Jump to content
Hip_Hop

Does a void BOS decision change the status of a CCA fixed sum loan agreement?

style="text-align:center;"> Please note that this topic has not had any new posts for the last 3577 days.

If you are trying to post a different story then you should start your own new thread. Posting on this thread is likely to mean that you won't get the help and advice that you need.

If you are trying to post information which is relevant to the story in this thread then please flag it up to the site team and they will allow you to post.

Thank you

Recommended Posts

HI,

 

if a BOS is found to be void, other than changing the status of the loan agreement from a secured to unsecured by removing the "secured by a Bill of Sale" how else, is the agreement regulated by the CCA affected?

Edited by Hip_Hop
expansion

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
HI,

 

if a BOS is found to be void, other than changing the status of the loan agreement from a secured to unsecured by removing the "secured by a Bill of Sale" how else, is the agreement regulated by the CCA affected?

 

 

Hip- hop. you need to post the problem you are having with lbl. it is very hard to fight a bill of sale ( you will even find it hard to get a solicitor to fight one) there are 3 ways to get out of a bill of sale. but none will help if we dont know what your problem is.

 

if you are looking for just a way out of a bill of sale (this is not going to happen) have you been making payments ..... how far is your loan........ what problems are you having.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi CCTV,

 

Am just popping out but will outline my problem with LBL later and hope you can advise.

 

Regards

Hip_Hop

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

briefly, LBL sent a repossession agent to recover my car on 4 June because I'd fallen into arrears due to loss of income. Agent said that I would have to pay £879 to keep car, no prior default notice for that amount was served. I paid £879 on 4 June, then on 6 June, received Default Notice in post saying I owe £523 otherwise car will be repossessed. I ignored Notice as did not believe that I owed £523 as I had paid up to date on 4 June. Lost faith in LBL and was waiting until end of August to pay car off completely. on 2 August agent from Anglia turned up unannounced to take car and I immediately filed claim in

county court
link3.gif
for return of car and breach of contract based on unfair arbitrary way LB treated me in view of my personal circumstances, demanding monies not due and threatening repossession without issuing valid default notice on 4 June. (CCA 1974), also suing for misrepresentation, as when I paid £879 on 6 June I was led to believe that arrears were being brought up to date. Also claiming for refund of charges, telephone calls
link3.gif
which are not listed in Loan Agreement, agents fees etc. Have recently found out that BOS
link3.gif
may be void as it was registered in Supreme Court on 9th day after execution, so do not think repossession is lawful in any event. LBL have agreed to stay all action on my account, not sell my car, however, I need my car for work as I now have a new job in field sales, and am claiming compensation on a daily basis for loss of earnings.

 

For courtesy reasons I have double posted this response here(for readers of this thread only), as well as under an 8 year rule thread too, (as part of a request by CCTV Engineer to another question I posted to the forum), before he can release his 3 ways to get out of a Bills of sale formula via PM.) Hip_Hop

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
briefly, LBL sent a repossession agent to recover my car on 4 June because I'd fallen into arrears due to loss of income. Agent said that I would have to pay £879 to keep car, no prior default notice for that amount was served. I paid £879 on 4 June, then on 6 June, received Default Notice in post saying I owe £523 otherwise car will be repossessed. I ignored Notice as did not believe that I owed £523 as I had paid up to date on 4 June. Lost faith in LBL and was waiting until end of August to pay car off completely. on 2 August agent from Anglia turned up unannounced to take car and I immediately filed claim in

county court
link3.gif
for return of car and breach of contract based on unfair arbitrary way LB treated me in view of my personal circumstances, demanding monies not due and threatening repossession without issuing valid default notice on 4 June. (CCA 1974), also suing for misrepresentation, as when I paid £879 on 6 June I was led to believe that arrears were being brought up to date. Also claiming for refund of charges, telephone calls
link3.gif
which are not listed in Loan Agreement, agents fees etc. Have recently found out that BOS
link3.gif
may be void as it was registered in Supreme Court on 9th day after execution, so do not think repossession is lawful in any event. LBL have agreed to stay all action on my account, not sell my car, however, I need my car for work as I now have a new job in field sales, and am claiming compensation on a daily basis for loss of earnings.

 

For courtesy reasons I have double posted this response here(for readers of this thread only), as well as under an 8 year rule thread too, (as part of a request by CCTV Engineer to another question I posted to the forum), before he can release his 3 ways to get out of a Bills of sale formula via PM.) Hip_Hop

 

 

 

Hi Hip-hop. can i ask how you know the date on your bill of sale is over 7 days. ...... you can only get this info from the court.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

HI CCTV.

 

As you are aware from my other BOS thread that you responded "a bill of sale 7 clear days. is from the solicitor attesting the bill of sale to being stamped at the court". I disagree It is 7 clear days from the date of execution of the bos.

 

You also commented in that thread "what you have to remember is that its the supreme court that checks the bill of sale before stamping. they are NOT going to stamp out of date bill of sales"

 

CCTV,They have in this instance and do stamp Bills of sale outside of the requirements of the act. Hence the reason other posters in this forum have had cases dropped. Most cases that are dropped occur before hearings and confidentiality contracts are signed. That is why you hear very little about successful claimant details. Post success.

 

 

You asked, "can i ask how you know the date on your bill of sale is over 7 days. ...... you can only get this info from the court".

 

My bos (Stamped,by the supreme Court with registration number), was executed on a Tuesday and was date stamped at the Supreme Court on the Wednesday of the following week. This is well over the clear 7 days requirement detailed in the act.

 

Incidentally although the validity of the Bos element is clear cut (it falls outside of the 7 clear days ruling) . It will be the judge who will determine the legality of the Bos at my hearing, nevertheless it is a disappointment, that you have decided not to forward me via PM the information you have on ( the 3 ways to get out of a bill of sale). You offered it on the basis that I posted my problems with LBL on the forum but have decided not to reciprocate with the information requested.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Hip-hop. you are right a bill of sale is 7 clear days from execution. and a bill of sale is and can only be executed by a solicitor ( so you are looking at the date from solicitor to court)

and NOT from the day you signed the CA.

 

now the reason why i will not give you info .... and dont take this the wrong way.......... info thats is given is from a barrister and as you have seen from stubs post today the info works. but if we post it up then others will not be able to use that info as lbl will protect themselfs. and also lbl use this forum and i dont know if you are from lbl or not.

 

now this is the problem i have with your post.

 

1. you say you have a logbook loans bill of sale ( it will be in the name of nine regions ) not lbl

2. you will not have seen your true bill of sale (you need to get it from the court) it is not there at the signing.

3. you have pm.ed me and i have asked you for info which you still have not given (copy of bos you have)

 

now i would say you need to see a solicitor because you are fighting this the wrong way. lbl now have your car forget the bill of sale thats a fight for later. you should be getting a court order for them not to sell your car (you say lbl are holding your car till sorted) DO NOT LISTEN TO THEM 5 days and its gone. and you will also be billed for it.

 

so if you need help you need to post up your bill of sale. not just for me but others on here also. ims had the same problem as you and won. so forgive me for being blunt but as you can see from 3 of your posts you have not given the info we need when asked.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

CCTV,

 

I have attached edited Stamped Cover and the 2 page Bill of Sale that was signed by their agent (who has subsequently moved on.) and myself. I will get a copy of the sworn affidavit too. I did check with the law firm he used to attest these Bills and they confirmed they did sign a number of these for pin money when he used to turn up with reams of them on a regular basis.

 

CCTV, I will beg to differ on your interpretation when the 7 clear days expires as Hoff 135 did too on my other thread on advice from another Barrister, hopefully, someone can offer a true legal opinion on what constitutes the execution date of the Bill of Sale, the signing date between the two interested parties or attestation date? Edit note:- See posting below with possible answer.

The Bill Of Sale is not my primary defence as I explained in my earlier posting in this same thread, I was just a little intrigued by your teaser that there are 3 ways to counter their Bill of Sale but, I am sure the advice that has been used successfully against Nine Regions, will also be common knowledge to their legal team, in any event. You can't ignore that It has been used 3 or more times before?

 

I will also personally go to the court and double check what they have filed as part of my due diligence process but the advice of the Barrister that you have, will be helpful as part of my wider and more diverse defence strategy, of which the Bill of Sale point is but just a small consideration as highlighted earlier.

 

I therefore look forward to receiving it by PM by return and to reporting my own personal victory too in due course.

Edited by Hip_Hop

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

CCTV, I think have the answer to what constitutes as the date of execution of the Bill of Sale.

 

Look at the 2nd page and just above the schedule, it clearly states "In witness whereof this Bill of sale has been executed as a deed by the Borrower on the above date"

 

That date is 30th June. The Bill of Sale document/Bills of Sale Act (1878) Amendment Act 1882 does not allude to another execution date that will be fixed at some point in the future after signing by one or more credible witness/es (solicitor/Bank Manager/Doctor?) at a time and date of their choosing in addition to the dated, witness (underwriter) on the BOS.

 

The act states clearly only that "The execution of every bill of sale by the grantor shall be attested by one or more credible witness or witnesses, not being a party or parties"

 

The date of that execution is clearly marked as 30th June....As long as that date and the signatures are attested as being true, the documented execution date does not change,date remains as expressed in the Bill of Sale document of being 30 June.

 

On a separate note, does anyone know if there is a ruling that bills of sale on vehicles over 8 years are permissible under law or is that some thing that log book loans companies stipulate to only get newer, more saleable vehicles on their books? I ask as this vehicle was over 12 years old when the BOS was assigned to it as security.

Edited by Hip_Hop

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
CCTV,

 

I have attached edited Stamped Cover and the 2 page Bill of Sale that was signed by their agent (who has subsequently moved on.) and myself. I will get a copy of the sworn affidavit too. I did check with the law firm he used to attest these Bills and they confirmed they did sign a number of these for pin money when he used to turn up with reams of them on a regular basis.

 

CCTV, I will beg to differ on your interpretation when the 7 clear days expires as Hoff 135 did too on my other thread on advice from another Barrister, hopefully, someone can offer a true legal opinion on what constitutes the execution date of the Bill of Sale, the signing date between the two interested parties or attestation date? Edit note:- See posting below with possible answer.

The Bill Of Sale is not my primary defence as I explained in my earlier posting in this same thread, I was just a little intrigued by your teaser that there are 3 ways to counter their Bill of Sale but, I am sure the advice that has been used successfully against Nine Regions, will also be common knowledge to their legal team, in any event. You can't ignore that It has been used 3 or more times before?

 

I will also personally go to the court and double check what they have filed as part of my due diligence process but the advice of the Barrister that you have, will be helpful as part of my wider and more diverse defence strategy, of which the Bill of Sale point is but just a small consideration as highlighted earlier.

 

I therefore look forward to receiving it by PM by return and to reporting my own personal victory too in due course.

 

Hi hip-hop. you have a problem with who you have been paying. you do need to see a solicitor. the guys who you paid were LBL the company who say you owe money and took your car are nine regions ltd (not the same company) check all letters and look at the company reg numbers at the bottom and post them on here also look at your payments (they will have been going to logbook loans ltd

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi CCTV,

Where are you reading that my Bill of Sale is with Log Book Loans Ltd??? The Bill of Sale above is between myself and Nine Regions Ltd trading as Log Book Loans. The CCA is between myself and Nine Regions Ltd Trading as Log Book Loans.

 

Also on a separate thread (MM Advice) you advise Zaccky on 24th August "first you car was too old for a bill of sale. they might of known this and is the reason for not chasing you". But you don't follow up on his question as "How do you know you cant issue a BOS on a car over 8 years old?"

My Bill of Sale is secured against a car that was over 12 years old when the BOS was secured against it (See BOS). Please advise what you mean legally by a car being too old for a Bill of Sale.

 

Finally, please don't take this the wrong way but will you now send me via PM your Barrister's advice or confirm that you do not wish to oblige and I will stop requesting. I have not had a response to my earlier PM request following up on posting both my issues with LBL and the copy of BOS, both of which I have done.

 

Hi hip-hop. you have a problem with who you have been paying. you do need to see a solicitor. the guys who you paid were LBL the company who say you owe money and took your car are nine regions ltd (not the same company) check all letters and look at the company reg numbers at the bottom and post them on here also look at your payments (they will have been going to logbook loans ltd

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

That date is 30th June. The Bill of Sale document/Bills of Sale Act (1878) Amendment Act 1882 does not allude to another execution date that will be fixed at some point in the future after signing by one or more credible witness/es (solicitor/Bank Manager/Doctor?) at a time and date of their choosing in addition to the dated, witness (underwriter) on the BOS.

 

The act states clearly only that "The execution of every bill of sale by the grantor shall be attested by one or more credible witness or witnesses, not being a party or parties"

 

The date of that execution is clearly marked as 30th June....As long as that date and the signatures are attested as being true, the documented execution date does not change,date remains as expressed in the Bill of Sale document of being 30 June.

 

 

so the solicitor was present at the signing ???

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hi CCTV,

Where are you reading that my Bill of Sale is with Log Book Loans Ltd??? The Bill of Sale above is between myself and Nine Regions Ltd trading as Log Book Loans. The CCA is between myself and Nine Regions Ltd Trading as Log Book Loans.

 

Also on a separate thread (MM Advice) you advise Zaccky on 24th August "first you car was too old for a bill of sale. they might of known this and is the reason for not chasing you". But you don't follow up on his question as "How do you know you cant issue a BOS on a car over 8 years old?"

My Bill of Sale is secured against a car that was over 12 years old when the BOS was secured against it (See BOS). Please advise what you mean legally by a car being too old for a Bill of Sale.

 

Finally, please don't take this the wrong way but will you now send me via PM your Barrister's advice or confirm that you do not wish to oblige and I will stop requesting. I have not had a response to my earlier PM request following up on posting both my issues with LBL and the copy of BOS, both of which I have done.

 

 

Hi hip-hop. i cant read your attachments they are too small. its just your posts have been saying lbl. so if everything is in nine regions ltd i.e your bos amd your CA. then what problem do you have. you paid on the 4th june then on 6 June, received Default Notice in post. (we dont get post on a sunday) if you talk to a solicitor monday morning he will have your car back by monday afternoon. you can see its an admin problem

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi CCTV,

 

I am sorry to have troubled you. I simply asked you to forward on the barrister's advice given to you and to qualify advice given to others. As I have a car that is over 12 years old secured by a BOS it seemed reasonable to ask you to qualify advice you gave to another member that, you can't issue a BOS on a car over 8 years old. You won't qualify this when asked and won't respond to the question how that advice was arrived at.

 

Also with respect CCTV, my case against Nine regions is different to the one that you won against them on your own, without a solicitor, back in May (with the help of the Barrister's advice?)

 

I am happy that you had your day in court and won. Well done! I also appreciate that you may have a difference of opinion on various legal contractual matters that my post may give rise to, but my request was simply for you to forward on the advice given to you by this barrister.

 

I thought that this would be a simple request, one that you would be able to accede to, once your mind was put at rest, that I am neither associated with Nine regions nor LBL.

 

I didn't think your decision to forward this independent advice or not, would be based on arguing with you internally, about whether my interpretation of the 7 clear days or yours was correct and whether a BOS has to be attested by a solicitor or not.

 

All I asked for, was that independent advice be passed on so that I can possibly review it and if of relevance, use it in my defence.

 

The fact is BOS's don't need to be attested only by a solicitor, any credidible witness will suffice, the act doesn't stipulate that a lawyer is the only credible witness that can attest a BOS.

 

That aside, It may not have been your intention, but you are being obstructive by not responding to questions asked in good faith in this thread and by not forwarding on the Barrister's advice requested by this bonafide forum member.

 

It is neither fair nor in the spirit of this forum not to help a victim of unlawful repossession by Nine Regions Ltd T/A Log Book Loans, if you have the Barrister's advice at your disposal to help with their unlawful dealings.

 

I am already fighting a business that has millions at its disposal to throw at court hearings, against individuals who are already at a disadvantage,( hence he reason I applied for a loan with them in the first place) without the need to fight internally with another forum member when asking for info to be forwarded on.

 

Allow me the courtesy and opportunity to have my own fight in court with them CCTV, as you were allowed your independent fight with them too in May.

 

I don't want an ongoing dialogue in this forum prior to my hearing date but am happy to assist others once I have had my day in court and you and I can disagree on various legal matters post my hearing date which has already been set down for the next few weeks. Until then, please do the decent thing and forward your Barrister's advice and answer the 8 year point so that I can focus on other matters and you can help others, like you have been doing since last October through this forum. Thanks CCTV

Edited by Hip_Hop

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hip-hop. again you have gone way off track. i have asked you to check parts of letters from lbl i.e company reg numbers you dont know how important doing this is. also you have not got the courts copy of the bill of sale. i am offering you help here. now your bos YOU say it starts from witness. the witness is who ever at mm it could even be a police officer walking passed the shop. but then it has to go to a solicitors office to be sworn (this is law) until then a bill of sale is usless and its the time from the solicitors to the court that has to be 7 days.

 

now a bill of sale as you have seen on here can not be put on anything over 8 years old ........ but this can change if a request is made to the supreme court and this will cost mm money you have to check this.

 

now your court case ........ you do know it will be only to get your car back. (you say a few weeks) that is imposable to get lbl to court over your bill of sale and ca will be 4 to 6 months

 

now if i was you i would see a solicitor if you are going to fight lbl. or even just to look at your problem. i think you are fighting this wrong and its going to cost you 1000s

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

CCTV

 

Again with the general statements CCTV but you don't qualify any of them.

 

"now a bill of sale as you have seen on here can not be put on anything over 8 years old"

 

I see nothing in this thread or elsewhere that explains that - What is the legal authority for that?

 

"now if i was you i would see a solicitor if you are going to fight lbl. or even just to look at your problem. i think you are fighting this wrong and its going to cost you 1000s"

 

What is your problem? I have already stated that you are not me, nor is this your claim. You don't know my defence nor have you seen sight of my claim but you make all kinds of assumptions.

 

Cost 1000's? CCTV my Partner is a lawyer so costs issues are not a problem. You simply assume everything about me and my claim.

 

The only thing I assumed about you is that you might have access to some Barrister's advice, that may be of interest.You are obviously unwilling to pass this on which, is your prerogative and a pity.

 

 

Hip-hop. again you have gone way off track. i have asked you to check parts of letters from lbl i.e company reg numbers you dont know how important doing this is. also you have not got the courts copy of the bill of sale. i am offering you help here. now your bos YOU say it starts from witness. the witness is who ever at mm it could even be a police officer walking passed the shop. but then it has to go to a solicitors office to be sworn (this is law) until then a bill of sale is usless and its the time from the solicitors to the court that has to be 7 days.

 

now a bill of sale as you have seen on here can not be put on anything over 8 years old ........ but this can change if a request is made to the supreme court and this will cost mm money you have to check this.

 

now your court case ........ you do know it will be only to get your car back. (you say a few weeks) that is imposable to get lbl to court over your bill of sale and ca will be 4 to 6 months

 

now if i was you i would see a solicitor if you are going to fight lbl. or even just to look at your problem. i think you are fighting this wrong and its going to cost you 1000s

Edited by Hip_Hop

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

hip-hop. am going to give up. but before i do ..... i have asked you 6 questions about your bill of sale ..... none of which you have taken any notice. company reg numbers / were did you get your bill of sale / are very important. the bos you have posted is not the true bill of sale . and if you go to court with that it will be dismist in minutes. a court will not judge on photo copys.

a true bill of sale has 2 stamps on it ..... 1 black print and 1 purple print stamp. trooper will back this up. and you can only get that from the supreme court.

 

and here is a clue for your lawyer friend (the 8 year rule) cars were not invented when the bill of sale was first wrighten................... and it wasent called a bill of sale. and its writen in old english.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Correct CCTV, the BoS has two but i have seen 3, its usally in the bottom right side and its a SoL's office stamp....

Hip Hop, a poor photocopy is not a good enough for court, the Judge could chuck it out, what you need to do is ask for a "true" copy from the finiance company, you may also request a "true" copy of the CCA, if they sent you them my email its not realy good enough, as s photocopy can be changed....

 

Request this by reg letter, and put in the letter that you consider that the account is in dispute and by letter only no phone calls...you must REG the letter and keep all envolopes...

These guys are slimbags and you must treat them as such that are the lowest of the low (i suspect that they do trawl through the cag pages spewing their vomit all over the place-), so everything must have a timeline, it can make and break a case.

 

 

trooper68


Trooper68:)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

CCTV Engineer and Trooper 68,

 

I have come back from Judgement and Orders Section, Room E15, of the Royal Courts of Justice, Strand, London, WC2A 2LL late yesterday afternoon and wanted to share my experience and factual knowledge with you and the other Caggers on the forum.

 

The clerks were really very helpful. I explained that I needed desperately to obtain copies of the registered BOS and could not wait 2 or more days for it to arrive in the post. To cut a long story short, I was able within half an hour to procure 2 "Office copies" at just £5 each.

 

(What a result in both turnaround in getting these true office copies and all for just £5 a copy.So I have the true BOS Copy and an issuing sealed Claim and with a court date for an initial hearing within 4 weeks of them receiving claim!).

 

The original office copy stamped by the Central Office High Court of Justice of England and Wales. BTW the assumption that I would waste the judges time and mine by turning up at the hearing, with simply unauthorised photocopies was an insult to my intelligence and my partner's. Anyway, .....On with the "office copy" 6 pages consisting of:-

 

an Affidavit on Registration of Bill Of Sale,

 

2 page Bill of Sale,(Same as that copy- in content- as that provided by LBL on request)

 

2 (same) sheets that list "In the High Court of Justice Queens Bench Division Nine Regions Ltd (Lender) -v- Myself (Borrower) Bill Of Sale Name of Solicitor firm.

 

Ref no of agreement

 

and a sheet "This Bill OF Sale between Nine Regions Ltd and Myself is the exhibit marked "A" referred to in the Affidavit of "name of underwriter" made this ...day of....... before me @Solicitor/Commissioner for Oaths (Name and address of law firm but no name of solicitor)

 

There are 2 stamps:- The original Black date stamp "Supreme Court of England and Wales" a red Stamp "Office copy High Court of Justice of England & Wales Central Office"

The red stamp is on all faces (back and front of each page) Affidavit has the original black stamp of the Commissioner of Oaths/Solicitor and a black stamp "Royal Courts of Justice, Transaction no. Fee Code, Operator, Dated and Payment method.

 

The following (in Red) are previous posted comments in this thread by Tom (CCTV Engineer), that to the uninitiated, might appear to be fact but under scrutiny are unfortunately stated in error.

 

Any corrections are following my visit to the Judgement and Orders Section and discussions with the clerks who deal with these matters day in day out, not to score cheap brownie points but so that the same incorrect advice isn't repeated by others to others resulting in Chinese whispers parading as fact, when they are not. I have referenced the correct process/ facts (in Blue) to avoid any potential confusion.

 

 

 

"Hi Hip-hop. you are right a bill of sale is 7 clear days from execution. and a bill of sale is and can only be executed by a solicitor ( so you are looking at the date from solicitor to court)

and NOT from the day you signed the CA."[/color]

 

INCORRECT- I was reliably informed by the clerk of the Judgement and Orders Section that, the Seven Clear Days starts from the date that the Bill of Sale is made and not from the date that a Commissioner of Oaths/Solicitor dates the affidavit when the witness ( In my case, Underwriter) makes an oath that the Bill of Sale etc is a true copy blah blah blah... (which is as I have stated previously).

 

For the avoidance of any doubt,The execution date of the Bill of Sales can only be registered once an Affidavit has been sworn in front of a commissioner of Oaths/Solicitor but the trigger date for the 7 days from execution, is the date of signing (i.e by myself and underwriter which, is the date given as "made the " on the Bill of Sale by the "Borrower"and the witness. NOT THE DATE (as has been suggested by CCTV) that, the witness (Underwriter) takes his affidavit to the Commissioner of Oaths/Solicitor to swear it in front of Commissioner of Oaths/Solicitor

 

"what you have to remember is that its the supreme court that checks the bill of sale before stamping. they are NOT going to stamp out of date bill of sales"

 

INCORRECT MY BILL OF SALE is dated as made on the 30th of June and the date of Affidavit is given as the 8th of the following month!!!... AGAIN, OUTSIDE THE 7 CLEAR DAYS (Hence the reason, I was advised by the clerk, on pressing him on the validity of the bos, that I see the deputy Master to have the Bill Of Sale made void/set aside.(I will give an update on this development on a separate posting).

 

The date that the Supreme Court stamped as receiving the Affidavit and registering the Bill of Sale is the 8th too!!!!!. THE SUPREME COURT STAMPED A BILL OF SALE THAT WAS NOT REGISTERED IN THE PRESCRIBED TIME OF WITHIN 7 CLEAR DAYS!!! (You were saying Tom.... )

 

Please note CCTV This is not a case of who is right or wrong. You were dealt an injustice by these people and you were able to give them a run for their money and have the case against you in May dropped. You didn't (from memory) elaborate on whether you were awarded any additional monetary compensation. I assumed not?

[/color]

 

THEY, (NINE REGIONS/LOG BOOK LOANS), CCTV HAVE MY CAR!!!- OBTAINED UNDER A BILL OF SALE THAT WAS UNLAWFUL!! IT WAS NOT REGISTERED IN THE PRESCRIBED TIME!! IRRESPECTIVE THAT THE SUPREME COURT DECIDED TO STAMP IT!!. I WILL GET MY CAR BACK AND THEY HAVE CONFIRMED IN WRITING NUMEROUS TIMES THAT THEY HAVE NOT SOLD IT BUT IF THEY HAVE, THEY WILL HAVE TO MAKE GOOD/ RESTITUTION/VALUE ETC

 

THE JUDGE WILL NOT LOOK FAVOURABLY ON THEM IF THEY HAVE SUBSEQUENTLY DISPOSED OF IT BY AUCTION, WHILST HAVING GIVEN WRITTEN ASSURANCES, (POST SEALED CLAIM BEING SERVED ON THEM), THAT THEY HAVEN'T.

 

SO CCTV, WILL YOU NOW PM THE BARRISTER'S ADVICE THAT YOU HAVE,OR WILL YOU CONTINUE TO INSIST IT IS CONDITIONAL ON ME JUMPING THROUGH 20 MORE HOOPS (SHOW YOU MORE PROOF, TO SEE IF MY BOS/CASE MATCHES THE ADVICE YOU ARE ALREADY PRIVVY TO, AND ONLY IF IT FITS AND OFFERS A SOLUTION, WILL YOU THEN OFFER IT???

 

OR, WILL YOU LET ME MAKE MY OWN ASSUMPTION OF THE LEGAL MERITS OF USING IT OR NOT?

 

IF THE ADVICE ISN'T RELEVANT, I PROMISE, I WILL NOT USE IT, NOR PASS IT ON TO OTHERS. DEAL???

 

CCTV, I didn't get your cryptic clue of why an 8 year plus vehicle can't have a BOS secured against it. So, in simple English,for the benefit of myself and others, can you clarify this or PM me?

 

Finally-Please remember that most of us have arrived at this forum, because we either feel we have had an injustice done to us,are looking for answers, feel that we have been ill treated, want to advise/help others in a similar plight or want to make sure that the maximum damage is inflicted on those that have looked to exploit us, at any cost.

 

Let's not forget, that the forum is here to offer support and a helping hand where and when required and asked for, not to be used as a stick to hit those who are already dealing with adversity. Let's not forget who the real enemy is and why holding back on sharing advice /solutions/ Barrister's advice, plays into our (LBL etc) enemy's hands......

 

Stayed tuned . I am looking to inflict what will be simply a minor initial nose bleed on Nine Regions Ltd T/A Log Book Loans, but will share everything whenever possible in the pursuit of our common goal. Looking forward to sharing info CCTV and with the rest of you Caggers!!

 

 

QUOTE=cctv engineer;3107855]Hip-hop. again you have gone way off track. i have asked you to check parts of letters from lbl i.e company reg numbers you dont know how important doing this is. also you have not got the courts copy of the bill of sale. i am offering you help here. now your bos YOU say it starts from witness. the witness is who ever at mm it could even be a police officer walking passed the shop. but then it has to go to a solicitors office to be sworn (this is law) until then a bill of sale is usless and its the time from the solicitors to the court that has to be 7 days.

 

now a bill of sale as you have seen on here can not be put on anything over 8 years old ........ but this can change if a request is made to the supreme court and this will cost mm money you have to check this.

 

now your court case ........ you do know it will be only to get your car back. (you say a few weeks) that is imposable to get lbl to court over your bill of sale and ca will be 4 to 6 months

 

now if i was you i would see a solicitor if you are going to fight lbl. or even just to look at your problem. i think you are fighting this wrong and its going to cost you 1000s

Edited by Hip_Hop
edited for legal reasons

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I also went to the Supreme Court on Tuesday to get copies of the BoS that I am being sued over. While I was waiting to be served I was looking thru the ledgers on the table next to me and so many BoS are registered late. Some of them are over a month out of date. Every page I looked at had at least one BoS that was well over 7 days. From memory they called the first date - 'Date of Origination' and the 2nd date 'Date of Registration'

 

The guys working there were really nice althoughthe room was slightly difficutl to find - nevermind trying to get back to the entrance after!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The original office copy stamped by the Central Office High Court of Justice of England and Wales. BTW the assumption that I would waste the judges time and mine by turning up at the hearing, with simply unauthorised photocopies was an insult to my intelligence and my partner's. Anyway, .....On with the "office copy" 6 pages consisting of:-

the bos you first poster did not have the stamps on. and you class it as an insult ........ sorry i class it as good info for you and i think if trooper had not backed me up you would not have known (as you only got your yesterday) 3 days after you posted your copy.

this is how anyone gets a bill of sale lets say you go for one on the 1st of january and the court stamp is 8th january .... that is 8 days this is not true.

you call into which ever office (a bill of sale is void if done in your home or on the side of the road. by lbl or nine regions ltd)

you sign all paperwork on the 1st january and the underwriter (lbl) witneses you signing and put his address. you then leave the shop. your bill of sale is still not complete (its called an open bill of sale) then to underwriter from the shop will collect all the bill of sales for that day and take them to a solicitors office (next day 2nd january) no point them runing to a solicitors everytime he does a bill of sale. he then has to stand and hand each bos to the solicitor while they sign it sworned too and this changes your bill of sale from an open to a closed bill of sale. (cant be changed) then all are sent of to the supream court. and that makes a bill of sale 7 days not 8........ a bill of sale is only active from a solicitors signing. so many people think it is out of date were infact it is not. you need to call the solicitor on your bill of sale to send you a copy of there signing log for the true date.

 

 

you still need to look at who you was paying . and please look at your company reg numbers at the bottom of each letter. much easier to fight.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"sorry i class it as good info for you and i think if trooper had not backed me up you would not have known (as you only got your yesterday) 3 days after you posted your copy."

Wrong again CCTV read the thread and my posting on 29th September:- "I will also personally go to the court and double check what they have filed as part of my due diligence process"

Trooper68 did not make his back up posting until 31st August. Stop muddying the water with wrong assumptions that you post as matter of fact. Check and validate first

As to date of registration I trust the Royal Courts of Justice's advice on when the 7days begins. Obviously affidavit needs to be attached prior to registering the BOS but stop telling everyone that it is the date of the affidavit that construes the start of the 7 clear days process-YOU ARE WRONG! AND HAVE NO LEGAL VALIDATION TO CONTINUE TO QUOTE THE SAME MISINFORMATION-IF YOU HAVE POST IT!

On the 26th August I requested from you the Barrister's advice CCTV........ NOTHING from you

 

I requested that you clarify the 8 year rule NOTHING from you

 

Are you sure you don't work for Log Book Loans as you appear hell bent on being totally obstructive.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I want to get back to the question of the 'thread' as this is a perfectly fair question and is one that many consumers ask once they have secured a declaration that the Bill of Sale is void.............

 

I have pondered on this scenerio for many months and I conclude the following..............

 

The reality is - if the Bill of Sale is void yet it's detail is shown on the original credit agreement - this in my mind renders the agreement 'untrue' and in breach of the CCA 1974 - given that the prescribed terms are that the agreement should not contain any 'implied' terms etc -

 

If you have an agreement that makes reference to a security instrument - when no such document or security exists - then the agreement can only be enforced by a Judge...

 

For a Judge to enforce such a document - there are a few factors that would have to come into play....

 

a) when was the agreement taken out - if it is taken out BEFORE April 2007 - then the Judge would be precluded from amending or rectifying the agreement by virtue of s127 3 & 4

b) have you signed a new agreement without the security showing

c) have you signed a new bill of sale and a new agreement

d) was your agreement entered into after April 2007 - if it was then the Judge now has the right to decide if the agreement can be amended and updated to reflect the new position

 

b) & c) as a consumer it would be foolhearty to sign a new agreement with a lender in such circumstances.....

 

In essence; where an agreement was entered into prior to April 2007 and you have a unenforceable BoS that is detailed in a loan agreement as security - the Judge will argue that whilst the BoS is Void; that the loan is NOT - having said that where the agreement was taken out prior to April 2007 - the Judge has to accept along with the lender that by virtue of s 127 3 & 4 - there is not a thing that either the lender or the court can do to enforce the loan.

 

In fact nine times out of ten; the reality of the situation is that no consumer would ever be in such a situation unless the lender has already enforced the agreement - (ie. teminated it) - where the lenders Bill of Sale is found to be unenforceable in such a circumstance - the lender has to consider if in fact - they are not the ones in breach of their own agreement - and where they have enforced the agreement without an order from the court -(i.e terminated it and/or taken a vehicle - they are definately in breach and this is where the situation changes........

 

'repudiation' kicks in - along with a right to the consumer of restitution - so it becomes an all together different ball game.


[COLOR="red"][B][CENTER]"Errors do not cease to be errors simply because they’re ratified into law.” [/CENTER][/B][/COLOR][B][CENTER] E.A. Bucchianeri[/CENTER][/B]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 Caggers

    No registered users viewing this page.


  • Have we helped you ...?


×
×
  • Create New...