One minute observation period!!

[berry13]

OK, so this one should be clear cut. I had been parking in a bay, and had paid for the pleasure. I subsequently returned to my car and moved it up the road to get closer to the restaurant in which my friends were eating.

I parked up and, having no change for the machine, ran inside the restaurant to get some from my friends. I returned to my car, no longer that one minute later, to find the CEO posting a ticket on my screen!! The observation period runs from, wait for it, 13.12 - 13.13. She refused to answer me while I questioned her and walked off at pace.

 

Is this legit?! Is she trying to fill her quota before the end of the month? Do I have a leg to stand on here? I think this is bang out of order, no?!

 

Cheers all.

[stuscfc1883]

yep clearly bang out of order, but in all honesty, do you think that anyone who willingly wants to be a ticket giver has any integrity? i'm guessing those in the know will tell you to ignore it . . . i love this site, can't tell enough people about it . . .

[berry13]

I totally agree with the fact that they have no integrity however, as this is a PCN and not a private company ticket, I feel ignoring it would only cause more issues!

My main question is how do I go about appealing to the council?

 

Thank you!!

[Zamzara]

You cannot ignore a council ticket. You can try appealing to their better nature with an informal appeal, but assuming your previous ticket wasn't still valid you will then have to choose to either pay or find a procedural error.

 

Post up the PCN as it may have errors.

[Jamberson]

If we are to understand the situation, we'll need more info:

 

Did you initially use a p&d ticket for parking?

Was the bay you were in when the PCN was served, also a p&d bay?

If so, had your p&d ticket expired by then?

 

If not, what sort of bay was it, and what is the code/description of the contravention stated on the PCN?

[Bernie_the_Bolt]

If you do appeal, make no mention of going for change. Simply say that you went to pay for and get a ticket. In the short period of time it took the CEO issued a PCN.

 

You are expected to have appropriate change to pay when you park.

[green_and_mean]

OK, so this one should be clear cut. I had been parking in a bay, and had paid for the pleasure. I subsequently returned to my car and moved it up the road to get closer to the restaurant in which my friends were eating.

I parked up and, having no change for the machine, ran inside the restaurant to get some from my friends. I returned to my car, no longer that one minute later, to find the CEO posting a ticket on my screen!! The observation period runs from, wait for it, 13.12 - 13.13. She refused to answer me while I questioned her and walked off at pace.

 

Is this legit?! Is she trying to fill her quota before the end of the month? Do I have a leg to stand on here? I think this is bang out of order, no?!

 

Cheers all.

 

Its a pay and display bay you had not paid or displayed or was not at the machine attempting to pay, so why is she 'bang out of order'? You obviously knew you were going to repark common sense would mean checking you had change before you went back to the car. You parked in a pay and display bay without making payment so she issued a PCN that is what they are employed to do.

[dragonkeeper]

 

Its a pay and display bay you had not paid or displayed or was not at the machine attempting to pay, so why is she 'bang out of order'? You obviously knew you were going to repark common sense would mean checking you had change before you went back to the car. You parked in a pay and display bay without making payment so she issued a PCN that is what they are employed to do.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

dk

[berry13]

Its a pay and display bay you had not paid or displayed or was not at the machine attempting to pay, so why is she 'bang out of order'? You obviously knew you were going to repark common sense would mean checking you had change before you went back to the car. You parked in a pay and display bay without making payment so she issued a PCN that is what they are employed to do.

 

Ok so firstly, my original plan was to drive back to my office, however on the way to my car I was asked to pop back to the restaurant to pick one of my colleagues up. Therefore, I had not prepared change for this event. Common sense had nothing to do with it.

Secondly, if we're discussing common sense, would it not be reasonable for a CEO to wait for a period longer than 40 seconds before issuing a ticket? How on earth does she know that I'm not at a machine at that time purchasing a ticket?

The fact that I went for change is, in this case, irrelevant. What is important is the observation period of 1 minute.

Lastly, I didn't realise CEO's were employed? I thought they were spawned? Learn something new every day!

 

I have included a copy of the ticket for those of you who are looking to assist. And I will explain in greater detail below the events leading up to the PCN.

 

I had gone to Nando's for lunch with my colleagues (half chicken, extra hot ) and had paid to stay for 30 mins in a pay and display bay (at 12.36).

I finished my meal and went to my car, just after 13.00, at which time I received a call from my colleague, asking if I actualy give them a lift back to work (as the people they had originally opted to get a lift back with had decided to go to the pub for a beer). I agreed and got in my car, and drove a short distance to ensure I was closer to the restaurant. At this point I realised I had no change, called my colleague to ask how long he would be until he finished his meal. He said he would be about 10 mins, but he had some change so I should nip in quickly and get it, which I did.

 

So to answer your questions Zamzara;

I was originally in a P&D bay.

I had subsequently parked in a P&D bay.

The ticket I had in my car had expired.

 

Thanks everyone for your help and wise words, even you Green and Mean.

 

Glenn

ticket.pdf

[Bernie_the_Bolt]

The fact that I went for change is, in this case, irrelevant.

 

Don't get me wrong I totally sympathise with you on this.

 

It is important that you understand the system. The system does not allow you time for change. All that a CEO requires is "reasonable grounds to believe" to issue a PCN. In your case it is quite possible that these could have be formed within a minute.

 

If you mention "going for change" at any stage you will be sunk. This is well established by adjudicators. Simply say that you went to pay for parking. The observation period may well support you on this. If the CEO recorded that they saw you going for change then that will be bad luck but you won't have lied.

[berry13]

Thanks Bernie, I appreciate the clarification.

 

I was unaware that this was the case and although I think its terrible that you aren't allowed to get change, if those are the rules, those are the rules.

 

I guess I should just hope there is an error on the PCN...

[green_and_mean]

Its not exactly hard to know if you were buying a ticket a simple check of the machine would show that! However the PCN is for an expired ticket so the PCN was issued because your original ticket had expired so there is no need to wait before issuing a PCN.

[berry13]

Noted, however that ticket was only on my dashboard as I hadn't thought to take it off, I hadn't put it there for that parking session, it was from a previous one.

Granted, there is no way that the CEO could have known this, but I always believed they were supposed to err on the side of caution.

 

I'm guessing what I've heard about 'grace periods' and 'reasonable observation' is at the discretion of the CEO.

Still not happy, as I genuinely did try to p&d to the best of my ability, but as I said, I'm hoping for a technicality/procedural impropriety now....

[Zamzara]

Can you post the back of the PCN as well?

[berry13]

Done, thanks Zamzara

ticketback.pdf

[Jamberson]

I was originally in a P&D bay.

I had subsequently parked in a P&D bay.

The ticket I had in my car had expired.

 

 

What I think happened was that the CEO saw the expired ticket and assumed that the car had been parked there since the start. In other words, he/she viewed the situation as an overstay, for which no observation time is given.

 

They were wrong about that, and you can likely prove it, which may or may not help your appeal. It depends on the conditions attached to the bay. Is it time limited - ie, is there a maximum stay (say, 2 hours) permitted? And is bay 2 the same class, ie the same regulations, fees etc as bay 1?

[Zamzara]

The PCN looks valid, and Riley v Hunt is the authority that you cannot have time to get change.

 

You could try an informal appeal to their better nature, and maybe check the bay markings?