude, the copy must be a "true copy" of the agreement.
     
    This breach of the agreement can be demonstrated as follows;
     
    As you will know section 180(1) (b) authorises, "the omission from a copy of certain material from the original, or the inclusion of certain material in condensed form." This refers to statutory instruments made under the heading Copies of document regulations and in this care in particular to SI 1983/1557.

    Before leaving section 180 there are two other sections that should be remembered, these are:
     
    Section 2(2) (a) A duty imposed by any provision of this Act (except section 35) to supply a copy of any document is not satisfied unless the copy supplied is in the prescribed form and conforms to the prescribed requirements;
     
    And more importantly
     
    Section 2(b) A duty imposed by any provision of this Act (except section 35) to supply a copy of any document is not infringed by the omission of any material, or its inclusion in condensed form, if that is authorised by regulations.

    You will see that this quite clearly states that whilst certain items may be left out of the copy document the rest of the document must be in the form and contain all items as prescribed by the regulations.
     
    Turning to the regulations regarding what may be omitted from these copies these are contained with SI 1983/1557.
    The regulations state:
    (2) There may be omitted from any such copy-
    (a) any information included in an executed agreement, security instrument or other document relating to the debtor, hirer or surety or included for the use of the creditor or owner only which is not required to be included therein by the Act or any Regulations there under as to the form and content of the document of which it is a copy;
    (b) any signature box, signature or date of signature (other than, in the case of a copy of a cancellable executed agreement delivered to the debtor under section 63(1) of the Act, the date of signature by the debtor of an agreement to which section 68(b) of the Act applies);
     
    It is quite clear what can be omitted from the copy document, this again asserts that all other details of the agreement should presented in form and content as required by the regulations.
     
    The requirements of the Agreement regulations 1983/1553 are very explicit in describing the form and content of an agreement and this as I have demonstrated also applies to the copy of any such agreement with the above mentioned proviso.
     
    Nowhere within these regulations does it state that part of the agreement can be presented on a separate document headed terms and conditions.
    It does state that all terms and conditions should be within the agreement document and is explicit of the form in which it is presented.
  2. I also requested for a statement of account for the duration of the account which you are obliged to provide under Consumer Credit Act 1974. I note you provided two pages of “Historic Statement” (one showing a debit balance of 308.54 and the other a debit balance of 158.54). This statement does not in any way cover the duration of the account nor does it give any indication of how the account was operated and balances calculated. I must also inform you that this is not sufficient to comply with the request as stated under the act thus your company is still in default of the act.

To demonstrate this non compliance, the provision of s77 of the act is stated below;

77 Duty to give information to debtor under fixed-sum credit agreement

 

(1) The creditor under a regulated agreement for fixed-sum credit, within the prescribed period after receiving a request in writing to that effect from the debtor and payment of a fee of £1, shall give the debtor a copy of the executed agreement (if any) and of any other document referred to in it, together with a statement signed by or on behalf of the creditor showing, according to the information to which it is practicable for him to refer,—

 

(a) the total sum paid under the agreement by the debtor;

 

(b) the total sum which has become payable under the agreement by the debtor but remains unpaid, and the various amounts comprised in that total sum, with the date when each became due; and

 

© the total sum which is to become payable under the agreement by the debtor, and the various amounts comprised in that total sum, with the date, or mode of determining the date, when each becomes due.

 

(2) If the creditor possesses insufficient information to enable him to ascertain the amounts and dates mentioned in subsection (1)©, he shall be taken to comply with that paragraph if his statement under subsection (1) gives the basis on which, under the regulated agreement, they would fall to be ascertained.

 

(3) Subsection (1) does not apply to—

 

(a) an agreement under which no sum is, or will or may become, payable by the debtor, or

(b) a request made less than one month after a previous request under that subsection relating to the same agreement was complied with.

 

(4) If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1)—

(a) he is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement; and

 

(b) if the default continues for one month he commits an offence.

A cheque for the sum of £1 is hereby included with this letter.

  1. You have failed to respond to the third point in my letter of xxxx 2010. I requested to know if the debt was sold on and if so that you provide the deed of assignment.
  2. I feel the default entry recorded by your company on my file was not only added unlawfully but also without merit. Doing so has immediately put you liable to a breach of Consumer Credit Act 1974, in particular s.87(1) of said Act;
     
    Section 87(1) of the 1974 Act allows the creditor to send you a default notice giving you fourteen days from the date you receive it to pay the arrears. The default notice must contain all of the necessary information under the Consumer Credit (Enforcement, Default and Termination Notices) Regulations 1983 ('the 1983 Regulations'), which includes;
     
    a statement saying the notice is a default notice served under section 87(1) of the 1974 Act
    a description of the agreement, the name and address of both the debtor and the creditor
    details of the breach (i.e. late payment) and, if the breach can be remedied, the date by which it must be remedied or, if the breach is not capable of remedy, the amount required to be paid after the expiry of the specified date;

    You have also claimed in your letter that the default notice was issued on xxxx 2009, a date which the debt was no longer in existence. As is clearly evident from your letter with regards to this default, I never received any such notice and as a result I contest the accuracy of the default and until such time you can provide proof that you complied with the above Act, you must remove all derogatory data from the files of any credit reference agency (CRA).
     
    I am more than happy to issue you a Subject Access Request which should include a copy of the documents I request, which I am hopeful will include a copy of said termination and default notices which, if they are missing, will leave me no alternative but to seek legal enforcement via CPR31.16. Without sight of said default notice, I cannot argue the authenticity, enforceability or execution and therefore will use this as my claim if I am forced into taking legal action, all costs will also be claimed.
     

It would, however, be in both our interests if you simply remove the default being there are so many inconsistencies with the alleged default notice, the date, the execution, the enforceability and the legal compliance that you must surely have no other alternative but to remove it, least of all as a gesture of goodwill? As I was never in receipt of any of the statutory documents (Notice of Termination of Contract; Notice of Assignment or Default Notice) then the actual default notice that is shown on my credit file is unlawful and should be immediately removed. I do not want to take this through the courts but I will enforce removal by judgement if necessary. You have acted unlawfully by not issuing a fully compliant and correctly executed legal document. Therefore, assuming you are happy with my proposal please confirm, in writing on letter headed paper, the following points will be carried out;

 

The Default Notice will be removed

The Status of the account will change from “Defaulted” to “Settled”

The Current Balance will appear as £0.00

The Default / Delinquent Balance will be set to £0.00

There will be no date in the “Defaulted Date” field (as it will be removed)

There will be no date in the “Date Last Delinquent” field on the report

This will apply to all 3 Credit Reference Agencies, namely Experian, Equifax & Call Credit

 

Failure to agree will result in more formal papers being sent, by return and in the meantime, I look forward to your response as I note that the initial 28days period has not expired.

 

I hope this explains why your reply was unacceptable, I your response and would remind you again that whilst the request has not been complied with the default continues.

 

HSBC's response below;

 

Dear XXXX

 

Thank you for your letter dated xxx Aug 2010.

I refer to my previous correspondence dated xxx xx xxx concerning your request that we provide you with an original signed original signed agreement (never asked for this, i asked for a copy) for the above account. We have complied with the requirements of s78 of the Consumer Credit Act. In partticular we have supplied copies compliant with Regulation 3(2)(b) of the consumer credit (cancellation notices and copies of documents) regulations 1983.

 

Furthermore, there is no duty under the Act obliging a creditor to provide further copies of copy agreements or notices already supplied under sections 61,62,63 and 64 of the Act. These copies and notices are required to be provided to the customer when the agreement was made and this was done at that time.

 

Please accept our apologies for the typing error in our previous correspondence (enclosed for your reference) I can confirm that the DN was issued on xx xx 2007 not xx xx xx 2009. I have enclosed a copy of your correspondence dated xx xx 2010. As stated, it is not our policy to delete any entry from the CRA files.

 

Should you wish to commence legal action that is a matter for you to decide. Any proceedings issued against the Bank will be vigourously defended. lease note that should you wish to commence legal action proceedings should be served at our registered office marked attention XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

 

I trust this clarifies the Bank's final position.

 

Bla bla bla.

 

This last letter is not encouraging and getting no where!

 

Other issues, i was sold credit guard insurance and was being charged monthly premium of between £11 and £12 monthly. I was also charged at various times for late payment admin charge and the default amount included the insurance premium and late payment charge.

 

What strategy will work going forward? Is the common advice to go for SAR and then legal action for wrong default amount?:confused::?:

 

I wish to set to work immediately after bank holiday.

 

Please help!!! Help!!:(

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blimey use a sledge hammer to crack a peanut...........what a waste of time bet that went in the bin when they got it.

 

as in post 4 , if you reclaim the charges and there were charges inc on the DN amount, then once they have refunded them, they must also removed the default.

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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the judgement had nowt to do with anything other than BANK ACCOUNTS

all the rest are fair game for reclaiming

 

as for signing, they are not after money, you are not disputing the debt/owe anything, so there is no issue there - sign it.

 

dx

Edited by dx100uk

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hello All,

 

Just had a reply to the SAR from HSBC, they are asking me to name a most convinient HSBC branch for me to collect any information located. They have attached a form that i can use to specify this, sign and return it to them. Any one experience this before? I don't know why they are asking this, they have been using my address to correspond with me. Should I sign this and specify a branch?

 

Help all.

 

Tnxxxxx

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save postage?

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Yeah tis normal, they claim its more secure sending to their branch and getting you to go in and collect it. I've done it twice before and its no extra hassle, they'll just hand it over once you've proved who you are.

 

Oh and HSBC like their paper so you can expect to receive half a tree.

 

S.

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However herofad , you are entitled to have it delivered to your home address if that is your wish ............... :-)

Nemo me impune lacessit

 

 

Advice & opinions given by johnnymitch are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

 

If you think I've helped you please feel free to tickle my star :-D

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Hi Guys,

I have been reading with interest, I have a default on a Bank account with HSBC I have written to Metropolotan there in house collectors and made the partial offer for the full amount Im hoping they will accept, i dont hold muct hope I have asked for the condition that they remove the default on the Account, sorry to hijack here but does anyone know if they can be challenged on the terms and conditions if they was not provided, i.e can they provide a signed consent to process data.

thanks and keep up the good work.

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  • 4 weeks later...

thnx Jonny. Got reply to SAR yesterday, as part of the SAR, requested for documents relating to Insurance on Credit Card, intrestingly HSBC claimed on the response that this is not applicable, but on the copy of the credit agreement , it was clearely stated (ticked) that i wish to purchase Cardholder Repayment Protector and Cardcard. Cardholder Protector is to protect card repayments in case of accident, unemployment etc. Insurance premium was been debited to the accounts, i have copies of all statements as sent by HSBC which clearly shows this. What should i do next?

 

Should i proceed to make a claim for misold PPI by filing court claim?

 

Please advice good peeps.

 

Thanks

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Hi herofad

 

If you think it has been mis-sold , pop over to the PPI forum and post your question there , you'll get loads of help ...very knowledgeable peeps on there .... here's the link :

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/forumdisplay.php?111-Payment-Protection-Insurance-(PPI)

 

Let's know how it goes for you ....... :D

Nemo me impune lacessit

 

 

Advice & opinions given by johnnymitch are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

 

If you think I've helped you please feel free to tickle my star :-D

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  • 7 months later...

Hello all,

 

I got a reply from HSBC to my claims today agreeing to refund defaults charges with interest, I am yet to call HSBC to check with them but I do not think they refunded PPI charges as the letter only refered to default charges. As advised on this forum, if HSBC agreed admit that charges were wrong then I can get them to remove the DN on this basis. But the letter I got don't seem to reflect that, HSBC still claim the charges were fair and reasonable and that they are only refunding the charges due to OFT's publications in 2006 which changed market practices. They have attached a condition to this offer they will only refund the charges if I agree not to make any further claims or take legal action and recover default charges in future by signing a letter stating this within 10 working days!(letter to be signed was attached to the letter sent to me). They have referred to the payment as goodwill Payment! Truly I don't need the refund I just want to get them to remove the DN.

 

Can someone please help answer the below questions?

 

1/. If I sign the letter can I still chase them to remove the DN?

2/. Will signing the letter prevent me from chasing them on the PPI?

3/. What if I don't agree to their condition can I still haunt HSBC in court to remove the DN based on the letter they have written?

 

Its been a battle between David and Goliath, the DN is really affecting me in so many ways!

 

Help your advise will be highly appreciated.

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hi herofad ,

 

Sounds like the usual waffle to me ... and I think I'm right in saying that they are not allowed to put conditions like that on their settlements ... can you imagine what they'd say if you said to them .. "okay I'll pay your charges this time , but don't come looking for any more "...

 

You are fully entitled to reclaim PPI if you think you are due refunds .. go for it ...

 

I would think that if the "market practices changed " then so did the criteria for giving you a DN ... I would press them to wipe the slate clean given the statement in their letter ... don't think they'd like to argue it in court ...

 

They were doing this sort of thing before the Test case ... people on here were advised to delete the condition that you wouldn't pursue further claims and send it off .... and they paid up anyway ... albeit claiming that it was a "Goodwill" payment ..

 

Maybe someone else will have suggestions on this too .. but that's MHO ... :)

Nemo me impune lacessit

 

 

Advice & opinions given by johnnymitch are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

 

If you think I've helped you please feel free to tickle my star :-D

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nice to see you on JM..........

 

exactly correct

 

you are under no obl to agree to any conditions

 

simple cross out the terms and clearly state that you do not wish to be held by them.

 

remind them that as they are admitiing to these being being unlawful penalty charges in all but exact word, those neg markers that were as a direct result of their unlawful charges should be removed immediately as they do not now, under their own admission, truly reflect how you operated the account - but more how they acted unlawfully.

 

i will give you 14 days to confirm these markers will be removed, should this not be the case, a complaint will be registered with the information commissioners Office and any/all other regulators.

 

as for the PPI

 

you did make 2 separate claims - not just one for both charges & PPI?

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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