Shoplifting, fixed penalty notice , my future ....different sites, different information

[pricey123]

Hello everyone. I browsed this site earlier in the week in search of accurate information and this seems to be one site where there's a lot of good, researched, advice....so I'm hoping you can help me.

 

Firstly, I make no excuses for what I did .....a few months ago I took an item (some makeup) which I did not pay for from Morrisons....similar story to one posted by a lady with a bag hung on her arm from M & S. In Morrisons, they have little bags for you to put lipsticks and eyeliner in etc., so that it doesn't slip through the holes in the shopping basket ...... Difference is, when I got to the checkout, I did realise that the bag was not visible by the counter assistant, and just placed the rest of my goods on the conveyor belt. I did think to myself at the time that I was being very stupid and reckless, but continued on anyway (had just lost my job the month before and money was tight).

Needless to say, I was stopped and taken to the security office. They then called the police station and an officer was despatched who asked for my details and some identification (which I provided). He then handcuffed me and escorted me to a waiting police car. This was mortifying as it was my local store and I was terrified a neighbour or friend would walk past .... whilst in the car, the officer explained that I would be finger printed and my dna taken, and I would be processed and prosecuted in court.

On arrival at the police station, the officer removed my handcuffs and spoke with the custody sergeant who advised the officer that as the goods were worth less than £40, it was a fixed penalty notice event.

The officer then took me to a private room and advised me that I was being "de-arrested". I had to state what had happened (he wrote this in his little black book and asked me to sign the bottom of the last page). I was then given a fixed penalty notice for £80 which I immediately paid. I then got a £110 charge from RPL (and immediately paid it). The security woman in Morrisons advised me that I was now banned from all Morrisons stores... I haven't been into the local one since, although my husband is wondering why I suddenly changed supermarkets, but I have been in a different Morrisons in another part of the country...how do they enforce these lifetime bans ?

At the end of this (sorry for going on ......) I just wondered in what capacity this will now affect future employment ? I have applied for several jobs which state either crb check or enhanced crb check, and I had also been looking into becoming a foster parent. None of my family or friends know anything about this ...I was too ashamed and disgusted with myself to even try to admit or explain.....any advice would be gratefully received......

[dx100uk]

you shouldn't of paid the RPL bit as you've prob guesses by reading threads here.

its a [problem] and the 'store' sees none of the money.

 

as for the CRB, i'm not aware that FPN's were issued! for theft, however, if you were not formerly charged then you should be ok.

 

notr eally my scene.

 

dx

[papasmurf1cx]

Being "De arrested" is a formal Police and Criminal Evidence Act (PACE) procedure that stops the process of arrest and the things that happen after an arrest ie fingerprints photograph and DNA. The fact that you were then issued a FPN for this does suggest that you do not have a criminal record as the record is made from the fingerprints. Fingerprints are taken at different stages of the criminal justice process to ensure that the person arrested is the one that is actually incarcerated in prison after sentence. Think of the FPN as a driving FPN. There will obviously be a record somewhere but not a criminal record, therefore CRB checks should be in the clear.

 

Now when you fill in forms for employers / insurance etc you must look at the wording very carefully. Is the question "Have you ever been CONVICTED of a criminal offence" then the answer is NO as a conviction happens in a court not a police station. If the question is "Have you ever been ARRESTED for a criminal offence" then the answer is YES.

 

Personally I would tell your husband. The support of family is often crucial in times of stress like this. Lies and deceit often lead to more lies and deceit and get one into more hot water.

 

Not sure how bans are enforced nationwide but suspect that you would end up paying more money for breaching it. I would be interested to know how this works too.

[Huff&Puff]

If the question is "Have you ever been ARRESTED for a criminal offence" then the answer is YES.

 

I would have thought that as the OP was formally de-arrested, she could legitimately answer no to the question.

 

As for the nationwide ban, I'm sure it all sounds very impressive, but I think in the real world such things are pretty much unenforceable, and I don't see any practical way of identifying you in any other branch other than the one you were stopped in. Even if you were, I don't think they would do much beyond asking you to leave.

[papasmurf1cx]

Hey Huff&Puff........... I was wondering about how these companies can enforce a nationwide ban and years ago that would not be possible. However now in the digital age and face recognition technology I was also wondering if this was the method companies now use or are in the process of using.

 

Does anyone know? What is the method if any that they can enforce bans of entering their stores?

[Huff&Puff]

I suppose facial recognition may be a possibility at some point in the future, but at he moment it's been a complete disaster very time it has been seriously tried. Even with the financial backing of governments they cannot get it to work properly, and from what I hear they are a very long way from solving the problems with it.

 

Do they take a photo when they take the details of the alleged offender? If they do, I wonder if there are grounds for refusal?

[JonCris]

Hey Huff&Puff........... I was wondering about how these companies can enforce a nationwide ban and years ago that would not be possible. However now in the digital age and face recognition technology I was also wondering if this was the method companies now use or are in the process of using.

 

Does anyone know? What is the method if any that they can enforce bans of entering their stores?

 

As the cost has greatly reduced some are using facial recognition & others are rolling it out. As to its reliability who knows until its been tried. In the meantime I look forward to the inevitable result of its use namely a retailer being sued for mistaken identity(s) resulting in amongst others false arrest, assault, kidnap, false imprisonment, defamation

[wheelergeezer]

Nationwide bans are usually done by way of a photograph of any one they wish to ban. When I was a store detective at B&Q we had an entire wall in the security office of people to watch out for. On occasions one would get spotted and they would simply be escorted off the premises. The shop can ban anyone they do not wish to serve.

[JonCris]

Pricey for the avoidance of any doubt a FPN is NOT an admission of guilt nor can it be used/disclosed in any subsequent proceedings civil OR criminal

 

The CA says so in

Regina v Hamer

[2010] WLR (D) 235

[sameagle]

You could try a Burka !

[bigegg]

Pricey for the avoidance of any doubt a FPN is NOT an admission of guilt nor can it be used/disclosed in any subsequent proceedings civil OR criminal

 

The CA says so in

Regina v Hamer

[2010] WLR (D) 235

 

I'm gonna have a closer look, later, but:

how does this stand when disclsosing, say, FPNs for speeding when applying for car insurance?

[JonCris]

I'm gonna have a closer look, later, but:

how does this stand when disclsosing, say, FPNs for speeding when applying for car insurance?

 

If as often happens an insurer asks if you have been 'convicted' of any motoring offence the answer is no An FPN is not a conviction or even admission of guilt