ESA and Atos! A legal case for violation of human rights?

[cameronjcw]

I totally agree with both of you there. They don't take anything into consideration. Not medication not the fact that you may be currently receiving treatment. I think they would be happy just to try and work us all into an early grave!

 

This is an article that is available on the benefits and work website!

 

Thousands will lose benefits as harsher medical approved

 

Tens of thousands of claimants facing losing their benefit on review, or on being transferred from incapacity benefit, as plans to make the employment and support allowance (ESA) medical much harder to pass are approved by the secretary of state for work and pensions, Yvette Cooper.

The shock plans for ‘simplifying’ the work capability assessment, drawn up by a DWP working group, include docking points from amputees who can lift and carry with their stumps. Claimants with speech problems who can write a sign saying, for example, ‘The office is on fire!’ will score no points for speech and deaf claimants who can read the sign will lose all their points for hearing.

Meanwhile, for ‘health and safety reasons’ all points scored for problems with bending and kneeling are to be abolished and claimants who have difficulty walking can be assessed using imaginary wheelchairs.

Claimants who have difficulty standing for any length of time will, under the plans, also have to show they have equal difficulty sitting, and vice versa, in order to score any points. And no matter how bad their problems with standing and sitting, they will not score enough points to be awarded ESA.

In addition, almost half of the 41 mental health descriptors for which points can be scored are being removed from the new ‘simpler’ test, greatly reducing the chances of being found incapable of work due to such things as poor memory, confusion, depression and anxiety.

There are some improvements to the test under the plans, including exemptions for people likely to be starting chemotherapy and more mental health grounds for being admitted to the support group. But the changes are overwhelmingly about pushing tens of thousands more people onto JSA.

If all this sounds like a sick and rather belated April Fools joke to you, we’re not surprised. But the proposals are genuine and have already been officially agreed by Yvette Cooper, the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions. They have not yet been passed into law, but given that both Labour and the Conservatives seem intent on driving as many people as possible off incapacity related benefits, they are likely to be pursued by whichever party wins the election.

We know that many people will find this news deeply upsetting and even frightening and we know that some people will condemn us for publicising the planned changes or for the language that we are using to do so. But we also believe that it’s not too late to stop these ugly plans in their tracks if claimants and the organisations that represent them act now.

With 1.5 million incapacity benefit claimants waiting to be assessed using the work capability assessment in the next few years and tens of thousands of people already on ESA and set to be reviewed annually, these changes will be of great concern to many voters – if they find out about them before polling day.

So, please spread the word in forums and blogs and to people you know who may be affected. Ask any disability charity you have a connection with to speak out now, before election day, against these plans. You might also want to contact local newspapers and radio to warn people about the proposals.

And above all, contact not just your MP, but the other candidates in your constituency, and let them know you will not be voting for anyone who does not loudly condemn this shameful attack on sick and disabled claimants.

These plans really are a potential seat loser, but only if enough people know about them.

[Helen2264]

jsa is not the right benefit for those that have health problems/disabilities',you are expected to be job ready

 

You are right there but that's where I was thrown straight from Income Support last year I suppose the dwp are eager to cut benefit without delay.

[Helen2264]

almost half of the 41 mental health descriptors for which points can be scored are being removed from the new ‘simpler’ test, greatly reducing the chances of being found incapable of work due to such things as poor memory, confusion, depression and anxiety.

 

I am just filling my IB50 form I was surprised how short it was and there isn't much related to my ill health I suffer from panic attacks and anxieties which give me depression my condition gets worst when I am outside there are lots of things that I cannot do, I cannot go near a tube station, scalators, crowded places, the list are endless I shall tell them in a separate sheet of papers what I suffer and challenge them to test me appropriately I am prepared to be wired up and taken to the places where my panic attacks is tenfold then see what they would say it's all too well stating about bending, kneeling and pick up which I can do whilst in the safety in my own home even though I do suffer from panic attacks and anxiety indoors but I can just drop what I am doing and go to lie down somewhere until my panic attacks wear off I could not do that if I am working and away from the safety of my home my job is very demanding so until I conquer my fear of being outdoor I will not get better. Even my Jobcentre advisor told me not to look for work whilst I am in that state just concentrate on my health I've had a few panic attacks whilst talking to her and 100% I break in a sweat just being there when I was signing on they've see me in bad states all the times it's amazing how the Job Centre Advisor behaves very different to the one that don't see you face to face. I shall state this in my notes I do not fear them because I am talking the truth I've even ask the dwp to give me a lie detector test they won't do it but they are prepare to deny my illness and throw me on JSA don't make sense does it.

[Helen2264]

please spread the word in forums and blogs and to people you know who may be affected. Ask any disability charity you have a connection with to speak out now, before election day, against these plans. You might also want to contact local newspapers and radio to warn people about the proposals.

And above all, contact not just your MP, but the other candidates in your constituency, and let them know you will not be voting for anyone who does not loudly condemn this shameful attack on sick and disabled claimants.

These plans really are a potential seat loser, but only if enough people know about them.

 

I am afraid I have try telling people we must fight this new system even in different forums but for some reason I seems to be scaring people off. It surprises me when people come in the forum almost crying or suicidal about their failed medicals or benefits stop or very frightened about going to their medicals but when you say the word fight for your rights they run away. Alas! I will fight for my own rights if I suceed hopefully I can convince people this is the way to go.

[cameronjcw]

I can sympathise complately!

 

I have been speaking to a really amazing woman the last few days called Moira (Mo) Fifield who has offered to take on my case and has years of welfare experience, been comparing notes on our conditions and its very interesting to say the least. I also got a call from girl in my local MP's office who asked if I would need a support worker, hell yes!! She also said she will call the benefits place but I think most of them were closed today cause of the bank holiday so hopefully hear from her tomorrow, before I go to the dreaded job centre.

 

She has told me to pass on her details to anyone who needs help with the ESA/DWP and is genuine, free help! All she asks is you pay for your own postage and phone calls which IMO is more than fair. Am probably going to be setting up a welfare website for her and her friends which will am sure have lots of valuable information and contacts, lots of welfare places have disappeared because of lack of funding.

 

Anyway if its ok with the site owner can I post link to my site or her e-mail which she has given me freely and told me to pass on the info to others, am hoping I can learn from her, she really is an amazing woman, she is bedridden and is so ill, a lot more ill than I and probably many others are and still managed to help others and with a smile on her face! I am still wishing to puruse the violation of human rights thing although still waiting to hear back from the lawyer I e-mailed and will also ask Mo as she already has he own case going to the EC because of the treatment her and her children have had to put up with which is absolutely horrific!!

 

Anyway thats a quick update, its great to feel like you are doing something to be able to help others in the same situation, even just a small message or communication with others in the same position makes such a huge difference!

[cameronjcw]

Yes you do still get a lot of people who sort of retreat when you invite them to fight for the right to be treated as a human being. I think a lot of people are so scared by this new system that they do get too scared to do anything about it in case it makes their already terrible situation worse. Ive been far too apprehensive the last year myself but I think that was more down to me trying to ignore my condition and jsut get on with things which really doesnt work at all. Im with you though and will fight to the death if I have to. I have nothing to lose anyway but plenty to gain!

 

please spread the word in forums and blogs and to people you know who may be affected. Ask any disability charity you have a connection with to speak out now, before election day, against these plans. You might also want to contact local newspapers and radio to warn people about the proposals.

And above all, contact not just your MP, but the other candidates in your constituency, and let them know you will not be voting for anyone who does not loudly condemn this shameful attack on sick and disabled claimants.

These plans really are a potential seat loser, but only if enough people know about them.

 

I am afraid I have try telling people we must fight this new system even in different forums but for some reason I seems to be scaring people off. It surprises me when people come in the forum almost crying or suicidal about their failed medicals or benefits stop or very frightened about going to their medicals but when you say the word fight for your rights they run away. Alas! I will fight for my own rights if I suceed hopefully I can convince people this is the way to go.

[doktorjohn]

It's all very Orwellian - naming a sickness/disability benefit - "Employment Support Allowance" for people who can't be employed, only to tell those same people that they do not qualify for it.

 

dj

[Guest jsa12]

i have the same panic attacks and phobia around people,i also found the job centre to a source of problems too,outbreaks of temper from people out of the blue often shouting does nothing for an individual with these problems that has to sit and watch this,and pressure from the job centre as someone is expected now to attend courses with everyone else.they will refer someone to disability charities sometimes however time is short,they expect you to take control of your life instantly which is impossible,all this with vacancies in short supply and heavily over applicated.

 

it is illegal to discriminate against the disabled but only one dwp member of staff has acknowledged it to me that it goes on and proving it is extremely difficult,another point overlooked is the real possibility of the time spent signing on repeatadly for some considerable time as by the terms of the illness someone is at a disadvantage.

[cameronjcw]

I am off to job centre today, wrist splints on and all and I will be recording the conversation, had a woman from disability now last week asking if I would like to pasrticipate in a BBC documentary about disability benefits and the state of current system, I said yes but didnt wanna be on telly but now I will if I have to, am trying to get people together for this to get their point, experinces accross and will also be contacting channel 4, channel 5 and as many papers as possible that will listen.

 

Let me know if you are interested in helping. I also have contact for a rather amazing woman who is a welfare benefits expert and is severly disabled, terrible nightmare scenario she is in and still helping others, she has a few friends in same posiotion who are also welfare experts. Anywya have to go get ready for my appt at the Knob Centre!

[Helen2264]

it is illegal to discriminate against the disabled but only one dwp member of staff has acknowledged it to me that it goes on and proving it is extremely difficult,another point overlooked is the real possibility of the time spent signing on repeatadly for some considerable time as by the terms of the illness someone is at a disadvantage.

My Job Centre advisor told me the same things she always used to remind me that she doesn't treat people badly

"I am not one of them she used to say to me" she also told me appparently there are a lot of new recruits that has been trained to ignore peoples' illnesses and pleas they are form the new school the old school people are more sympathetic hence! they got rid of the old and in with the new trained uncaring staff also they've changed the words claimants to customers because it has two different meaning I don't know why I should be dwp's customer as I am not buying any grocery from them I am merely claiming some money due to my disabilitate ill health. A customer buy a pint of milk at a grocery shop a claimant claim money because they are unable to work or out of work. I certainly will remind them of their discriminations with regards to my health the IB50 is barely directed to my mental ill health just a little bit of question. The way to get to the dwp is give them your job descriptions and why you cannot at present hold down a job with that skill. I know someone that has work with British Rail for years and has had a massive breakdown and been laid off work because of the great danger it entail part of the person's job was being a watch man which mean they have to watch out for incoming trains whilst the rail men lays the rail track I would like to see the dwp tell the person to go back to that sort of work.

 

how many times are spent waiting if you suffer from panic attacks are always a disadvantage sometimes I just want to run out the building and the longer one waits the worst it gets. There are always cameras everywhere in the dwp building everywhere you turn there is one I would challenge them to watch the videos on gthe many sign on I went for they can see for themselves.

[cameronjcw]

Well my so called interview went as expected, sat argueing with both the manager and the so called advisor who both ignored anything I said about my condition or the medication I am on, put in complaint in writing, they tried to bull**** me all the way through but tehy have seriously picked a fight with the wrong person. I recorded it all!!! I told them at the end that I had I dont give a **** and u know what they said "thats an infringement of our civil liberties" lol yeah I asked them what about mine!!! No answer for that effing idiots I swear they will rue teh day they picked on me.

[Guest jsa12]

peoples illnesses are not going to disappear overnight,its clearly wrong to take this view.it came about a while back when the now disgraced peter hain was mistakenly advised or took the view that mental health problems' could be managed by work and that everyone would be better off as a result.this went against the laws of jobseekers allowance that people who were deemed sick were not entitled to this benefit this looks have been papered over too,as mentioned a job has to be taken if offered and a person is expected by the rules to be fit to take it,or sanctions would follow.this has created a situation where people have been told they unable to claim esa and have been told by the job centre that they are unfit to claim jsa.

 

it is a situation where attempts are made to paper over illnesses,while it might bring about short term cost savings,the individual is at the receiving end.the disabled are entitled to reasonable adjustments in the workplace however what the real outcome of this is unclear,certainly the adviser that mentioned to me about discrimination and proof went on that to mention about the possibility of never working again because of the time personally i experienced unemployed, another later meeting with another adviser and was informed that "i don't tell people that". from my own experience i stayed on jsa when multiple times' it was suggested by the job centre in the past to take the then incapacity benefit,i did not but given the outcome it has to be given consideration to fact that jobseekers is not the right idea as from my own experience at least finding employment is non existent.

 

there are disability advisers in the job centre but they are limited to what they can do,again they can refer you to programs for the disabled,but these tend to run quickly have expectations' that are not easily met due to the economic climate before disability is encountered and are again limited in outcome.its difficult to say what the outcome of success will be for those transferred onto jobseekers,however its hoped it wont be a negative long term one.

[cameronjcw]

Just a quick bump, not forgotten about this. The woman Im in contact with is already raising an action for things like this, once I get more info I will post it!

[loan_ranger]

What gets my goat is the research study which Lord Fraud (Freud) and HMG keep trotting out, the study which says work is good for mental health. The study was entirely funded by UNUM Provident, the same company which helped ATOSh to develop the "Logic-integrated Medical Assessment" (LiMA) and further helped ATOSh in their bid to get the DWP Medical Assessor contract. UNUM created the forerunner of LiMA for the U.S. health insurance industry in order to reduce the numbers and amounts of successful medical insurance claims - they achieved this goal by redefining illnesses and disabilities to make it harder to pass the medical examinations. UNUM have lost numerous law-suits in the U.S. over refused payouts. In 2007 Unum was forced by state regulators to reopen 290,000 disability insurance claims that had been rejected, including a case where 'Unum insisted that a man who had quintuple bypass surgery was fit to go back to his job at a stock brokerage firm, even though his doctors said the stress might kill him' and where Unum 'refused benefits to a man who had had multiple heart attacks'. This behaviour caused California Insurance Commissioner John Garamendi to state that 'UnumProvident is an outlaw company. It is a company that for years has operated in an illegal fashion.

[cameronjcw]

Thanks for that information its really useful with this case. Just goes to show how corrupt the system is! Makes me soo angry!!

[Bipolar bear]

got a letter from atos yesterday with the ib50 form in it virtually nothing about mentall illness in it I have bipolar and fibromyalgia and atm am in a bad way due to a fraud investigation ongoing and benefits problems from that this feels like the last straw to me.

[Guest jsa12]

the number of cases appearing before the citizens bureau is risen steeply.

 

http://www.dailyfinance.co.uk/2010/09/01/aid-sought-over-ill-health-benefits/

 

http://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/press_20100323

 

this is not short of controversy as can be seen.

[cameronjcw]

Bi Polar Bear I really wish I could give you some kind of help or advice. Are you still receiving your benefits currently??

 

Im still getting messed around feels likie y, the last straw for me too today. Please hang in there if you send me a PM Theres a woman I know who might be able to put you in touch with someone who could help.

 

My brain is fried with all this crap todaym feel like Im gonna throw up or pass out or both.

[Bipolar bear]

No mate, they cut off IB & IS 22 July, my wifes been trying to sort us out with in total £148 dla and cb a week since then and with rent @ £130 and bills run up when manic over 30k its now dire and I know exactly how you feel he\ad wise.

[cameronjcw]

Thats terrible!!

[Guest jsa12]

Yep, it's someone posting about their experiences that others can share in, and a good sounding board, it's absolutely fine, and I'm sure others will enjoy reading it.

 

unfortunately the time people read this they are a victim of unfairness and the damage is sadly done,if any comments help prevent a repeat then it is worthwhile,its not a sounding board its a fact of reality faced by those who are sick and disabled,the sickness benefits system was widely abused by the former dhs over the years,and indeed this continued up to the last year or or so where hard core long term unemployed were encouraged/pushed onto this benefit for convenience of unemployment statistics' attending dhs interviews' it was once said to me that "people who are not considered to find work are placed on another benefit",now because of cost vast numbers of sick people are being unfairly treated by placing them on jsa giving little consideration to someones illness,outlook or long term prospects of actually finding work at all,and attempting to claim people as fit as a fiddle,this term might be considered appropriate given the dubious methods used are based on the american insurance industry that has been employed here by the dwp.

[cameronjcw]

Myself and a couple of other people with experience of this and other rare conditions are working together to start a charity to help people with rare conditions access better medical, social and welfare advice and help. The main site should be up and running in 2-3 days at the very most and we have lots of other plans to bring all the other smaller organizations in that deal wtih these and other rare conditions. I will obviously run the link by site admin here before I post it but really excited about it and we all hope its going to help in a lot of ways, too much to write about at the moment but well you can have a look in a few days once its sorted!!

 

Just giving this a quick bump cause I havent forgotten about this thread and this site will also be addressing the issues discussed in this and other similar threads!!

[Guest jsa12]

its extremely hard to find any employment with a disability any mention particularly mental health and the attitude changes on the phone immediately ,its also expensive using public transport when on jobseekers allowance and the job centre have unrealistic expectations and try to push for ridiculous distances and you dont feel like it,i am back in the doctors in the morning for a review and my mood is terrible.

 

how the government and take the action they are doing and hope it will work i dont know,its not fair to tell people they are fit to work when they are clearly going to have trouble coping.

[loan_ranger]

got a letter from atos yesterday with the ib50 form in it virtually nothing about mentall illness in it I have bipolar and fibromyalgia and atm am in a bad way due to a fraud investigation ongoing and benefits problems from that this feels like the last straw to me.

Hi Bipolar bear, I'm on IB and over ten years I've learned this:

On the IB50 the amount of space allowing you to describe how your condition affects you is minimal, it says you can write more on a further page (2 pages further) however that is limited by size as well.

You obviously have a computer, do you have a printer? I say this because I recommend that you attach additional info off the form. On this method and on the form you say "see attached pages" (keep a copy of these for reference) and remember to title and number the separate pages "Additional IB50 information, page 1 of (x, how many you send) - NINO: (your national insurance number) + your date of birth + date sent, do this on every page of the separate additional info and keep copies.

If you have been diagnosed with a mental health condition it is important to mention this and stress how you are affected on you worst days Mr. or Mrs Bi-Polar.

 

For most MH sufferers its hard work and long years even to get a correct diagnosis. The shrinks think that it's kinder to be ambiguous and not let us know the name of our illnesses or disorders, however the DWP insists that they should know the name of our condition from the claimant, therefore if you have been diagnosed or seen a shrink you should name them and provide an address if possible.

 

The more additional info you can provide - the better. Apparently I'm too ill to require a medical since I sent them my notes over two and a half years back, they don't even send me an IB50 even though my last one was due 6 months ago, certain conditions aren't required to be examined by the medical test, I think diagnosed Bi-Polar could be one of those. Therefore a well answered IB50 + additional pages could save you the indignity and stress of a medical.

Good luck, Paul.