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County Court Claim - Debt not acknowledged for over six years

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Sorry if this isn't the right place, or if I am going over old ground, but I couldn't find a thread that matched my situation exactly. If I am in the wrong place, can someone please direct me? Thanks.

 

I have received a County Court Claim Form today from Cabot Financial relating to a debt with Citigroup that I have had no contact with anyone about for over six years. My limited understanding is that as the debt has not been acknowledged for over six years it should be statute barred and I shouldn't have to pay, but I'm not 100% sure and I'm wondering why Cabot would take this course of action and potentially pick up additional costs if the debt is not enforcable. Any help anyone can offer me would be very much appreciated. I really do not know what to do next and how to respond to this claim.

 

Thanks in advance,

Jon

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maybe post this up in the 'Legal Issues' forum. but yes, it looks as if it is statute barred so you would have a complete defence.


IMO

:-):rant:

 

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You really need them to provide you the details of the account, so you can post a full defence. You never know, they might provide the court with a dodgy statement entry showing a payment. You would then have to question who had made the payment. It is not unknown for companies to make entries on accounts, which are then confused as being payments from the debtor.

 

What you need to do first of all is acknowledge receipt of the claim form and that you will be defending. You can do this by following the instructions on the claims form. Once this is done, you then have 28 days to submit the defence information.

 

Then you need to send Cabot the relevant CPR letter by recorded delivery, which I think would be 31.14, if the particulars of claim shown on the claim form are clear.

 

Dear Sir,

Re: (Claimant's name) v (Your name) Case No:

CPR 31.14 Request

On (date) I received the Claim Form in this case issued by you out of the (Name) County Court.

I confirm having returned my acknowledgement of service to the court in which I indicate my intention to contest all of your claim.

[Prior to the issue of proceedings I had delivered a request for the production of the agreement mentioned in the Claim Form and on which you rely. That request was ignored] [delete if no such request was delivered]

Please treat this letter as my request made under CPR 31.14 for the disclosure and the production of a verified and legible copy of [each of the following / the] document(s) mentioned in your Particulars of Claim:

1 The agreement. You will appreciate that in an ordinary case and by reason of the provisions of CPR PD 16 para 7.3, where a claim is based upon a written agreement, a copy of the contract or documents constituting the agreement should be attached to or served with the particulars of claim and the original(s) should be available at the hearing. Further, that any general conditions incorporated in the contract should also be attached.

2 The assignment*

3 The default notice*

4 The termination notice*

5 [any other documents mentioned in the Particulars of Claim]*

* delete if not mentioned in the Particulars of claim.

[Although your claim is for a sum which is not more than £5,000.00 and will in all likelihood be allocated to the small claims track for determination upon my delivering a defence, at this moment in time I have not delivered my defence and the case has not been allocated to a track. In consequence the provisions of CPR 27(2) are of no effect and you should not seek to avoid compliance with your CPR 31 duties by claiming otherwise]#

# delete if claim for a sum exceeding £5,000.00

You should ensure compliance with your CPR 31 duties and ensure that the document(s) I have requested are copied to and received by me within 7 days of receiving this letter. Your CPR 31 duties extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for the originals of the documents I have requested, the better for you to be able to verify the document's authenticity and to provide me with a legible copy. Further, where I have requested a copy of a document, the original of which is now in the possession of another person, you will have a right to possession of that document if you have mentioned it in your case. You must take immediate steps to recover and preserve it for the purpose of this case.

Where I have mentioned a document and there is in your possession more than one version of that same document owing to a modification, obliteration or other marking or feature, each version will be a separate document and you must provide a copy of each version of it to me. Your obligations extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for any version(s) to include an obligation to recover and preserve such version(s) which are now in the possession of a third party.

In accordance with CPR 31.15© I undertake to be responsible for your reasonable copying costs incurred in complying with this CPR 31.14 request.

If you require more time in which to comply with this request you must tell me in writing. You must tell me before the time for compliance with this request has expired. In telling me you require more time you must tell me what steps you have taken and propose to take in order to comply with this request and also state a date by when you will comply with this request. In addition your statement must be accompanied with a statement that you agree to an extension of the time for me to file my defence. Your extension of time must be not less than 14 days from the date when you say you will have complied with my request and you must state the new date for filing my defence.

If you are unable to comply with this request and believe that you will never be able to comply with this request you must tell me in writing.

Please note that if you should fail to comply with this request, fail to request more time or fail to agree to an extension of time for the filing of my defence, I will make an application to the court for an order that the proceedings be struck out or stayed for non-compliance and a summary costs order.

I do hope this will not be necessary and look forward to hearing from you.

Yours faithfully

 

Print name, don't sign

  • Confused 1

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Thank you. I've seen advice from people to send a £1 postal order. Is that the right advice in this situation?

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There's no need to send £1, because you are asking for the information under the CPR, as Cabot have issued a claim.

 

Did you receive any correspondence, and specifically a Letter Before Action, prior to the Court claim? If not, Cabot have failed to comply with the CPR, which is more ammo for you. However, if the debt is statute barred that's all you'll need. Beware, however, that some unscrupulous DCAs have been known to invent payments to keep debts alive.

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Hi,

as this is a court matter, they have to send you documents that they will be relying on. This costs nothing. Don't send em a penny but do make sure you send the letter by recorded delivery


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Ok, I'll get that letter printed and sent off tomorrow. I'll also use the online thing to register with the county court and say I am contesting it. Thanks all, much appreciated.

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Hello all,

 

I received the following letter yesterday. i'm very worried:

 

We write further to your letter dated 31st August, received in our office on 6th September 2010.

The contents of your letter are noted.

The Claimant was not required to attach a copy of the Credit Agreement to the Claim Form for the reasons detailed at Practice Direction 7C 1.4 (3A). The provision stipulates that, 2the requirement in Paragraph 7.3 of Practice Direction 16 for documents to be attached to the particulars of the contract does not apply to claims to be issued by the Centre, unless the particulars of claim are served separately in accordance with paragraph 5.2 of this practice direction.” Notwithstanding this, we have requested a copy of your Credit Agreement from the Assignor and will forward it to you upon receipt.

Furthermore, your right to documents under CPR, r.31.14 arises as soon as a document concerned is mentioned in either a Statement of Case, Witness Statement, Witness Summary or Affidavit. The words “referred to” in the rules indicate that the right to inspect arises only once a specific reference to a document has been made. Where there is no more than an inference, as opposed to a specific reference, to the existence if a document, we are not bound under CPR, r.31.14 to provide such a document. You are referred to CPR, r.31.14 in that regard. Accordingly, we are not required to provide you with any of the documentation requested in your letter. Of course, should they be in our custody, power, possession or control, we will endeavour to provide you with copies in due course.

We will revert to you shortly.

 

 

 

Can anyone help with what I do next. The original court action letter sent to me was dated 19th August, so 19th August plus 5 days = 24th August plus 28 days = 21st September, so I'm close to time running out.

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If you can post up the particulars of claim shown on the court form this might help people advise.

 

The defence should perhaps just be kept simple i.e. the account concerned is statute barred, no payments having been made for more than 6 years.

 

They would have to provide proof that the account was not SB'd.


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Morning,

Just realised you are in the wrong forum.

I will move this thread over to legal issues where you will get more help


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Everything I say is opinion only. If you are unsure on any comment made, you should see a qualified solicitor

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Subbing


“The industry is rotten to the core, whether it is in-house recovery and collection, or where agents are used, or where the debt has been sold.” Andrew Mackinley MP, House of Commons, 22 April 2009

 

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Hi Jonham

 

Reading between the lines it sounds like they dont have much of a case.

 

Are you able to post the particulars of the claim - If you can not upload them - then maybe simply type them in if they are not to long.

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Hi Jonham

 

Reading between the lines it sounds like they dont have much of a case.

 

Are you able to post the particulars of the claim - If you can not upload them - then maybe simply type them in if they are not to long.

 

Okay, I'll have to get the original court claim letter from home at lunchtime and I'll add the details early afternoon. Thanks all.

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All the advice so far is, as usual, spot on.

 

It would also help if you could accurately pin down the last time you acknowledged the account.

 

This means (a) making a payment or (b) acknowledging in writing that a debt is owed.

 

In this respect, a telephone call/conversation would not amount to acknowledgement.

 

This date is crucial.

 

You might also like to look at your credit record to see when and if the OC issued a default, or alternatively when Cabot first registered the alleged debt. Companies like Cabot have a habit of adding their own dates which are later than the original default. An account can only be defaulted once if it leads to termination or sale, and Cabot have almost certainly bought the account.

 

Have you had, in the past, any notice of assignment from Cabot or any other bottom feeder?

 

Another possible step is to send a subject access request to Citigroup to find out exactly when the debt was defaulted, and to whom and when it was sold. However, this will not be done in time for your defence.

 

Look forward to seeing the particulars of claim. A Part 18 request may be required, as this can request any documents they intend to rely on in court.

 

If they are taking legal action in the knowledge that the debt is statute barred, then it will be time for a complaint to the OFT and your local trading standards. The important thing now is to collect the facts and build your defence.

Edited by DonkeyB

“The industry is rotten to the core, whether it is in-house recovery and collection, or where agents are used, or where the debt has been sold.” Andrew Mackinley MP, House of Commons, 22 April 2009

 

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What is the amount involved - is it under £5k or more? Getting a defence in, depending on the circumstances, may allow you to go after them for costs. That would be rather poetic.


“The industry is rotten to the core, whether it is in-house recovery and collection, or where agents are used, or where the debt has been sold.” Andrew Mackinley MP, House of Commons, 22 April 2009

 

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Anyone who has any dealing with Citi will know how diligently the maintain their paperwork:deadhorse:


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Sorry for the delay in posting this info, things were too busy at work for me to drive home for the claim form.

 

Anyway, the Particulars of Claim on the County Court paperwork read as follows:

 

The Claimant is the Asignee of a Debt(s) from Citigroup International plc

Citi Visa reference ******

Notice of Assignment having been given to the Defendant in Writing. Despite demand for Payment, 2344.85 remains due. The Claimant claims 2499.85 and interest under s.69 County Courts Act 1984 and costs.

 

I have not acknowledged this debt since 2002 or 2003, I can't be sure of an exact date.

 

Any further help on what I should do next would be very much appreciated. Thanks for everything so far.

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Can anyone help with what I should do next?

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As long as you have AoS and defended and sent a CPR request there is nothing else to do until its time to submit a defence.

 

Regards

 

Andy


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Morning,

Until someone comes along with the relevant knowledge (not me :roll:) you would be best to do a little research. Have a look here for starters:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?241827-Legal-Action-how-to-start-off.-IMPORTANT-IF-YOURE-BEING-SUED&highlight

 

I do have to say those POC's are pretty vague


If you are asked to deal with any matter via private message, PLEASE report it.

Everything I say is opinion only. If you are unsure on any comment made, you should see a qualified solicitor

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That poc is crap

 

is it a regulated agreement under the cca 1974 or what

 

the judge will prob throw that out but get an embarrassed defence in

 

if you need help, ill do it for you

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What stage are you at in this claim

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Have a read of PT2537’s brilliant thread, here:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?255329

 

I think a Part 18 request is in order, but you should be doing the SAR to the OC as well.


“The industry is rotten to the core, whether it is in-house recovery and collection, or where agents are used, or where the debt has been sold.” Andrew Mackinley MP, House of Commons, 22 April 2009

 

If a Cagger helps you, click their star. Better still, make a donation however small, so that CAG can continue to help others.

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Did you ever actually receive a notice of assignment or any pre-action letters?


“The industry is rotten to the core, whether it is in-house recovery and collection, or where agents are used, or where the debt has been sold.” Andrew Mackinley MP, House of Commons, 22 April 2009

 

If a Cagger helps you, click their star. Better still, make a donation however small, so that CAG can continue to help others.

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Received Count Court Claim Today / Capquest/CAP ONE Alternative approach Jon if you are sure its SB.

 

Regards

 

Andy


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